Seiko 8L35

This may have been asked before but what makes the 8L35 such a high grade movement that it is only seen in watches costing £2.5k+. I know it is an undecorated Grand Seiko movement so exclusivity plays a bit part in the price. However, compared to the likes of ETA and Sellita etc., is the 8L35 really that much better than for example ETA 2892 (which is seen as the top of the line offering from ETA) in quality? Is the price mainly determined by the fact that it is not available to other manufacturers for their own watches?

I'm curious as to whether the 8L35 is really that much better than what ETA/Sellita can produce. Is this just a case of that's where it's positioned by Seiko so that's why it costs that much rather than it being higher quality than ETA's/Sellita's offerings?

I guess you could ask the same question of any in house movement in the same price range?

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Originally Posted by verv

I guess you could ask the same question of any in house movement in the same price range?

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That's true. Although it is somewhat justified, imo of course, if the movement is highly decorated. Also, part of the higher cost is due to the brand name on the dial but we can't say the same for Seiko which command very similar prices to some higher end brands.

Under the solid back is the in-house calibre 8L35, a high-end automatic movement based on the Grand Seiko calibre 9S55 and developed especially for diver’s watches. Beating at 4Hz and storing up to 50h of energy, it uses MEMS technology for the escape wheel and pallet fork and parts specifically developed to resist heat and cold. It is hand-assembled at the Shizukuishi Watch Studio in northern Japan and comes with a reported accuracy of -10/+15 seconds/day (slightly pessimistic, as many examples are reported to run much more precisely).

^ Just read that on a monochrome review posted in the 62mas thread.
Makes sense that it's positioned "over" ETA and Sellita if the above is the case.

Interestingly Seiko don't regard the new 6L movement as inferior to the 8L but it is superior to the 6R. All very confusing.

Now if Seiko forked out the money to pay for people to regulate their watches then that would be IMHO a game changer. No point building a F1 car and sticking a learner behind the wheel

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Originally Posted by ryanb741

Interestingly Seiko don't regard the new 6L movement as inferior to the 8L but it is superior to the 6R. All very confusing.

Now if Seiko forked out the money to pay for people to regulate their watches then that would be IMHO a game changer. No point building a F1 car and sticking a learner behind the wheel

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The 6L is also derived from Seiko's 4L movement which is the basis of the Soprod A10. So by inference the Soprod A10 is as good as the 8L. Soprod A10 (at least it used to be) is found on many lower priced models. I'm not sure of the exact differences and someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this...

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Originally Posted by Loki324

The 6L is also derived from Seiko's 4L movement which is the basis of the Soprod A10. So by inference the Soprod A10 is as good as the 8L. Soprod A10 (at least it used to be) is found on many lower priced models. I'm not sure of the exact differences and someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this...

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I was under the impression the 6L is an entirely new movement with new tooling? I could be wrong, I got my info from the Seiko forum on WUS

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Originally Posted by ryanb741

I was under the impression the 6L is an entirely new movement with new tooling? I could be wrong, I got my info from the Seiko forum on WUS

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I have looked into the new 6L movements and I believe this to be the case.

This article talks about the 4L/6L family of movements:
https://reference.grail-watch.com/family/seiko-4l/

From what I understand, the 6L is very similar to the 4L. I don't know what the actual differences are.

I guess it depends on whether the 4L is based on the 4R (I don’t think it is).

I think what makes the 8L different is the fact that it’s not mass produced in quite the same way at the 6/4R.

There’s a video on YouTube which analyses the technical merits of the 8L and whether it’s a good movement.

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Originally Posted by Loki324

I have looked into the new 6L movements and I believe this to be the case.

This article talks about the 4L/6L family of movements:
https://reference.grail-watch.com/family/seiko-4l/

From what I understand, the 6L is very similar to the 4L. I don't know what the actual differences are.

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King Seikos with 6R are £1700 in UK and King Seikos with 6L are £2900 indicating a significant difference between the 2

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Originally Posted by ryanb741

King Seikos with 6R are £1700 in UK and King Seikos with 6L are £2900 indicating a significant difference between the 2

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That is true and I agree that it is. However, we were discussing the differences between 6L and 8L...I don't know why 6R came into it?

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Originally Posted by ryanb741

King Seikos with 6R are £1700 in UK and King Seikos with 6L are £2900 indicating a significant difference between the 2

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Maybe Marketing?

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Originally Posted by boring_sandwich

Maybe Marketing?

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Probably applies to any watch sub £10k with an in house movement vs an ETA TBH!

Biggest advantage with these movements is a regulator with fine adjustment! There's a reason why Seikos are have tended to be poorly regulated, that's due to the lack of fine adjustment which makes regulating the watch a nightmare job. Thankfully they've copied the ETA design which is excellent. I worked on a Soprod A10 a couple of years back and I was fairly impressed.

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Biggest advantage with these movements is a regulator with fine adjustment! There's a reason why Seikos are have tended to be poorly regulated, that's due to the lack of fine adjustment which makes regulating the watch a nightmare job. Thankfully they've copied the ETA design which is excellent. I worked on a Soprod A10 a couple of years back and I was fairly impressed.

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In my limited experience of Seiko 4R/6R movements, they seem well regulated. I don't have any issues with them but I'm aware other people have.

Do you tend not to regulate 4R/6R movements due to a lack of fine adjustment?

https://youtube.com/@hal0eight

This guy's does a teardown of an 8l35. Which is interesting to see.

It's also worth remembering that the divers utilizing this movement weren't always such a premium but sadly, Seiko have followed suite of all other Swiss brands. Has the movement changed, not from my understanding. As others have mentioned, "in-house" can attract further premiums as opposed to outsourcing movements and decorating "in-house" but is it better, probably not, in real world terms.

Is the premium worth it today however, that's the never ending question and ultimately, only the individual can decide.

As an aside, I am of the opinion 6R movements are utter shite having owned one for years and hence, I don't buy Seiko's with either 4R or 6R movements anymore. It doesn't mean they ARE shite it means i would rather an ETA/Sellita for the same sort of money.

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Originally Posted by stix

It's also worth remembering that the divers utilizing this movement weren't always such a premium but sadly, Seiko have followed suite of all other Swiss brands. Has the movement changed, not from my understanding. As others have mentioned, "in-house" can attract further premiums as opposed to outsourcing movements and decorating "in-house" but is it better, probably not, in real world terms.

Is the premium worth it today however, that's the never ending question and ultimately, only the individual can decide.

As an aside, I am of the opinion 6R movements are utter shite having owned one for years and hence, I don't buy Seiko's with either 4R or 6R movements anymore. It doesn't mean they ARE shite it means i would rather an ETA/Sellita for the same sort of money.

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Do you have the same view on Miyota movements? i.e. do you think they are as bad as Seiko 4R/6R movements?

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Originally Posted by Loki324

Do you have the same view on Miyota movements? i.e. do you think they are as bad as Seiko 4R/6R movements?

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No I don't have the same opinion on Miyota. My experience to date has been good and far better than the Seiko 4R/6R options however, I haven't had extensive use, as yet.

A seasoned WIS friend also shares the same opinion on the Seiko 4R/6R movements but is more willing to buy them, as he likes the designs and styles they offer.

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Originally Posted by bva

https://youtube.com/@hal0eight

This guy's does a teardown of an 8l35. Which is interesting to see.

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Cheers!