Cyber truck

[Foxy100]

I'm not anti-EV, but I do wonder where we're going with all this.

The focus seems to be on building bigger cars with more performance and tech, which is fine if we all live a lease/PCP utopia where we can just swap to a new car every 3 years, but eventually the 'older' cars will start to develop problems and some poor soul will be left to foot the bill. I can't imagine how much maintenance costs will be to keep all the tech functioning on a modern EV or hybrid. Car manufacturers are going to be laughing all the way to the bank.

Why didn't manufacturers invest their billions into developing alternative fuels for existing cars? Coryton have developed a plant based alternative fuel for existing engines, reducing emissions by 65%, so it is possible. Maybe that could be improved further with more development/investment, but instead the response from the big players has been 'Nah...look at the shiny, shiny!' Sad times.

For me, EVs have their place in city centres providing the car is small, think BMW i3 at the very biggest. We don't need 2.8-ton EVs that can hit 60 in under 3 seconds in city centres (or for that matter anywhere else), mixing with people or sharing roads with bikes. The sooner these ridiculous things are taxed out of towns and cities the better.

The biggest issue (not I think a lack of charging) at the moment is the fear of the secondhand market. Somewhere north of 90% of new cars are leased, with the price set based on how the market usually reacts. For years it's been pretty safe but the advent of EVs has caused some problems. There was a story in Autocar not so long ago about a journalist's own EV (Cupra Born IIRC) lease coming to an end and it being worth something like £10k less than predicted at the start of the lease, all of which is the lease company's to absorb. Which will start to cause big problems if lease companies increase prices because they struggle to sell used cars at the end of leases. If your £300 per month car suddenly becomes a £400 per month car it takes it into new territory. There was a horror story of BMW quoting £30k to replace an i3's battery, while it sounds like you can get it done independently for £10k. Once it gets down to £3k, say, to do the same thing, and if other EV parts replacement costs are sensible, we'll start to see confidence grow.

The best solution is a small, lightweight car with a small ICE engine, running on biofuel, with a turbocharger or other forced induction and a small, lightweight hybrid system. Unfortunately the money isn't in it for traditional brands, with the likes of Mercedes, BMW and so on presumably going premium and leaving the lower end of the market to the Chinese, who, as I said earlier, are probably going to start flooding the market with cheap large EV SUVs laden with technology. Where the electricity is going to come from is anyone's guess.

[cyrusir]

For me, EVs have their place in city centres providing the car is small, think BMW i3 at the very biggest. We don't need 2.8-ton EVs that can hit 60 in under 3 seconds in city centres (or for that matter anywhere else), mixing with people or sharing roads with bikes. The sooner these ridiculous things are taxed out of towns and cities the better.

The biggest issue (not I think a lack of charging) at the moment is the fear of the secondhand market. Somewhere north of 90% of new cars are leased, with the price set based on how the market usually reacts. For years it's been pretty safe but the advent of EVs has caused some problems. There was a story in Autocar not so long ago about a journalist's own EV (Cupra Born IIRC) lease coming to an end and it being worth something like £10k less than predicted at the start of the lease, all of which is the lease company's to absorb. Which will start to cause big problems if lease companies increase prices because they struggle to sell used cars at the end of leases. If your £300 per month car suddenly becomes a £400 per month car it takes it into new territory. There was a horror story of BMW quoting £30k to replace an i3's battery, while it sounds like you can get it done independently for £10k. Once it gets down to £3k, say, to do the same thing, and if other EV parts replacement costs are sensible, we'll start to see confidence grow.

The best solution is a small, lightweight car with a small ICE engine, running on biofuel, with a turbocharger or other forced induction and a small, lightweight hybrid system. Unfortunately the money isn't in it for traditional brands, with the likes of Mercedes, BMW and so on presumably going premium and leaving the lower end of the market to the Chinese, who, as I said earlier, are probably going to start flooding the market with cheap large EV SUVs laden with technology. Where the electricity is going to come from is anyone's guess.

