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Linn LP12 turntable Klimax spec, Moon 610LP phono stage, Moon 430HA headphone amp, plus Focal Utopias headphones. Just need an extra shelf for my equipment rack to arrive in order to install the Moon 600i V2 integrated amp to connect to my PMC twenty5.23s. This evening, Saxon live to be followed by Bob Seger. But the phono stage takes 500 hours to run in!
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Looks good, all you need now is upgrade to AudioQuest power cables :grief:
Like Fire? Did that already on the XLR interconnects. £3,000 a metre! But got a deal. Chord Signatures on the RCAs.Quote:
Originally Posted by VDG
Fellow pmc twenty5 23 owner here ;-)
Great speakers. I love their range for such a compact size. Then again, Fact 8s or 12s or ATC SCM50s are calling!Quote:
Originally Posted by speedypro1111
Go pretty low especially for the size but personally I think they’re a bit overrated mate
I run mine with exposure pre/power amps
But only stream these days with a Nas
Everything thru my phone
Saying that they are very compact and fit the space in my room so I’ll probably be keeping my pmc’s
Have Analysis plus solo crystal for my speaker, interconnects rca, lovely cables and lovely setup you have acquiredQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyman
PS Eclipse single drive speakers
Yep, the new Fact 12 Signatures are top of my list, but the industrial ATCs have a certain appeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedypro1111
You’ll need a big room forAtc 40/50s as you will already know and plenty of power
I go thru stages mate, mini mid life crisis as it were ;-) one minute watches then hifi then trials bikes etc
But I’m happy enough hifi wise where I am now
The little Pmc’s are a lovely looking speaker too mine are in walnut grills still sealed in plastic as never used them
Yep, bikes, cars, watches, boats.......The only permanents have been dogs!Quote:
Originally Posted by speedypro1111
That being said, I am pretty much there on the hifi front....speakers excepted!
I’m not alone then ...Lol
Lovely looking hifi and rackBtw Not to mention the Lp12 :-)
My boxes look a bit pre historical in comparison but still sound nice -to my ears anyway
Looks cool and it’s all good and well, but, I hope it’s getting tested with many a banging tune!
Glad you like.👍Quote:
Originally Posted by speedypro1111
- - - Updated - - -
You bet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
LP12 is nice. I had a modified Axis back in the day and would love an LP12 if I were to resurrect interest in vinyl. still in production I assume ?
My Klassik has proven great too, and hard to beat for the outlay these days, but being overtaken by connectivity etc, still love the sound through Bi-wired Katans.
On a plus side with my streaming music is cheap as I pick cd’s up on the Carboot sale for peanuts
Got fleetwood mac 25 years 4cd album the other week for 50p
And mentioning cables I picked up some old cable talk interconnects for £1 also
improved 3 and advanced3 I think they’re called
Not gotten round to trying them out yet though as I haven’t listened to a CD player or record deck in a good while
Oh yes, you can indeed buy a 12 to your spec and budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT
I live not far from the Linn factory and have had the dubious pleasure of meeting Mr Tiefenbrun.
I’d still buy an LP12 mind you.
I’m using Moon hardware with Proac speakers, I’m using Abbey Road Studio Connections cables in the system, designed in connection with Moon, worth a look.
Thats a lovely set of kit....
I have always liked the moon equipment - though only have a small dac of theirs.
Always wanted to get a set of PMCs - just never quite got round to it.
Currently I have a variety of bel canto as lyndorf gear with a random selection of speakers... but the majority of music is now streamed into a raspberry pii !
Cheers
Matt
PMC speakers are great, I have the PB1i as front L&R and they'll see me out, not my picture but exact same speakers
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What’s the Moon stuff like? I’m thinking of a new streamer and they do one in my price range but are a special order from the dealer so I won’t be able to listen to it before purchase.
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In a word, superb. French Canadian, so style but built like it will survive a maelstrom. Very natural, rich sound from my phono, amp and headphone amp. Highly recommended.Quote:
Originally Posted by rincewind
And now finished.
