My new desk diver

Hi all,

I don’t post on here much. But love the forum and have enjoyed the years of conversations and posts on here. On the advice of MartynJC I’ve started this thread.

Thought I’d update you all on my latest companion to join me on my desk diving journey. I’ve been lucky enough to own a few good watches in my time, not least a lovely metres first 5513 Submariner from 1971, and a 79090 Tudor Submariner (both full sets as well). But this latest addition is really far and away above anything I’ve ever owned before.

Here’s my “new” 5512 gilt dial sub, from 1961. It’s the grail sub for me and where my dive watch journey likely stops. (Beyond this level you’re talking 6538s, 5517 mil subs and crazy money.)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...83658060a5.jpg

I’ve hunted for a good one for a while. Those of you who understand vintage know this is NOT an easy process. It’s fraught with pitfalls and potential errors, and an error can cost you big time. I’ve read books for hours, studied videos and done my homework. I’ve saved up money and got rid of a couple of pieces I really liked to get this. But finally I found one that trumps them all. And by god is it better than I imagined. A hat tip to Stefano Leaney aka the VintagewatchLad who helped source it for me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5f1b30d652.jpg

Here it is on a 1980s service bracelet. The original expandable 7206 rivet bracelet will stay in the safe along with the 58 end-links. I very much doubt it’ll get much bracelet time as the serial number is starting to wear off and it needs very careful looking after. I hope you enjoy the pics.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...984dafa2ba.jpg

So there you are folks. I don’t mean to brag or show off. I’m just very proud that I’ve been able to achieve this in our fantastic hobby, and I thought I’d share it with you.

Cheers all

Mike


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Stunning acquisition, Mike.

Your excitement shines through in your post. No hint of bragging at all and think you have every reason to show it off.

Can see this one will bring you many years of happiness. Enjoy.

Absolute stunner and that would be a grail for me also being born in 1961. I did own a 1978 5512 for a while, but these early gilt dial watches are really something else. Lovely clean dial there. Hands and bezel insert aren’t too bad either.

If you have done your homework, can you explain why some have an exclamation mark in the 6 position and others don’t. I did read somewhere that one represents original radium dial and the other is for tritium, but can’t remember if that was established fact or just someone’s opinion.

Congratulations and enjoy.

Lovely watch OP
So much nicer than the more modern version IMO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner

If you have done your homework, can you explain why some have an exclamation mark in the 6 position and others don’t. I did read somewhere that one represents original radium dial and the other is for tritium, but can’t remember if that was established fact or just someone’s opinion.

Congratulations and enjoy.

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I read that the under line / exclamation mark dials are both Tritium and both markings were a way of noting the fact they were a T dial over the radium that came before
Eventually the Swiss settled on the T markings around Swiss or Swiss made later still the <T markings came in to being as they further reduced the level of Tritium.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner

Absolute stunner and that would be a grail for me also being born in 1961. I did own a 1978 5512 for a while, but these early gilt dial watches are really something else. Lovely clean dial there. Hands and bezel insert aren’t too bad either.

If you have done your homework, can you explain why some have an exclamation mark in the 6 position and others don’t. I did read somewhere that one represents original radium dial and the other is for tritium, but can’t remember if that was established fact or just someone’s opinion.

Congratulations and enjoy.

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Hi Wallasey

So the exclamation point starts appearing at the end of 1961 early 1962. There is, as far as I can see, no actual testimony from a Rolex dial painter saying explicitly that this was an in-house way of indicating lower radium content in the dial. However it’s generally assumed by most scholars that this is what it was. Basically an internal code used to indicate to others working on the watch that the dial had less aggressive radiation in it.

Certainly the Geiger counter readings taken from hundreds if not thousands of watches from this period seem to corroborate this. So interestingly I just missed out on a 1962 exclamation point dial before I found this (literally a week later, after thinking I’d never find another decent 5512 again). The readings were about half those seen in this watch, indicating that there’s definitely radium still on the exclamation point dial, but clearly less of it. Maybe mixed with Tritium, or some other form of filler, it’s hard to be sure. Watch dial painters experimented through the late 50s and even early 60s to try and get the radium content down, and many different types of mixtures were used.

By 1963 you see the underline dials begin to appear, now many of these are definitely Tritium, the Geiger readings are sometimes 100 times lower than even an exclamation point dial. That being said not all underlines are tritium only, and not all exclamation points have radium in them. But it’s the general rule of thumb.

A very imprecise science from what I can see, but clearly by the time my Sub was made the radium content was already drastically reduced compared to that of the mid 50s and the earliest Submariners. But you’re right to basically point to 1961-1962 as the moment in which the trend to get to as close as possible to zero radiation began.


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Thanks both and especially to Mike for the detailed response, much appreciated and all very interesting. Haywood seems to have a fair mix in his extensive collection of exclamation marks, underlined and double Swiss and it certainly extends to the GMTs of that period as well as far as I can see and possibly across the whole range during that time.

Worth all the effort I'm sure & well done.
Hard work will usually prevail & it seems to have paid off.
You are now a certified ' Happy Bunny'.

That’s a beautiful gilt dial you have there. Are you going to rock this as a daily? I’ve never owned a gilt dial (I do have a matte 5513 from 1978) and often had the perception that they were fragile. I might be misinformed though. Enjoy that beauty! I’ve seen some applying a small piece of tape between the lugs to protect the engravings.. just a thought


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Well worth the extra back story and pictures. Thank you for sharing this delightful watch which is a birth year for me (not that that matters). I hope it gets wrist time even with its rarity. All the best. Martyn.

Seriously special watch you have there. Great to see someone achieve their grail. I've never heard of a bracelet wearing off the serial but I guess it does make sense at that age.

Good to see a positive recommendation for the vintage watch lad. I've seen some sponsored posts for him and didn't know if he was trusted or not so stayed away.

Very nice. Are you saying that a leather strap wears the serial number less than the bracelet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montello

Very nice. Are you saying that a leather strap wears the serial number less than the bracelet?

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Hi Montello the issue seems to me that at some point in its life, a long life to be sure, the bracelet fitted to the watch had hollow end links that simply were not a perfect fit. As a result there’s clear damage to the serial number caused by rubbing, and it won’t take an awful lot more before it’s difficult if not impossible to read. The strap I’ve fitted keeps a bit of a gap between itself and the case, and from what I can see causes no friction between the lugs.

It’s a delicate balancing act. Personally I’d love to put the original expandable rivet bracelet on it but these have a horrid reputation for failing just at the wrong moment. Probably not a risk I’m willing to take!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kinyik

That’s a beautiful gilt dial you have there. Are you going to rock this as a daily? I’ve never owned a gilt dial (I do have a matte 5513 from 1978) and often had the perception that they were fragile. I might be misinformed though. Enjoy that beauty! I’ve seen some applying a small piece of tape between the lugs to protect the engravings.. just a thought


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Hi Kinyik…the tape idea sounds a smart one actually. I’ll give that a go.

Like you I had a 70s matte dial 5513, and I found myself trying to hide it from the sun all the time to stop it from ageing. Given that I was a little concerned about the 5513, I think I’ll protect this one even more, generally as the weather cools down you wear long sleeves which protects the dial, and there’s less issues with harsh sun etc. So I probably will wear it more in the winter. I suspect even then it’ll get maximum a couple of weeks out at a time before getting a break. It’s had a long life already I’ll treat it with a bit of care.

The temptation to wear this every day will be tough to resist!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike83

Hi Kinyik…the tape idea sounds a smart one actually. I’ll give that a go.

Like you I had a 70s matte dial 5513, and I found myself trying to hide it from the sun all the time to stop it from ageing. Given that I was a little concerned about the 5513, I think I’ll protect this one even more, generally as the weather cools down you wear long sleeves which protects the dial, and there’s less issues with harsh sun etc. So I probably will wear it more in the winter. I suspect even then it’ll get maximum a couple of weeks out at a time before getting a break. It’s had a long life already I’ll treat it with a bit of care.

The temptation to wear this every day will be tough to resist!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Ah we share the same sentiments re UV exposure and plot bleaching.

I bet you’ll get loads of wear this winter with that beauty!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike83

Hi Kinyik…the tape idea sounds a smart one actually. I’ll give that a go.

Like you I had a 70s matte dial 5513, and I found myself trying to hide it from the sun all the time to stop it from ageing. Given that I was a little concerned about the 5513, I think I’ll protect this one even more, generally as the weather cools down you wear long sleeves which protects the dial, and there’s less issues with harsh sun etc. So I probably will wear it more in the winter. I suspect even then it’ll get maximum a couple of weeks out at a time before getting a break. It’s had a long life already I’ll treat it with a bit of care.

The temptation to wear this every day will be tough to resist!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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That’s a good idea, a carefully cut section of helicopter tape would be unnoticed.

https://www.selfadhesive.co.uk/shop-...elicopter-tape

Beautiful watch Mike, congratulations.

Around 2010, I also bought a 5512 from 1961 with the exclamation dial, from a local dealer.
It came with its original receipt, purchased by an American serviceman from their equivalent of our NAAFI.
Wore it all the time, but got nervous about damaging it, as I tended, still do, to wear my watches everyday.
And finally sold it to a German dealer,

Well done such a stunning watch. One I am sure will apricate greatly once the Rolex bubble has subsided and rarer good vintage pieces become more sought not only for their rarity but significance within Rolex history.
Enjoy and wear in good health.

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike83

Hi all,

I don’t post on here much. But love the forum and have enjoyed the years of conversations and posts on here. On the advice of MartynJC I’ve started this thread.

Thought I’d update you all on my latest companion to join me on my desk diving journey. I’ve been lucky enough to own a few good watches in my time, not least a lovely metres first 5513 Submariner from 1971, and a 79090 Tudor Submariner (both full sets as well). But this latest addition is really far and away above anything I’ve ever owned before.

Here’s my “new” 5512 gilt dial sub, from 1961. It’s the grail sub for me and where my dive watch journey likely stops. (Beyond this level you’re talking 6538s, 5517 mil subs and crazy money.)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...83658060a5.jpg

I’ve hunted for a good one for a while. Those of you who understand vintage know this is NOT an easy process. It’s fraught with pitfalls and potential errors, and an error can cost you big time. I’ve read books for hours, studied videos and done my homework. I’ve saved up money and got rid of a couple of pieces I really liked to get this. But finally I found one that trumps them all. And by god is it better than I imagined. A hat tip to Stefano Leaney aka the VintagewatchLad who helped source it for me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5f1b30d652.jpg

Here it is on a 1980s service bracelet. The original expandable 7206 rivet bracelet will stay in the safe along with the 58 end-links. I very much doubt it’ll get much bracelet time as the serial number is starting to wear off and it needs very careful looking after. I hope you enjoy the pics.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...984dafa2ba.jpg

So there you are folks. I don’t mean to brag or show off. I’m just very proud that I’ve been able to achieve this in our fantastic hobby, and I thought I’d share it with you.

Cheers all

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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- - - Updated - - -

Well done such a stunning watch. One I am sure will apricate greatly once the Rolex bubble has subsided and rarer good vintage pieces become more sought not only for their rarity but significance within Rolex history.
Enjoy and wear in good health.

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike83

Hi all,

I don’t post on here much. But love the forum and have enjoyed the years of conversations and posts on here. On the advice of MartynJC I’ve started this thread.

Thought I’d update you all on my latest companion to join me on my desk diving journey. I’ve been lucky enough to own a few good watches in my time, not least a lovely metres first 5513 Submariner from 1971, and a 79090 Tudor Submariner (both full sets as well). But this latest addition is really far and away above anything I’ve ever owned before.

Here’s my “new” 5512 gilt dial sub, from 1961. It’s the grail sub for me and where my dive watch journey likely stops. (Beyond this level you’re talking 6538s, 5517 mil subs and crazy money.)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...83658060a5.jpg

I’ve hunted for a good one for a while. Those of you who understand vintage know this is NOT an easy process. It’s fraught with pitfalls and potential errors, and an error can cost you big time. I’ve read books for hours, studied videos and done my homework. I’ve saved up money and got rid of a couple of pieces I really liked to get this. But finally I found one that trumps them all. And by god is it better than I imagined. A hat tip to Stefano Leaney aka the VintagewatchLad who helped source it for me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5f1b30d652.jpg

Here it is on a 1980s service bracelet. The original expandable 7206 rivet bracelet will stay in the safe along with the 58 end-links. I very much doubt it’ll get much bracelet time as the serial number is starting to wear off and it needs very careful looking after. I hope you enjoy the pics.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...984dafa2ba.jpg

So there you are folks. I don’t mean to brag or show off. I’m just very proud that I’ve been able to achieve this in our fantastic hobby, and I thought I’d share it with you.

Cheers all

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

- - - Updated - - -

Well done such a stunning watch. One I am sure will apricate greatly once the Rolex bubble has subsided and rarer good vintage pieces become more sought not only for their rarity but significance within Rolex history.
Enjoy and wear in good health.

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike83

Hi all,

I don’t post on here much. But love the forum and have enjoyed the years of conversations and posts on here. On the advice of MartynJC I’ve started this thread.

Thought I’d update you all on my latest companion to join me on my desk diving journey. I’ve been lucky enough to own a few good watches in my time, not least a lovely metres first 5513 Submariner from 1971, and a 79090 Tudor Submariner (both full sets as well). But this latest addition is really far and away above anything I’ve ever owned before.

Here’s my “new” 5512 gilt dial sub, from 1961. It’s the grail sub for me and where my dive watch journey likely stops. (Beyond this level you’re talking 6538s, 5517 mil subs and crazy money.)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...83658060a5.jpg

I’ve hunted for a good one for a while. Those of you who understand vintage know this is NOT an easy process. It’s fraught with pitfalls and potential errors, and an error can cost you big time. I’ve read books for hours, studied videos and done my homework. I’ve saved up money and got rid of a couple of pieces I really liked to get this. But finally I found one that trumps them all. And by god is it better than I imagined. A hat tip to Stefano Leaney aka the VintagewatchLad who helped source it for me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5f1b30d652.jpg

Here it is on a 1980s service bracelet. The original expandable 7206 rivet bracelet will stay in the safe along with the 58 end-links. I very much doubt it’ll get much bracelet time as the serial number is starting to wear off and it needs very careful looking after. I hope you enjoy the pics.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...984dafa2ba.jpg

So there you are folks. I don’t mean to brag or show off. I’m just very proud that I’ve been able to achieve this in our fantastic hobby, and I thought I’d share it with you.

Cheers all

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Holy Christ, what a watch. Congratulations.

By the way you definitely didn’t come across as bragging or boastful!

Enjoy!

Splendid pick up. Congratulations