I3 battery pack is 42kwh, if that size battery is available for 3k im all in, ill use it to store cheap night rate electricity and run my house. I dont see that for a while though. The cost of EV battery replacement is a common scare tactic, the number of ev batterys that require replacement isnt that high though, tends to be under warranty and id guess is way less than the incidence of ice engines that require replacing.

[Foxy100]

I3 battery pack is 42kwh, if that size battery is available for 3k im all in, ill use it to store cheap night rate electricity and run my house. I dont see that for a while though. The cost of EV battery replacement is a common scare tactic, the number of ev batterys that require replacement isnt that high though, tends to be under warranty and id guess is way less than the incidence of ice engines that require replacing.

Sounds like a great idea. If development, technology and recycling proceeds at the rates they need to with all new cars due to be EVs it's quite possible it will happen. We may well need to be able to store our own electricity by then anyway. While it's all new and no one knows what will happen when a current EV hits 10 years' old, how many people will take a punt at buying a three- or four-year-old used EV that may be out (or nearing being out) of warranty, with an unknown depreciation curve? How many people in the same situation would look at a new lease or a used ICE?

[Dave+63]

I3 battery pack is 42kwh, if that size battery is available for 3k im all in, ill use it to store cheap night rate electricity and run my house. I dont see that for a while though. The cost of EV battery replacement is a common scare tactic, the number of ev batterys that require replacement isnt that high though, tends to be under warranty and id guess is way less than the incidence of ice engines that require replacing.

The i3 initially had a 22kwhr battery (60ah), then 33kwhr (90ah) and now the 42kwhr (120ah). The earlier, smaller battery models also had the option of a small range extender.

WRT maintenance costs, the drive train is much simpler than ICE so much cheaper to maintain. Everything else is the same as ICE so applies to all cars equally. And yes, pop out door handles seem as silly to me as Audi’s cameras for rear view mirrors with the screens mounted in a stupid place.

[Dave+63]

That Autocar article is over 12 months old and at a time when there was a significant correction in used car values as a whole. Again, not an EV specific occurrence.

[Foxy100]

That Autocar article is over 12 months old and at a time when there was a significant correction in used car values as a whole. Again, not an EV specific occurrence.

So it is, I hadn't noticed the 3 instead of 4. Here's one from last month:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/b...king-ev-values

"The crumbling values of electric cars pushed rental company Hertz to a loss last quarter, caused the collapse of UK EV provider Onto in September and dented the 2023 bottom line of one Europe’s largest leasing companies after it made a loss on EV disposals.
Stable used car values have become critical to new car sales in that they determine finance costs, so the continued weakness in EV prices is also hurting car companies as they look to increase the percentage of zero-emission cars they sell.





Those car companies are now torn. They either boost demand for pricier EVs by slashing prices, which would shred used values. Or they shore up those values by holding firm on pricing, losing them customers."

[Foxy100]

Ooof, What Car? this month did a feature on the fastest depreciating cars and in first place, the Mokka EV retained 27.9% of its value over three years, the DS E-Tense EV retains 28.5%, in third the Corsa Electric is on 30.2%, fourth the Leaf is on 30.5% and the Zoe is fifth on 30.6%.

[ryanb741]

Why would the size of an EV matter? Is an ICE SUV more acceptable than an electric one?

I'd never go back to ICE, a Tesla is just a far more pleasant and hassle free car to drive.

[Dave+63]

EV prices do need to stabilise and RRPs fall more into line with ICE, I can’t argue with that. That lease companies are facing challenges in coping with the changes is probably a relatively short term thing.

Either new EV prices will fall and lease companies take a short term hit or they can increase the cost of leases for the consumer and possibly lose business but that’s a business decision for them to make and not the fault of EVs per se.

Whilst there is so much EV bashing in the media, buyers are certainly going to have less confidence in them and therefore depreciation will continue to be high, again hardly the fault of EVs per se.

The great thing about the market at the present time is that we have so much choice; you can choose to look at EVs or continue with ICE as you intend to. Personally, I don’t do enough miles in my car to warrant changing it, it’s a 14 year old 3.0l diesel so not worth much. Id like a Polestar 2 but really can’t justify having a £20k car on the drive which doesn’t get used as much as it should. If values continue to plummet though, I may just be tempted at £10k.

Edit : Finance companies have got it wrong before and survived; in 2017/18 lots of Nissan Leaf owners who’d bought on PCP deals were handing the card back because the balloon payment was substantially higher than the value of the car.

[RobDad]

So much wailing and gnashing of teeth over EV’s in the press of late, and so much negativity. Meanwhile I’ve been quietly driving mine on the daily 15 mile each way commute since early December, park it on the drive every night and every 2 or 3 days charge it whilst I sleep on Octopus and my daily commute is costing me £3.50 a week. It’s so easy to drive when I’m bleary eyed in the morning,
Heats up fast and is a nice quiet place to sit. It’s just a car now, albeit quieter and cheaper to run. I genuinely don’t understand all the hate and people getting their knickers in a twist tbh. If I didn’t have a drive to charge it or had a 250 mile return commute every day I’d drive an ICE car - probably a
Diesel with all the associated issues with mass flywheels and euro 6 this and that - but for me the EV is perfect. It’s just a car, and having spent nearly 40 years driving cars where technology has almost stood still, it’s nice that something different has come along. The world seems to be turning into a Bladerunner set and it’s kicking off everywhere. Not sure why a quiet car that runs on electricity is quite so annoying?!?

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Not sure why a quiet car that runs on electricity is quite so annoying?!?

It's not the car that is annoying. (not a jibe at you BTW).

[Tifa]

...... I’ve been quietly driving mine on the daily 15 mile each way commute since early December, park it on the drive every night and every 2 or 3 days charge it whilst I sleep on Octopus and my daily commute is costing me £3.50 a week.......

Nailed it.
This is what EV's are all about.
For anything else, particularly long distance, pretty much useless.

[RobDad]

Nailed it.
This is what EV's are all about.
For anything else, particularly long distance, pretty much useless.

I partially agree - but after all that’s the sort of journey an extremely large proportion of drivers undertake 99% of the time. And probably the most polluting type of ICE driving. It’s also nice to have instant heat and performance over short distances like my commute. I’m not sure why they’re useless over long distances though? I’d certainly plan my route a little in advance, but I suspect it would be well worth the savings in fuel costs alone over say a 200 mile each way journey - the first leg very cheap, the second would require 40 mins charging. A bit of a faff, yes - but useless? - it just requires a different mindset.
Lots of people seem to have decided against EV’s and I’ve no idea why. I find myself looking at new luxury or mid range petrol, diesel and hybrid cars and thinking why on earth did you choose that? - the only reason I’d go back is if I didn’t have a drive to charge it on, or I wanted a cheap runaround. Or I commuted to Aberdeen and back every day.

[Tooks]

Nailed it.
This is what EV's are all about.
For anything else, particularly long distance, pretty much useless.

I guess it depends on what you’re terming long distance, and what EV you’re trying to do it in, but I use mine every week for a 400 mile round trip, albeit with an overnight before the return journey.

Several times a year I do 500+ miles in a day though, which is a 10+ hour trip in whatever car I’ve done it in.

Most of the time though it’s just a car that’s always ready to go and i use it like any car I ever have.

[Dave+63]

Nailed it.
This is what EV's are all about.
For anything else, particularly long distance, pretty much useless.

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll have to let my brother know, he drives all over the country in his Tesla.

[Daveya.]

I don't think EVS are bad, they are lovely to drive. I just think they are very poor value for money

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[Dave+63]

I don't think EVS are bad, they are lovely to drive. I just think they are very poor value for money

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Even though the cost of ownership is lower than an ICE when running costs are taken into consideration?

And people are now moaning about depreciation so buying a nearly new EV is cheaper than ever?

[Daveya.]

Even though the cost of ownership is lower than an ICE when running costs are taken into consideration?

And people are now moaning about depreciation so buying a nearly new EV is cheaper than ever?

That depends entirely on how many miles you do, as Toyota have constantly pointed out, you have to do a lot of miles and using AA data on the average UK commute they claim 91% of car owners will not recoup the increased cost of this EV.