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V nice and enjoy but isn’t just a little OTT for the Spice Girls greatest hit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman
^^^^Nothing is too good for Mrs Beckham and her girls.😉
Quality, enjoy!
And to finish, ATC passive towers, SCM50, Anniversary Editions ordered today. Just got to wait three months for them to be handmade. But then they are truly beautiful.
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I would upgrade the LP12 before getting ATCs. I did it the wrong way round, and discovered just what a crap piece of engineering the Linn LP12 actually is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman
I'd recommend a Notts Analogue Dais, or an SME 20 (or even better an SME 30), but there's plenty of turntables better than the LP12, as you will discover if you look.
P.S. Sorry wrote this before seeing you'd ordered the ATCs. Great choice, I have the 150 Tower Annis.
Gosh and I thought I went over the top with a few little cyrus boxes and spendor sa1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard
That could turn a village hall into a club lol.
Thanks. They are beautiful. Not sure I agree re the Linn though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Holsterman
LP12 owners never do, they reassure themselves that the Ariston RD 11 with a wig on it is the apogee of TT design and engineering. I've heard all specs of LP12 including the top spec at Linn's factory quite a few times (and I owned two different LP12s) and I can assure you it is several decades behind the better decks, this is clearly audible and obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman
Get used to the LP12 sound when the ATCs arrive, then do some auditions. The ATCs deserve way better.
I have to ask why does the phono stage need 500hrs to run in, what actually changes during that time? Are you saying the manufacturer is selling equipment that does not perform straight out of the box?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman
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High-end component “burn-in” has long been a fact of life. I have had the same with Linn, Naim and other kit. Interestingly, the run in periods for the Moon gear range from 300 to 500 hours depending on the item (headphone amp, integrated amp, phono stage).Quote:
Originally Posted by ALindsay
Component burn-in is just one of the many pseudoscience claims that have completely derailed the audio industry in recent decades. Marketing and BS fuels the industry for the most part and puts off many newcomers to the hobby who question some of the dogma that exists and lose interest.
That’s a (highly fuelled) view I guess. Whether it is right or wrong, I am unconcerned. I just like to listen. Should the quality of playback from my set-up improve over time, from what is currently just sublime in my opinion, then all the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by mondie
Agree totally Skyman, whether real or placebo, if your enjoyment increases over time the end result is the same.
Same page then! I am interested in the background to your original comments. What has gone wrong with the hifi market?Quote:
Originally Posted by mondie
Electro-acoustic engineering’s fundamentals have not altered or evolved since science fully resolved its understanding of the principles in the mid-20th century. With 50 years of further evolution since you could expect that today's loudspeaker systems would get you closer than ever before to musical nirvana. But they havent, we now have speakers claiming to be full range with 6" drivers (just use more of them!), a triumph of marketng over physics. Much of modern high-end Hi-Fi is not even all that interested in authentic sound reproduction, but more about impressing in the short term whilst looking pretty.
I have been an audio and music enthusiast since my pre-teens and generally speaking, my experience is that high end audio is very much a faith based, placebo driven cult, which has been out of touch with reality and technical progress for a very long time. Sadly, the modern industry is overrun with marketing, nonsense and dogma which have no basis in science. Its a dying hobby and thats a shame as many people will never get to experience the elation and emotion fantastic sound reproduction can create.
Thanks for that detail. In fact, your final sentence strikes a massive chord. Elation and emotion - they are both at the core of my musical experience and desire. Strangely, whilst my main set up has cost me £50k plus, my JBL mini box delivers much of the thrill when I am gardening for an outlay of less than £40!Quote:
Originally Posted by mondie
All completely true, good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mondie
Yes, I agree basically. Of interest, I recall Naim banging on about running in, plugs, sockets, cables etc. etc.* Great equipment no doubt but did themselves no favors spouting off as such imo. When I bought a CDS3 the dealer delivered it, plugged in and put a CD on. He then proclaimed 'perfect straight out of the box"Quote:
Originally Posted by Holsterman
* I also had occasion to visit Naim and recall seeing a modest set up in the reception area with all mains leads plugged in one wall socket via domestic adaptors, very Heath Robinson, but sounded OK to me.
