The Reusable I'm Thinking of Buying a Car Thread....

It's been a while since we had a car thread, maybe 10 or even 20 minutes. Hence I thought I'd rekindle the fire with my own pondering, and leave it open for others if amenable, too.

Here's the object of my current whim:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...46bc0e5f_b.jpg

A Jeep Grand Cherokee, from 2006. This one has the ideal engine for Tokyo's urban jungle:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...16df4741_b.jpg

A frugal 5.7L V8 hemi. And by frugal, I mean 'makes the 6000SUX look impressive'

Other info, well, like a lot of cars on Japanese roads, it has spent most of its 17 years doing nothing but being occasionally challenged by a giant duster. This example having covered 47,000Km since new. Condition is therefore quite close to original. That is to say, fairly ropey. Well by BMW/Merc/Audi standards, but this is an old boot after all.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...12178b9b_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f14a41b9_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8b0c4757_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9e1b89b8_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b6e1c56a_b.jpg

It may surprise you to learn, given my evident eye for quality, that I know little about cars.

Seriously, a 2006 car... even though little used, it's going to be a disaster right? I never do many many miles a year, so it would be occasional use really, but I don't have a workshop, so at a minimum, it needs to start and have enough left in it to get to the nearest garage.

Hence to the TZ-UK hive mind to get a view on whether this is madness, genius, or I have achieved some new level of stupid...

Good points...
Mileage
Probably little or no rust
Big lump engine
Hi spec
Any niggles should have been sorted a decade ago.

Bad points
Big lump engine
17 years old
QC remember It's a Jeep

If its got good history and the price is right - yeah why not.

I’m still processing how 2006 could be 17 years ago…..

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Originally Posted by JasonM

I’m still processing how 2006 could be 17 years ago…..

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Time flies.

R

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei

Hence to the TZ-UK hive mind to get a view on whether this is madness, genius, or I have achieved some new level of stupid...

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Yes, yes and yes, go for it! [emoji106]

See also the ten year old car thread.

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Originally Posted by Dave+63

Yes, yes and yes, go for it! [emoji106]

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That's the spirit :congratulatory:

The first picture is not the same car as the interior nor engine.

Picture 1 is a 2000-2005 WJ Grand Cherokee, biggest engine was a 4.7.

Interior and engine pic shows the 2006 WK Grand Cherokee with the 5.7.

WJ was an outstanding vehicle. WK was where Chrysler started to cut costs and reliability really suffered. I've owned both and would have a 2004/5 WJ 4.7 with pleasure. Anything newer I wouldn't touch.

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Originally Posted by RossC

The first picture is not the same car as the interior nor engine.

Picture 1 is a 2000-2005 WJ Grand Cherokee, biggest engine was a 4.7.

Interior and engine pic shows the 2006 WK Grand Cherokee with the 5.7.

WJ was an outstanding vehicle. WK was where Chrysler started to cut costs and reliability really suffered. I've owned both and would have a 2004/5 WJ 4.7 with pleasure. Anything newer I wouldn't touch.

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Dissenter… burn him.

Excellent advice though :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by RossC

The first picture is not the same car as the interior nor engine.

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Oops, now fixed!

WJ...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9aaf75ec_b.jpg

WK...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...46bc0e5f_b.jpg

The same garage has some WJs for sale too, but they do look pretty tired now, the interiors especially.

Supposedly the WKs are better on road, which realistically, is where this one would spend most of its time when not at the petrol station.

That's better :thumbsup:

This is my old WK:

https://i.imgur.com/Wx6Mpff.jpg

Granted, it was the Mercedes 3.0 CRD engine, but that always made more sense than the 5.7. My WJ was a 4.7 which was simply outstanding and I miss it dearly.

The WK did have better road manners, and was a great do-it-all. Chrysler started cutting costs and it was evident everywhere you looked. It would even leak in the cabin when it rained.

Value for money aspect was huge, but reliability was poor, and would chew through consumables. I remember replacing the same ball joints on the same arms within 25k miles, such was the poor quality manufacturer parts.

I could go on, but the car I loved, the maintenance I did not.

I believe 'Enoch' of this parish had the 5.7, so it might be worth talking to him.

One thing is for sure, a rust free Japanese example with low miles, is a much better proposition than what us UK drivers put them through.

Thank you for the very useful info. My dad had a Chrysler-era Mercedes and it too had seemingly-important parts fashioned from cheese, so maybe not a good era. Although the merger was in 1998 apparently, but perhaps the WJ was conceived prior to that doomed marriage.

Yours though looks like a very nice WK (he says, effortlessly slipping into model references like an old hand at these...)

The WJ I posted a picture of erroneously is also for sale from the same place. It's similar-looking on the outside:

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...8553_4_003.jpg

... but I'm not sure on the interior:

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...8553_2_003.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...553_15_003.jpg

This is the 4.7l, from 2004:

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...553_19_003.jpg

Fuel consumption is in the same league as the later 5.7 in the WK, that is to say, wantonly cataclysmic. But it's cheaper (£7000 compared to £8000 for the WK), has even fewer kilometers (37,000), and full dealer servicing.

Might go and have a look tomorrow...

Thats a definite 'Buy' from Me, things are always better with a V8 in your life and this looks like the perfect Steed for 10mph city traffic and has the appropraite load carrying ability for when you need to nip to the shops for a pint of milk or Sake

I'd even suggest a fruity exhaust to unleash that Hemi orchestra properly upon unwary pedestrians and your neighbours at 5am

Simple test…

Simply sit in the drivers seat of the WK first. Take it in for all of 30 seconds.

Then, immediately go and sit in the WJ.

You’ll know. WJ is the one.

Nobody ever talks of the WK comfort. Everybody loves a soft cosseting WJ. Everybody.

https://i.imgur.com/BinhQHF.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...553_19_003.jpg

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My 710 wants to know what a 'Caution Fan' does.

I do not know of the Japanese 4X4 scene but you have here the equivalent of a more reliable and just as capable Range Rover. Parts are plentiful from the US, usually cheap and with loads of available upgrades should you decide to play the game (my guess is you won't, but it's there :icon_biggrin:). I seem to remember that having a foreign-built car in Japan was quite a feat (in the 60s, one of my father's friend had to go to some bureau to explain why he had chosen a Merc instead of a Toyota), that parking in town is such that Minis are the equivalent of large SUVs here and that public transports mostly negate the convenience of having your own car.
All this to say that while it may be a stupid decision, it's a GOOD stupid decision and you should go for it.

Will it fit in the parking spaces

All good points. A car in Tokyo is functionally questionable, a storied but somewhat pointless call-back to an earlier time, mechanically needy, a well-marketed prop upon which (mainly) men hang their tribal loyalties, project their aspirations and exercise their conversational gambits.

Luckily, I also frequent a watch forum.

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Originally Posted by hogthrob

My 710 wants to know what a 'Caution Fan' does.

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Which immediately reminds me of the 710 origins :welcoming:

Do you intend doing the conversion yourself, or will you be handing it over to a professional?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gArhR7p4yZw

I've lost track of which is which now but I prefer the one with hand brake on the driver's side. It must be a right pain having to take a passenger everywhere with you to operate it on the other version.

I've had a few Jeeps, WJ V8 is a peach.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard

Thats a definite 'Buy' from Me, things are always better with a V8 in your life and this looks like the perfect Steed for 10mph city traffic and has the appropraite load carrying ability for when you need to nip to the shops for a pint of milk or Sake

I'd even suggest a fruity exhaust to unleash that Hemi orchestra properly upon unwary pedestrians and your neighbours at 5am

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There are all sorts of mods you can do to the exhaust system on these, from downright deafening to much more acceptable but still V8 gorgeous. But never mind the sound, they are capable of astonishing acceleration that’ll leave many sports cars disappearing in your mirrors.

R

Impressive acceleration between petrol stations ;-)

The fuel thirst could be a major positive. My last car would only need refuelling annually, and the gas would go off in the meantime. I suspect I wouldn't have that problem any more :congratulatory:

WJ owner reviews a WK here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Kn316CqqA

...but what watch is he sporting?