I will buy an EV at some point , some of them are fantastic, the smaller ones in particular, just not yet. Happy with a Hybrid, have a Corolla and a Yaris

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[cyrusir]

That depends entirely on how many miles you do, as Toyota have constantly pointed out, you have to do a lot of miles and using AA data on the average UK commute they claim 91% of car owners will not recoup the increased cost of this EV.

I will buy an EV at some point , some of them are fantastic, the smaller ones in particular, just not yet. Happy with a Hybrid, have a Corolla and a Yaris

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sorry but can we dig into this a bit, what two cars are toyota comparing when they make this statement?

[Daveya.]

sorry but can we dig into this a bit, what two cars are toyota comparing when they make this statement?

No idea, tbh I read it two years ago when I changed the car again and couldn't find an EV that made sense financially

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[Saint-Just]

I don't think EVS are bad, they are lovely to drive. I just think they are very poor value for money

That can very well be the case for you. It seems to me that those who own one wholeheartedly disagree.
It all boils down to what you expect from a car. If it's aimed at taking you from A to B anything beyond a Dacia is poor value for money.

There are legitimate questions about how the situation will evolve. The insurance market and how it will move is one, and how the government will make up the tax deficit on what he used to make from petrol is another. On a personal level, how you can access cheap charging is a very valid consideration: living in a flat without access to power on your parking space is likely to make the choice for you.

But VFM? Again, the market will decide, and at the moment it seems it is going in a way that should please you.

[Daveya.]

That can very well be the case for you. It seems to me that those who own one wholeheartedly disagree.
It all boils down to what you expect from a car. If it's aimed at taking you from A to B anything beyond a Dacia is poor value for money.

There are legitimate questions about how the situation will evolve. The insurance market and how it will move is one, and how the government will make up the tax deficit on what he used to make from petrol is another. On a personal level, how you can access cheap charging is a very valid consideration: living in a flat without access to power on your parking space is likely to make the choice for you.

But VFM? Again, the market will decide, and at the moment it seems it is going in a way that should please you.

Well yes they would, wouldn't they, but we all have different financial situations.

If I did more miles an EV would make sense and I'd buy one, but I don't, it's not a controversial opinion

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[Saint-Just]

Well yes they would, wouldn't they, but we all have different financial situations.

If I did more miles an EV would make sense and I'd buy one, but I don't, it's not a controversial opinion

I don't think they would say that if it was not the case: Quite the opposite, I'd say as they would be very vocal about the EV thing being a con. I think they looked at their circumstances and made their choice; they're coming on the thread to say it worked for them.
Your opinion is not controversial when you say it doesn't make sense for you.

It is more so when you attack EVs in general when you say they are poor value for money. I personally do not "get" the existence of hybrids (as opposed to plug-in hybrids), as I doubt using petrol to charge the battery that will drive your vehicle a few miles is energy efficient, but for city centre use it can be an advantage. It also seems that they can have expensive issues, just like many ICE cars.

Anyway, this is the debate on another thread, this one is about the cyber truck and my opinion is that it is rather shit.

[Daveya.]

I don't think they would say that if it was not the case: Quite the opposite, I'd say as they would be very vocal about the EV thing being a con. I think they looked at their circumstances and made their choice; they're coming on the thread to say it worked for them.
Your opinion is not controversial when you say it doesn't make sense for you.

It is more so when you attack EVs in general when you say they are poor value for money. I personally do not "get" the existence of hybrids (as opposed to plug-in hybrids), as I doubt using petrol to charge the battery that will drive your vehicle a few miles is energy efficient, but for city centre use it can be an advantage. It also seems that they can have expensive issues, just like many ICE cars.

Anyway, this is the debate on another thread, this one is about the cyber truck and my opinion is that it is rather shit.

Well it's just an opinion. And rather emotive to call it an 'attack'. I've said I like EVs and will buy one, when the price for hybrids and EVs start to equalise and make financial sense. I'm not against EVs, just against the price they are right now in the UK. They will make sense at some point

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[Dave+63]

From April 2025 Marc, all EVs (not just new ones) will be charged RFL at the same rate as ICE of the same age. Pre 2017 will move into the lowest chargeable band (used to be £20 along with some small ICE) whilst later cars will be the same as ICE (started at £140 a year, I think it’s about £170 now).

My 2015 van goes from £0 to £295 from April next year!

[Daveya.]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...h=4579757d4621

Not everyone agrees, but they will have a new EV range in another 3 years, whether they will be cheap enough to make sense for me and many UK drivers is under review . I'll probably get one as car up in 3 years, dunno

Maybe Toyota are wrong , but a hybrid Yaris top of the range is 28k, which admittedly is same price as base Nissan Leaf, so I accept the price difference is starting to equate

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[Foxy100]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterly...h=4579757d4621

Not everyone agrees, but they will have a new EV range in another 3 years, whether they will be cheap enough to make sense for me and many UK drivers is under review . I'll probably get one as car up in 3 years, dunno

Maybe Toyota are wrong , but a hybrid Yaris top of the range is 28k, which admittedly is same price as base Nissan Leaf, so I accept the price difference is starting to equate

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I wonder if Toyota have been hedging their bets. Lots of the world isn't set up for EV use and will I assume continue with ICE while the fuel and cars are still available.

I was in St Lucia in February and almost every car there was a Toyota, it really is the brand of choice at every price range. I did think the place would be ideal for producing bio fuel too, huge amounts of land covered in wild vegetation that grows very quickly, lots of sun and wind and surrounded by wave power too.

[Daveya.]

I don't buy a car with any reference to the environment tbh, I buy what I like with a nod to value


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[Passenger]

I don't buy a car with any reference to the environment tbh, I buy what I like with a nod to value


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You are not alone, we can't / won't change, we are what/ where we are.

[Daveya.]

You are not alone, we can't / won't change, we are what/ where we are.

Indeed, I recycle and do the usual things, wife won't buy single use plastics etc but I haven't yet moved to spending more on a car for environmental reasons, not when I'm funding a son at University.

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[Dave+63]

I wouldn’t take what Toyota say too seriously, they nailed their flag to the Hybrid and hydrogen flags a while ago and are struggling to eat the humble pie.

[Daveya.]

I wouldn’t take what Toyota say too seriously, they nailed their flag to the Hybrid and hydrogen flags a while ago and are struggling to eat the humble pie.

I suspect you may be right, they had a point and have made superb hybrids for a long time and got in early. Are they too late to full EVs maybe, as I've already acknowledged.

Simple fact is hybrids still make sense for most/many drivers in the UK, depends on mileage.



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[Dave+63]

Simple fact is hybrids still make sense for most/many drivers in the UK, depends on mileage.

Everything makes sense to someone, my personal opinion is that basic hybrids are a bit of a con and over complicated. Plug in hybrids are equally complicated but with larger batteries can work for many to commute on electric but have a vehicle capable of long mileages.

To me (and it’s only my opinion), its either ICE or EV, that work best.

And you’re right Marc, the Cyber truck is shit!

[Daveya.]

Everything makes sense to someone, my personal opinion is that basic hybrids are a bit of a con and over complicated. Plug in hybrids are equally complicated but with larger batteries can work for many to commute on electric but have a vehicle capable of long mileages.

To me (and it’s only my opinion), its either ICE or EV, that work best.

And you’re right Marc, the Cyber truck is shit!

Maybe, earlier hybrids certainly were, the latest 2.0l hybrid engine from Toyota is superb though and a step up from the previous 1.8

But they have one small battery is in the boot and you can lift it out, that part is a lot simpler than a 10k bill from Tesla to replace their battery's ( as an example )

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[Dave+63]

But they have one small battery is in the boot and you can lift it out, that part is a lot simpler than a 10k bill from Tesla to replace their battery's ( as an example )

So what?

[RobDad]

I watched the Matt Watson review and it looks absolutely ridiculous. Probably kill or seriously maim anyone who gets run over at 20mph too - how on earth did it pass as suitable for road use?

[Passenger]

I watched the Matt Watson review and it looks absolutely ridiculous. Probably kill or seriously maim anyone who gets run over at 20mph too - how on earth did it pass as suitable for road use?

I dunno but would guess given it's the US where any man and his dog can get their guns on, safety/ suitability is something of a relatively elastic term...

[Tooks]

I dunno but would guess given it's the US where any man and his dog can get their guns on, safety/ suitability is something of a relatively elastic term...

It’s no better or worse than your average massive US pickup I’d have thought?

It’s only slight redeeming quality might be it’s active safety systems might mean you’d be less likely to hit somebody or something in the first place.

To be fair to Ford and GM though, I don’t know where the active safety systems on those ‘Super Duty’ style pick up trucks sit in comparison.

I wouldn’t want to be hit by any of them, to be fair!

[Daveya.]

It’s no better or worse than your average massive US pickup I’d have thought?

It’s only slight redeeming quality might be it’s active safety systems might mean you’d be less likely to hit somebody or something in the first place.

To be fair to Ford and GM though, I don’t know where the active safety systems on those ‘Super Duty’ style pick up trucks sit in comparison.

I wouldn’t want to be hit by any of them, to be fair!

Well, the stories of shoddy build quality already piling in

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[Tooks]

Well, the stories of shoddy build quality already piling in

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For the avoidance of doubt, whilst I’m interested in some of the technical aspects of the cyber truck, including the problems, overall I think it’s a steaming pile of sh1t3 and I wouldn’t be seen dead in one!

I don’t think it was really aimed at me or most folks on here though, indeed it won’t be on sale here or anywhere in Europe.

We can safely point and laugh I think!

[Passenger]

It’s no better or worse than your average massive US pickup I’d have thought?

It’s only slight redeeming quality might be it’s active safety systems might mean you’d be less likely to hit somebody or something in the first place.

To be fair to Ford and GM though, I don’t know where the active safety systems on those ‘Super Duty’ style pick up trucks sit in comparison.

I wouldn’t want to be hit by any of them, to be fair!

They certainly seem to have embraced the spirit of ''Supersize me'' in the US, fast food and vehicles. I always see a lot of behemoth trucks and SUV's about when over there. Vehicle mass has been going up for decades, seems the go large idea kicked off in the GO GO 90's...It's the added weight of the EV versions though in a crash, that'll make a difference, I thought this was quite an interesting read,...the HUMMER EV ''WTF mode'' just insane...might be useful during the food riots and the zombie apocalypse though or a Sharknado,

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01...r-heavier-evs/

''The poster child for excessive EVs is the GMC Hummer EV, a monster truck with a monstrous 9,063 lb (4,110 kg) curb weight. The vehicle is still powerful enough to hurl itself to 60 mph in three seconds. Appropriately, that feature is called "WTF mode." Indeed, Homendy drew attention to the gigantic Hummer in her speech.

"Its gross vehicle weight rating is a staggering 10,550 lbs. The battery pack alone weighs over 2,900 lbs—about the weight of a Honda Civic. The Ford F-150 Lightning is between 2,000 and 3,000 lbs heavier than the non-electric version... That has a significant impact on safety for all road users," Homendy continued.

The problem is one of simple physics: All else being equal, a heavier vehicle imparts more energy during a crash than a lighter one. Speed matters, too, of course—small increases become big increases in kinetic energy during a crash. But while municipalities and states set speed limits, there isn't a similar restriction on passenger vehicle curb weights.''

[Tooks]

They certainly seem to have embraced the spirit of ''Supersize me'' in the US, fast food and vehicles. I always see a lot of behemoth trucks and SUV's about when over there. Vehicle mass has been going up for decades, seems the go large idea kicked off in the GO GO 90's...It's the added weight of the EV versions though in a crash, that'll make a difference, I thought this was quite an interesting read,...the HUMMER EV ''WTF mode'' just insane...might be useful during the food riots and the zombie apocalypse though or a Sharknado,

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01...r-heavier-evs/

''The poster child for excessive EVs is the GMC Hummer EV, a monster truck with a monstrous 9,063 lb (4,110 kg) curb weight. The vehicle is still powerful enough to hurl itself to 60 mph in three seconds. Appropriately, that feature is called "WTF mode." Indeed, Homendy drew attention to the gigantic Hummer in her speech.

"Its gross vehicle weight rating is a staggering 10,550 lbs. The battery pack alone weighs over 2,900 lbs—about the weight of a Honda Civic. The Ford F-150 Lightning is between 2,000 and 3,000 lbs heavier than the non-electric version... That has a significant impact on safety for all road users," Homendy continued.

The problem is one of simple physics: All else being equal, a heavier vehicle imparts more energy during a crash than a lighter one. Speed matters, too, of course—small increases become big increases in kinetic energy during a crash. But while municipalities and states set speed limits, there isn't a similar restriction on passenger vehicle curb weights.''

I wouldn’t say a Hummer of any variant is typical for a passenger car even in the US though, and no more representative of a general car than a Lamborghini Huracán for example?

Many diesel Ford Transits are 2 to 3 tonnes, I wouldn’t want one of those to run into me either!

Before somebody comes along and quotes Gordon Murray, all cars have been getting heavier for decades, it’s probably why relatively fewer people die in them as they’re now packed with active and passive safety equipment, and construction has evolved with high strength steels etc.

It seems some folks are only concerned about the weight of a vehicle when they’re EVs. We’ve discussed this many times ‘in the other thread’, yes EVs are heavier like for like (generally 2 to 3 Passengers worth - no pun intended!), but they’re not typically 4.1 tonne Hummers either, and most weigh a lot less than the ubiquitous and popular Range Rover or VW T6 vans.

But anyway, and back on topic, the Cyber Truck is crap and shouldn’t have been designed or built.

[Daveya.]

https://twitter.com/creepydotorg/sta...Dv03E6ADg&s=19

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[RobDad]

I agree £1000 is ridiculous (and there was no damage to the grille, just replacing and reprogramming the sensors) - but only last week a friend hit a small (muntjack) deer in his 2 year old Fiesta and a new grille and front bumper plus ancillaries has been quoted at nearly £2700. Sure he must also have a sensor in there too. My point was that whilst £1000 is ridiculous, I don’t think it’s any more than I’d expect with a modern ICE car. If the same accident had occurred driving a modern Golf - which has a similar sensor in the front grille - I suspect the cost would be much the same. It’s the computerisation of cars that is the issue. Mind you I had a previous Volvo that slammed on the brakes for me when a small child cycled out between parked cars - I was only doing about 25mph but it virtually stood the car on its nose and helped me as the driver avoid a potential nightmare scenario. If £1000 is the cost of that kind of progress it’s definitely worth it. Didn’t help the pheasant though - he made a direct hit on the sensor and was brown bread before the car knew what had happened!

[kace]

My car had a parking ding caused by a neighbour catching a bumper, chips away said £400, the neighbour who did it wanted to go insurance. Had I come back to it in a car park I wouldn't have bothered repairing as it was that slight.

My insurers approved repairer took the job on and charged £3300 for the fix and hire car...it took a month! They even changed a tyre for some reason despite there being no damage and the car passing a mot at a main dealer between accident and repair.

Axa didn't care as I guess they were passing the bill on.

Its a scam, a massive scam.

[Daveya.]

What a pos it is

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[Daveya.]

Eeek

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[Chris_in_the_UK]

Restricting Ford ICE will not hugely boost Ford EV sales. The lack of uptake is for various (obvious) reasons.

[Saint-Just]

Restricting Ford ICE will not hugely boost Ford EV sales. The lack of uptake is for various (obvious) reasons.

I think he’s not talking about selling more EVs through lack of ICE, but restricting ICEs so that his EV/ICE ratio can increases.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I think he’s not talking about selling more EVs through lack of ICE, but restricting ICEs so that his EV/ICE ratio can increases.

Which it will not IMHO - certainly not in Ford's case or many others. The uptake is slowing for fairly obvious reasons and strangling the ICE route will do little to change these.