BTW: I gave up on Pink Fish many years ago and feel all the better for it!
Naim is a prime example of a marketing-led hi-fi company, as is Linn for that matter. I bought into this mythology big-time back in the day, and I still have a CDS2 and a NAC 52, although the 52 has been heavily-modified (so that it now works properly, and I have imaging!).Quote:
Originally Posted by ALindsay
I read the OT bit of pfm now and then.
I was never convinced by the ‘burn- in’ theory, pseudo- science in my opinion. However, where something flexes or moves, such as a speaker cone or audio cartridge, there may be a period of ‘ settling’ or running in.
I think the last paragraph from Mondies post sums it up, people don’t know what they’re missing. In hi- fi terms my set- up us humble, a late 80s Thorens turntable with a £250 cartridge and a £200 pre- amp, Arcam A85/P85 amps, an Arcam FMJ 36 CD player and a newish pair of Monitor Audio silver 200 speakers. To my ears this produces excellent sound, mist of my listening is done using a cheaper set- up in my workroom but it’s nice to get the real experience of listening on the big system. I recommissioned the turntable last year and I’m amazed how good some of the old vinyl sounds.
To a hi- fi enthusiast my systems nothing special, but none of my friends/ family have anything that gets close to it, they just don’t ‘do’ hi- fi any longer. Convenience, streaming, downloads, it’s taken over, and the youngsters thesedays don’t even grasp the concept of sound quality, they understand big TV sets and surround sound but that’s the limit.
The law of diminishing returns applies to Hi Fi, I’ve never got into the high- end spending thing and I’ve never been impressed by the bullshit. Some of the Hi Fi magazine articles are laughable, but they’re very existence was reliant on the advertising revenue from the super- products they reviewed so maybe it’s no surprise!
Agree entirely. I'm from an electronics engineering background and have worked for a leading recording studio (in it's day), then a reputable mixing console manufacturer and then a sound system installer.Quote:
Originally Posted by mondie
There is certainly a big advantage in spending £2/3k vs £500 on a system but once past that figure the returns are infinitesimal. And the cable hype is unbelievable. Electrons travel down copper wire. The least resistance the better but spending more than a few quid a metre is madness. I've wired studio speaker systems up with 4mm twin and earth cable as it's copper and low resistance.
A major problem with modern systems is people spending all that money then connecting with Bluetooth which is the weakest link. You might as well spend £150 on an amp if your source is being bluetoothed into it.
You only have to see the 100% to 300% mark ups in the trade to realise how uncompetitive it really is. As for bespoke stuff, most of the high price tag comes because they don't make many of them, not because they are the best.
As time goes by, you get to know how bad even the early Quad stuff was but boy was it hyped in it's day and has a huge nostalgic premium attached today.
Oi, leave Quad out of it! :icon_biggrin:
I think the 'run-in' theories have their basis partly on perception rather than just marketing.
I think the benefit many perceive after some time with a system comes from an accustomisation process. We simply get used to the balance of acoustics in a set-up and mistakenly attribute it to some bedding in of the hardware.
Just my tuppence.
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“There is certainly a big advantage in spending £2/3k vs £500 on a system but once past that figure the returns are infinitesimal”. Not sure I agree. The returns are diminishing, I admit. But not as you exaggerate though. I guess your work experience is a bit out of date. Thanks for sharing though.
I agree, it takes a while to reset your listening bias especially if you are used to a coloured sound or have spent years with an unchanged system, Burn-in is part cognitive (expectation bias) and part the ears adjusting to a new sound balance or tone. It is one of the main reasons why people 'upgrading' often find themselves making changes they later regret due to not spending enough time evaluating a new component before making the change.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefmcd