Faketona and a morning rant.

Morning all,

It is the dealer's unhappy lot to face daily requests for offers to buy watches that he sees instantly are fake.

One might speculate whether many of the enquirers know perfectly well that their watches are worthless.

A few days ago I received an enquiry from a man whose exotic name contained more Ks and Vs than would be polite on these shores :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...pstsgizue5.jpg

He described it as "Rolex, Gents Automatic, Oyster Platinum, Deployment Clasp, Ice Blue/Indexes, Case Size 40.00mm, Water Resistance 100m, no original box, papers and accessories, Manufacturer's International Warranty."

My initial response politely informed him that the watch was fake and that with regret we were unable to make an offer for it.

He wouldn't let it lie : "The clock is true because before I sartifikat and box but nyakadesam them lost and not find them, I want to ask what price will you give me for it, thank you. if you want to meet I can get it to look at it real."

I have invited him to bring it in, of course. Which explanation does the forum feel is most appropriate :

1. Sub-dials centred on mid-line are incorrect for 4130 calibre
2. Proportions of luminous material / metal on indices are incorrect
3. The "6" on the hour sub-dial is drifting off in a southerly direction and should be closer to the inner disc
4. The coronet's mouth gapes like that of an American watching "University Challenge"
5. Nobody with a carpet like that could afford a real Daytona ?

Haywood, admittedly in need of tea.

The carpet situation is surely the most damning evidence.

I find a good rant very cathartic at times.

Perhaps he photographed it on the back of his dog, for a real 'Dogtona'




Mitch

How about this reply...

"Please ring to arrange an appropriate time to come in and show me the watch, while I examine it, you have a chat with a member of our local constabulary about how you're attempting to defraud a local business".

I know not a lot about watches but even I can see this as a poor attempt at a copy. The guy may do better on ebay than chance it with a well respected dealer.

Regarding point 3, isn't the '9' also off?

Point 5 does it for me, btw. ;-)

R

I Suspect that the art of eloquence is lost on this guy!

At least you are refraining from any reference to fools market :-) an I particularly like number 4).

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Originally Posted by Spacemaster

At least you are refraining from any reference to fools market :-)

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Move along quickly now, please!

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

I have invited him to bring it in, of course. Which explanation does the forum feel is most appropriate :

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Possibly none of them, just "am not looking to trade this model right now". It may be construed as racist (or something) now that I know his name is not indigenous, but if you must invite him, be careful to invite only him, and not him and a couple of his mates, and not to knife you or one of your colleagues and turn your shop over when he gets upset that you won't buy his Rolex because it's a drug-fuelled fake. Just saying.

The dial doesn't look the right ice blue to me. Presumably even a blind dealer would know the moment they picked it up.

"I’ll have two from the top, and three from anywhere else, Carol”.

Pretty sure he could easily get a replacement sartifikat from Rolex?

I think you're on the money with the carpet comment.

Mine says hi.
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1...c/DSC_2636.jpg

How about replying with

Due to the clearly high value of this rare and exotic item I would like to meet you at our private viewing facilities at 8-10 Broadway, London SW1H 0BG. At this location you can be assured of complete security.

I can see that in a country house with a couple of blond children and a gun-dog scampering across it. Defintely a Rolex owner's carpet. The other I can imagine on the 7th floor of an Eastern European tower block.

Cue Draft Thread lynching.

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Originally Posted by ViperStripes

How about replying with

Due to the clearly high value of this rare and exotic item I would like to meet you at our private viewing facilities at 8-10 Broadway, London SW1H 0BG. At this location you can be assured of complete security.

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Ha! Scotland Yard, to save everyone from googling.

Better not to engage Haywood; he's either a criminal* trying to pass off a snide watch or a man soon to be very angry at you for calling his watch fake.

You don't need him on the premises.


*one man's criminal is of course anoyher man's hero to the multitude of fake (sorry 'rep') lovers on here, of course. Who don't own fakes to pass them off as real. Just doesn't happen. Right guys?

I'd make him aware before his visit that you will need to authenticate it using the hammer test... and that you would be happy to provide a jiffy bag to take it home in should it fail.