All that greyness inside would do my head in.

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei

Might go and have a look tomorrow...

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Hmm, sketchy name-on-a-door "dealer" operating from a single garage at the bottom of a block of flats. I guess the photos were taken elsewhere, and the "190 cars in stock" are in a field somewhere. Local reviews include comments like "the owner is scary..." :congratulatory:

Might have to give this one a miss!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei

Hmm, sketchy name-on-a-door "dealer" operating from a single garage at the bottom of a block of flats. I guess the photos were taken elsewhere, and the "190 cars in stock" are in a field somewhere. Local reviews include comments like "the owner is scary..." :congratulatory:

Might have to give this one a miss!

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You have those in Japan, too?
What’s the world coming to!

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

You have those in Japan, too?
What’s the world coming to!

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It would appear so. Although on further digging, it seems the owner is an otaku ("nerd") for imported cars and has been in business for over 20 years. So probably sound. But not sure I want to deal with a one man band with an old, likely needy, car and no garage of my own.

Speaking of old and needy, next on my journey into stupid...

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...019_12_001.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...019_38_001.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...019_51_001.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...1019_1_001.jpg

2007 HSE, 49,000Km, 3.2L

I'm sure I am right in understanding that no one has ever had an issue with an LR product?

Not heard of the 3.2l (I assume petrol) engine in the Freelander (aka Disco Sport) - was that an option in the UK?

Always surprises me how the Japanese still like that wing mounted rear view mirror for parking, even when their cars are chocked full of various tech inc. reverse cameras from quite a while ago.

My advice?

Buy a Mitsuoka Buddy.

In fact, buy any one of their rather bonkers offerings!

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Originally Posted by vagabond

Not heard of the 3.2l (I assume petrol) engine in the Freelander (aka Disco Sport) - was that an option in the UK?

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Not sure about the UK, but in Japan diesels are rare so the petrol straight six 3.2 was an option. It's the same lump fitted to the Volvo S80 and some XC90s, built by Ford in Wales.

I understand this curious need some people have to burn money just because they can, and that drives them to buy JLR products. I agree that whenever they decide to work they are usually a very nice place to be in, unlike say a yacht that will be damp and cold 8 months per year, excessively hot another month, and expensive to keep on all 365 days. However in your case of limited use it seems to me to be a more dangerous choice as the chances the battery is drained between two drives are seriously increased.
The fact that you live in a country that manufactures exactly the type of vehicle you feel you need notwithstanding, the Grand Cherokee seems to me a better choice than the LR, and an older model will have fewer electronic must-haves to go wrong. And since off-roading doesn't seem to rank high in your priorities, you may want to have a look at the X5 too.

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Originally Posted by jwg663

Buy a Mitsuoka Buddy.

In fact, buy any one of their rather bonkers offerings!

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

I understand this curious need some people have to burn money just because they can, and that drives them to buy JLR products [...] it seems to me to be a more dangerous choice as the chances the battery is drained between two drives are seriously increased.

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Both good points and you have perfectly understood the mission here: the utility of a car is wasted on me, so it becomes literally a futile purchase. Rather like an expensive watch. Which is the point really, and once understood, quite liberating. No need to triangulate spec/features/price in typical bloke fashion: just buy something that makes you happy.

Anyway, the battery issue is pertinent. I always had to keep one of those battery power boosters around for my last car (Mercedes B200) and I became adept at lifting the driver's side footwell carpet to access the battery. That's the problem with things of limited use, they run down and require maintenance (also like an expensive watch...).

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

The fact that you live in a country that manufactures exactly the type of vehicle you feel you need notwithstanding [...]

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I do, but (as with watches... these parallels are building) I find most of the current models very boring and similar.

If Japanese, this sort of thing (from year 2000) appeals:

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...7124_5_001.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...7124_7_001.jpg

...but less so the more recent ones. Which like seemingly everything, appear to be produced mainly as a hook to sell a finance package. But they are all too expensive for an indulgence, so it's back to the cheap/interesting/ageing ones from a few years back, I think. Again, like watches :D

Please, go kick the tyres of the Jeeps :thumbsup:

I used to have an 2000 4.7V8 Grand Cherokee.
It could drink like George Best and rattled like a couple of skeletons going at it but I loved that thing.

Went into analysis paralysis and got sick of the whole thing.

Jeep idea is fading. Somewhere in my deep dive I read of a Jeep owner whose 4 year-old model needed a part that Fiat (the unlikely parent of Jeep) no longer make. So their car is apparently unrepairable.

Seems wild but there is no compulsion to provide spares, so during the supply chain troubles, some manufacturers are prioritising new cars and parts only. That worry, plus the fact that there aren't many actual Jeep dealers in this country and I don't have workshop space, means something more mainstream is probably wiser.

Currently pondering this:

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...554_30_001.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...554_39_001.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...554_15_002.jpg

Audi A4 Quattro "Allroad". This one from 2015, with 39K kms. It's the same price as the 2006 Jeep, and although not as interesting, I suspect may be a smarter option.

Are you trying to tell us you've become (a little bit) more rational?

Shirley not!

Be careful the A4 is not huge. At least have a look at the A6... [nota: I do not know your family size; I have an 18yo daughter and a 15kg dog and a 3 Series (about the same size as your A4) was deemed way too small; Yet we only use the car at full capacity twice a year]

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei

Audi A4 Quattro "Allroad". This one from 2015, with 39K kms. It's the same price as the 2006 Jeep, and although not as interesting, I suspect may be a smarter option.

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Seems to me that either the 2006 Jeep is very expensive or the 2015 A4 is very cheap - certainly when compared to UK prices.

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Originally Posted by vagabond

Seems to me that either the 2006 Jeep is very expensive or the 2015 A4 is very cheap.

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Both about £8K, dealer price. Not sure how much they'd be elsewhere, but generally used cars are cheap here. Parking (in Tokyo, you have to have or rent a space, which will be measured to the millimetre, before buying anything other than a Kei car) and the strict annual shaken (MOT) ensure the purchase price is the least of your considerations. I gave my last car away.

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

Be careful the A4 is not huge

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I need to check. It's barely less long on the outside than the Jeep, but might be too much of a squeeze in the back. And stop calling me surely.

I missed this one today. I spotted it only yesterday but it was for sale since late October. The seller lives 100 km /65 miles single trip away, so I called him and he told me that he's sold the car yesterday. Shame.

An original Dutch, one-owner-since new HZJ75 Pick Up with the 4.s ltr diesel engine. No turbo = no repairs. The car had done... 160k kms/100k mls.


https://www.hengersparts.nl/nl/voert...75-pickup-1996https://cdn.automotivecdn.nl/cdn/w=x...1-zw8sxf1p.jpg

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Originally Posted by thieuster

I missed this one today. I spotted it only yesterday but it was for sale since late October. The seller lives 100 km /65 miles single trip away, so I called him and he told me that he's sold the car yesterday. Shame.

An original Dutch, one-owner-since new HZJ75 Pick Up with the 4.s ltr diesel engine. No turbo = no repairs. The car had done... 160k kms/100k mls.

https://www.hengersparts.nl/nl/voert...75-pickup-1996

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Love the 70 series - that would have fetched a decent price over here. The 4.2 non-turbo is bit on the slow side but ultra reliable. That one looks lovely! :encouragement:

The asking price was 22k euros/18.850 gbp. i am amazed that it took 6 weeks to sell this one! This one goes abroad. And yes they're slow. But so am I according to my wife and kids when they're with me in a car (still, I always drive a little too fast).

I'd asked around about the do's and don'ts of that type of car. In short, there are no 'don'ts'. The non-turbo is the best option. Again: no break-downs. Every single item is still for sale from the LC division of Toyota and is delivered worldwide. Technically, the only thing you need to do is... regular maintenance. Changing oil, pref a good quality and making sure that all grease nipples are fed with fresh grease. I've read about mileages exceeding 1 million kms without a rebuild. The life span of the g'boxes and clutch depends on the way the car is used (road, terrain, gravel). Even the underpinning's bushes stay intact. Some people buy these cars with 500k kms done and easily re-travel Charlie and Ewan's 'The Long Way...' or do the Pan American Highway from Alaska to Patagonia with these old beasts.

It's a tractor. Which fits right in: lots of these LCs are sold here by shops that repair agri machines as a side-step to make money.

Bored and taking a day off, so naturally my mind reverts to pointless spending.

This bucket hoves into view...

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...691_10_002.jpg

https://ccsrpcml.carsensor.net/CSpho...691_35_001.jpg

I know, it looks like a chest freezer on wheels.

But but but... 3L straight six, 4x4, will probably fit in my ludicrous assigned parking cage, and fewer than 30K miles.

£3K... or in currency I understand, two services for my IWC.

TT you are a genius or TT you are an utter plonker responses invited.

edit: it's a 2011 X1 xDrive 25i M Sport

Free worthers in the glovebox. It’s a lot of car for the ££ though.

I thought second hand cars were much more expensive in Japan, especially foreign ones.

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Originally Posted by stooo

Free worthers in the glovebox. It’s a lot of car for the ££ though.

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I was hoping the straight 6 and four wheel drive might lift it out of the grandad zone, but I appreciate it's basically a 3 series Touring with heel lifts, so maybe not!

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

I thought second hand cars were much more expensive in Japan, especially foreign ones.

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Foreign cars are more expensive new here, but all used cars are cheap so the initial difference erodes quite quickly. The shaken (MOT) is especially onerous in Japan, and foreign car parts are expensive, so used foreign cars become a liability. I've mentioned it in the thread already, but I gave away my previous car (Merc B200) at 60,000 miles. It was worthless.

Yes sorry, I was on Tapatalk and it rang a bell but searches are not convenient on the app.

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei

Merc B200) at 60,000 miles. It was worthless.

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That really is totally bonkers.

Is it the fear of parts / costs, or the MOT being the harsh / deciding factor? Is that why we get lots of JDM fast cars imported as they are no longer able to pass?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mj2k

That really is totally bonkers.

Is it the fear of parts / costs, or the MOT being the harsh / deciding factor? Is that why we get lots of JDM fast cars imported as they are no longer able to pass?

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It was on just over 56K miles actually. Highest spec B200, pano roof, aniline leather, new Michelin tyres, new discs and pads. All worked perfectly. I gave it to a friend (who bought me dinner, to be fair) who gave it to his daughter. The meal was worth more.

To answer your question: most urban-dwellers who have a car do low mileage. Houses/apartments are sold or rented based on their price, size and, crucially, how many minutes walk to the nearest station, with 'over 10 minutes' being unusual and hence discounted. Plus you must demonstrate (to the satisfaction of the local police, who will come round and measure it to the millimetre) that you have a car space of adequate size before purchasing a vehicle. And in the city, expect that space to cost you at least £250 a month - on top of your rent or loan, before you even get started on general running costs. The shaken itself takes half a day and is rarely less than £500, assuming no major issues.

Car buying here is cheap, but ownership is expensive.

So comparably, a lot of 'old' cars have little use compared to the UK. But the shaken (MOT) is famously strict, and is based on age not use. Which incidentally explains why all cars in Japan, of any age, look like they just came out of the factory - they are basically required to be back to factory spec every two years. This costs a lot more as the car ages. It's not that they are unlikely to pass, just that it's no longer economical to keep them maintained to this level after 5 to 10 years (depending on budget/model etc)

It's why that BMW with under 30K miles on it, 3 litre 4x4 and full leather is £3K (dealer price). He would have picked it up at auction, unwanted, for £1K from another dealer who would have offered the owner £500 for it in part exchange against a new one...

Great news if you buying one from overseas - you'll get something maintained like new, likely with low mileage, and as the yen is low, priced cheaply too.

Whereas if I buy this car, I do so knowing I will have to either give it away or pay for it to be taken away in a few years.

I’m sure I heard that Domestic Japanese cars are built to lower spec for this reason. Thinner body panels etc