Rant or not, I wish all fakes looked like this. I've been tested a couple of times this year, the MontBlanc chronograph was very close to slipping by.

Haywood entertaining eloquent and knowledgeable as always thank you

What is the seize it and smash it policy - if he took it to an AD what would they do?

Is it only customs officers who can do this?

The analogy contained within point #4 was very entertaining.

Great post to brighten up an otherwise dull Tuesday afternoon!

The fake problem is clearly a big, big, problem as fakes get more professional, along with fake papers and cards. I discovered yesterday, when buying a new Rolex from the local AD, that Rolex HQ now require the dealer to photograph the new guarantee card and forward the images to them. Which means, in due course, that any 'guarantee card' offered with a used watch could be compared with images of the original. And if there is no original image.......
If this is being introduced now, it will be years before it takes full effect.

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Originally Posted by paskinner

The fake problem is clearly a big, big, problem as fakes get more professional, along with fake papers and cards. I discovered yesterday, when buying a new Rolex from the local AD, that Rolex HQ now require the dealer to photograph the new guarantee card and forward the images to them. Which means, in due course, that any 'guarantee card' offered with a used watch could be compared with images of the original. And if there is no original image.......
If this is being introduced now, it will be years before it takes full effect.

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This has been in place for a few months now.

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

...no original box, papers and accessories, Manufacturer's International Warranty."

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Hang on. This is the part that makes the least sense.

Clearly, it's all about the carpet!

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Originally Posted by paskinner

The fake problem is clearly a big, big, problem as fakes get more professional, along with fake papers and cards. I discovered yesterday, when buying a new Rolex from the local AD, that Rolex HQ now require the dealer to photograph the new guarantee card and forward the images to them. Which means, in due course, that any 'guarantee card' offered with a used watch could be compared with images of the original. And if there is no original image.......
If this is being introduced now, it will be years before it takes full effect.

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I've been researching fake watches for a bit and in passing PMs with Mark he pointed out something that I'd missed - the sheer number of variations that the companies now push out makes it harder for someone doing a face to face (not a dealer but an average joe) to be certain about what is good or bad (if it's one of the higher end fakes, I'm not talking a turkish beach special).

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Originally Posted by demonloop

Great post to brighten up an otherwise dull Tuesday afternoon!

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Yes , its certainly put a smile on my face .

Just mention you are unwilling to enter into a fools market, with a little luck he'll take the huff and that's the last you will hear from him!

edit : I see I was beaten to the punchline, ah well..

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Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne

I think you're on the money with the carpet comment.

Mine says hi.

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You might have vacuumed that before taking the photo!

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

4. The coronet's mouth gapes like that of an American watching "University Challenge"

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Utterly brilliant and hilarious term of phrase.

Thank you for making me smile on an otherwise very low day.

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Originally Posted by MarkO

What is the seize it and smash it policy - if he took it to an AD what would they do?

Is it only customs officers who can do this?

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Doesn’t exist in the UK – it’s not illegal to own, purchase, or even sell a fake watch, as an individual.
If you trade (as in buy/sell many) then you’re venturing up the Swanee without a paddle.

Is the right to destroy a watch part of Rolex's T and Cs when you send a watch to them for verification or whatever?

Shame...looks like you're missing out on quite a deal with that one haha.

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Originally Posted by Der Amf

Is the right to destroy a watch part of Rolex's T and Cs when you send a watch to them for verification or whatever?

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Ts & Cs do not ever usurp the law of the land. Rolex have no authority to do anything other than return to owner.

Tell him if wants to scrap it, it is worth £20.
If he leaves the £20 note with the watch you will dispose of it for him.

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Originally Posted by PJ S

Ts & Cs do not ever usurp the law of the land. Rolex have no authority to do anything other than return to owner.

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But if the watch is with Rolex - don't the rules of that country apply? Admittedly it would have to a good enough fake to get past an AD to end up in the hands of Rolex. Perhaps more of a franken build from real parts than an out and out fake.

The cheeky Wot-Not has just been into one of my stores with it, asking for an offer !

Go on, out with you! Shoo! We don't want your type in here! This shop has too nice a carpet for you!

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

The cheeky Wot-Not has just been into one of my stores with it, asking for an offer !

Go on, out with you! Shoo! We don't want your type in here! This shop has too nice a carpet for you!

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Must have got a cheap flight from Nigeria.

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

The cheeky Wot-Not has just been into one of my stores with it, asking for an offer !

Go on, out with you! Shoo! We don't want your type in here! This shop has too nice a carpet for you!

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Top points for effort haha!

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

The cheeky Wot-Not has just been into one of my stores with it, asking for an offer !

Go on, out with you! Shoo! We don't want your type in here! This shop has too nice a carpet for you!

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Pay him with monopoly money

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Originally Posted by DB9yeti

Better not to engage Haywood; he's either a criminal* trying to pass off a snide watch or a man soon to be very angry at you for calling his watch fake.

You don't need him on the premises.


*one man's criminal is of course anoyher man's hero to the multitude of fake (sorry 'rep') lovers on here, of course. Who don't own fakes to pass them off as real. Just doesn't happen. Right guys?

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You should pop up to Chester some time.....I've seen Haywoods security guys quite a few times......whenever I've been in his shop, they're always extremely polite and helpful......BUT I'm glad I ain't a criminal....IYSWIM...

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

He wouldn't let it lie : "The clock is true because before I sartifikat and box but nyakadesam them lost and not find them, I want to ask what price will you give me for it, thank you. if you want to meet I can get it to look at it real."

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Seriously ?

How stupid are some people ?

You are trying to sell a fake watch to watch experts ! Obviously it isnt going to work.

You don't want him coming to you shop, that's not carpet, it's a wrist shot ! :glee:

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Originally Posted by DB9yeti

Better not to engage Haywood; he's either a criminal* trying to pass off a snide watch or a man soon to be very angry at you for calling his watch fake.

You don't need him on the premises.


*one man's criminal is of course anoyher man's hero to the multitude of fake (sorry 'rep') lovers on here, of course. Who don't own fakes to pass them off as real. Just doesn't happen. Right guys?

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You were confused again I think and conflating two things; the simple ownership and enjoyment of a replica watch (or "fake" if you like), and attempting to defraud someone with one. I'm thinking you'll also find this a bit hard to understand unfortunately, but there's no particular reason for the rep (sorry 'fake') lovers to find this any less contemptible than you do.

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Originally Posted by monogroover

the usual pathetic attempt at justification from a fake collector

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I understand perfectly. You seem to fail to grasp the reality outside of your rep/snide forums.

Fakes are built to deceive. No other purpose. Perhaps you're only deceiving yourself, but your 'rep' buddies are out there trying to rip people off.

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Originally Posted by MarkO

But if the watch is with Rolex - don't the rules of that country apply? Admittedly it would have to a good enough fake to get past an AD to end up in the hands of Rolex. Perhaps more of a franken build from real parts than an out and out fake.

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You mean Rolex Switzerland? In Switzerland I doubt that the terms and conditions of a warranty contract between a private company and a private individual override the rule of law governing property. However it may be that Rolex, just as it's done in America, has done a private deal with the Swiss government that allows them special status and control they have over the use of the name and the coronet - and what to do with fakes that display them.

(This was always something that puzzled me about America - the toughest consumer nation on earth, and yet they let some foreign company do a private deal with US customs. Weird)

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Originally Posted by andrew

You mean Rolex Switzerland? In Switzerland I doubt that the terms and conditions of a warranty contract between a private company and a private individual override the rule of law governing property. However it may be that Rolex, just as it's done in America, has done a private deal with the Swiss government that allows them special status and control they have over the use of the name and the coronet - and what to do with fakes that display them.

(This was always something that puzzled me about America - the toughest consumer nation on earth, and yet they let some foreign company do a private deal with US customs. Weird)

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I believe that Rolex USA / Rolex Switzerland debacle is no longer in effect though. It used to be that you couldn't import a Rolex into the US, but that is no longer the case.

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

The cheeky Wot-Not has just been into one of my stores with it, asking for an offer !

Go on, out with you! Shoo! We don't want your type in here! This shop has too nice a carpet for you!

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Haywood, could you forward me the gentleman's details. I've got a lovely remnant that I'm sure would work with that watch.