Chinese knock offs get thigs right

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8th November 2023, 17:19
bubi

Chinese knock offs get thigs right

Hi guys,

I am amazed at how chinese knock off are getting so many things right, wis community wise, which the big brands are not.

I am thinking about the tudor ranger.

First release in 39mm with straight end links. Why?

Second release with fitted sel, good but no cigar. Still too big.

Chinese knock offs come out earlier with a 36mm version.
Also available with applied indices.

More...

BB36, Tudor version with glossy black dial and flat sapphire.

Chinese knock offs with mat dial and domed top hat sapphire.

Second Tudor release: sunburst dial. And diamonds.

Yeah... I can feel the chinese reading this post right now and giggling while the swiss are feasting on cheese an schnapps.

An then there's Seiko with the expensive skx007 no screw down crown and 10ATM.

Chinese knock off with screw down crown and 20ATM. And Sapphire. And.. uh oh... seiko movement.

Now I have to go, I don't want to be late for my Cantonese lessons.

Sent from my SM-M325FV using Tapatalk
8th November 2023, 17:46
Foxy100

A few years ago a friend of mine tried to have some non-watch parts made in China and gave up because he couldn't get it through to the manufacturer that he wanted exact replicas of what he'd sent over, not for them to improve some faults and try to supply better versions!

It sounds good though. I always wanted a 6309-7040 with 20mm lugs, I wonder if someone can make me a new case that's a perfect replica in every other way.
8th November 2023, 19:11
Geralt

Someone's having a Turkish

For around £200 you can have various models with:

316L Stainless steel case with screw-in solid caseback and excellent finishing
200m WR
120 click bezel with black ceramic insert
Sapphire crystal with AR coating on the inside
BGW9 lumed indices and hands
Screw-down crown
316L solid stainless steel Oyster-style bracelet

What's not to like? Good luck to them I say.
8th November 2023, 19:30
Saxon007

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubi

Hi guys,

I am amazed at how chinese knock off are getting so many things right, wis community wise, which the big brands are not.

I am thinking about the tudor ranger.

First release in 39mm with straight end links. Why?

Second release with fitted sel, good but no cigar. Still too big.

Chinese knock offs come out earlier with a 36mm version.
Also available with applied indices.

...

The first Ranger release with straight end links was 41mm. It was too big for most folks and the straight end links were a lazy implementation. Based on its rather quick discontinuation I'd rate it as a failure.

The 39mm Ranger with fitted SELs is a perfect size for most folks, certainly not too big for a field watch. I would argue that 36mm is too small for most men's taste, or at least most that are younger than the Boomers or Gen Xers. And applied indices on the Ranger is akin to tits on a boar hog - completely unnecessary. The Ranger isn't built to be blingy or fancy, they have other watches filling that niche.

I've owned one Chinese watch years ago. A few months after I bought it (and had hardly worn it) the crown stem broke while setting it. A waste of $150 so no more of them for me.
8th November 2023, 20:28
bwest76

Well I think the first Ranger was a winner and have kept mine.

https://i.postimg.cc/3xP7G7bR/IMG-6764.jpg
8th November 2023, 20:45
Linocut

Blue and green “pelagos” 39’s vs Tudor’s underwhelming black fxd…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
8th November 2023, 22:42
earlofsodbury

It's easy to make cheap variants when Western companies are doing all your R&D and marketing for you, and you can have things built by near-slave labour in internment camps in your wonderful human rights-free dictatorship...

Sales are risk-free, too, as you won't be paying any tax in the importing country, and you don't have to provide a warranty or any sort of support...

Yeah, well done China...
8th November 2023, 22:45
ralphy

... and they don't worry about copyright infringement either.

R
9th November 2023, 06:13
Saxon007

By failure I should have emphasized I was referring to sales, not the actual watch. Your wrist is large enough for a good fit and on a strap (as opposed to the bracelet) it is a handsome watch. I like the dial with its lighter lume and smiley text better than the dial on the 39mm version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwest76

Well I think the first Ranger was a winner and have kept mine.

https://i.postimg.cc/3xP7G7bR/IMG-6764.jpg
9th November 2023, 09:49
Mj2k

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxy100

A few years ago a friend of mine tried to have some non-watch parts made in China and gave up because he couldn't get it through to the manufacturer that he wanted exact replicas of what he'd sent over, not for them to improve some faults and try to supply better versions!

It sounds good though. I always wanted a 6309-7040 with 20mm lugs, I wonder if someone can make me a new case that's a perfect replica in every other way.

Haha brilliant!
9th November 2023, 10:08
learningtofly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geralt

Someone's having a Turkish

For around £200 you can have various models with:

316L Stainless steel case with screw-in solid caseback and excellent finishing
200m WR
120 click bezel with black ceramic insert
Sapphire crystal with AR coating on the inside
BGW9 lumed indices and hands
Screw-down crown
316L solid stainless steel Oyster-style bracelet

What's not to like? Good luck to them I say.

Good luck to them, you say? Maybe you're on the wrong forum then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlofsodbury

It's easy to make cheap variants when Western companies are doing all your R&D and marketing for you, and you can have things built by near-slave labour in internment camps in your wonderful human rights-free dictatorship...

Sales are risk-free, too, as you won't be paying any tax in the importing country, and you don't have to provide a warranty or any sort of support...

Yeah, well done China...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphy

... and they don't worry about copyright infringement either.

R
9th November 2023, 10:14
Passenger

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlofsodbury

It's easy to make cheap variants when Western companies are doing all your R&D and marketing for you, and you can have things built by near-slave labour in internment camps in your wonderful human rights-free dictatorship...

Sales are risk-free, too, as you won't be paying any tax in the importing country, and you don't have to provide a warranty or any sort of support...

Yeah, well done China...

They also sell rather a lot of EV's though and nobody seems remotely concerned re the 'uman rights, possible use of slave labour...funny old world.
9th November 2023, 10:15
sinner77

Srsly?

High moral ground on Smiths/Precista/Senraw forum?

Srsly?
9th November 2023, 10:16
Passenger

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinner77

Srsly?

High moral ground on Smiths/Precista/Senraw forum?

Srsly?

Funny old world like I said.
9th November 2023, 10:17
gunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinner77

Srsly?

High moral ground on Smiths/Precista/Senraw forum?

Srsly?

:popcorn2:
9th November 2023, 10:32
P9CLY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passenger

They also sell rather a lot of EV's though and nobody seems remotely concerned re the 'uman rights, possible use of slave labour...funny old world.

100% correct.Amazing how some people are happy to accept many of China's offerings,and yet some stuff are all produced in sweat shops by young children!!!......watches its seems on a watch forum.
Probably clothing if on a clothes forum hey.

Cars too....ya think.

Lets just say everything to keep it simple,much easier to live or not live with and save all the moral argument from those who don't buy any Chinese products....yeah right.
9th November 2023, 10:40
Passenger

Quote:

Originally Posted by P9CLY

100% correct.Amazing how some people are happy to accept many of China's offerings,and yet some stuff are all produced in sweat shops by young children!!!......watches its seems on a watch forum.
Probably clothing if on a clothes forum hey.

Cars too....ya think.

Lets just say everything to keep it simple,much easier to live or not live with and save all the moral argument from those who don't buy any Chinese products....yeah right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...d-labor-china/
But Tesla has been conspicuously silent when it comes to China, despite evidence that materials that go into its vehicles come from the Xinjiang region, where forced labor has been rampant. Firms that appear to undermine a U.S. ban on products made in Xinjiang emerge near the top of Tesla’s sprawling network of suppliers, according to a Washington Post examination of corporate records and Chinese media reports. Among them are companies that have openly complied with China’s quotas for moving minority Muslim Uyghurs out of rural villages and into factory towns through what Chinese authorities call “labor transfers” or “surplus labor employment.”

What people do or do not's, down to personal choice.
9th November 2023, 14:24
bubi

Guys! Guys!
My point being some people who really want to sell are studying consumers well and giving them what they want. Fast.

Other people make stuff they like and try to sell that through. With the aid of persuasion (marketing and a big budget).

Also, interesting to see the emergence of chinese clone brands versus fakes.

Non wis buy the fakes (for status...), wis buy the product. And you can't make a fake rolex (or seiko) better than a real one. It would obviously be a fake... Hence, the chinese brand.

Or... the microbrand (from a non asian ountry).

A while back I bought the BB36. I watched the shop everyday and shot right in when it arrived.
The 36mm everest did not exist yet.
It would have saved me a couple of grand.

I have both, of course.

Had the launches been the other way round I guess I would only have one.

Ciao

Sent from my SM-M325FV using Tapatalk
9th November 2023, 16:02
chrisparker

With the downgrade of some recent Panerai movements, and the Brooklyn Bridge, and other poor boutique 'special editions', some might say buying a Chinese Panerai could often be better than a real one.

This is a genuine Panerai special edition...

https://watchesbysjx.com/wp-content/...16/03/318n.jpg
9th November 2023, 16:37
Fullbreakfast

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisparker

With the downgrade of some recent Panerai movements, and the Brooklyn Bridge, and other poor boutique 'special editions', some might say buying a Chinese Panerai could often be better than a real one.

This is a genuine Panerai special edition...

https://watchesbysjx.com/wp-content/...16/03/318n.jpg

Considering the money they charge that does seem a little rude.
9th November 2023, 17:10
j111dja

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullbreakfast

Considering the money they charge that does seem a little rude.

It caused Panerai a lot of grief and embarrassment when this surfaced on Paneristi back in the day.
9th November 2023, 17:44
robert75

Is that Panerai you are showing from years ago? Likewise the Brooklyn Bridge thing, hardly fair considering back then they were also considerably cheaper than they are now. Now they have gone "in house" and are charging accordingly.

Also is what you are showing us not a Unitas movement? One of the most tried and trusted movements out there, the movement Dornbluth base their modified movements on. Personally being the owner of several watches with Unitas movements in different levels of modification I would rather that than some in house movement thats going to cost a fortune to service and can only go back to one place to do so.

Re Chinese "replica" or homage or whatever term thats used, in my experience you are very much getting what you pay for. There is a very good reason that as soon as you see brands like Steeldive on the forum as the next best thing/rival to Seiko etc people rush out to buy them then they are on SC faster than you can say "Should have bought the original!"

The most noticeable thing I find with such brands is the finish is dreadful, crowns that are sharp or crown stems that dont screw down properly, poor print on the dial, hands poorly put together list is endless. You can even see on places like ali express you can choose a menu and someone will put the watch together for you. They are good enough for what they are as a bit of a hobby or learning how to put a watch together but seriously, if you are talking about the new Seiko 5's that have replaced the old 007 they are 100m WR without a screw down crown so fine for swimming if you want just how many owners of the 007 were either military divers or going scuba diving in their spare time?
9th November 2023, 18:52
j111dja

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert75

Is that Panerai you are showing from years ago? Likewise the Brooklyn Bridge thing, hardly fair considering back then they were also considerably cheaper than they are now. Now they have gone "in house" and are charging accordingly.

It's more than fair. They were $4000 a pop fourteen years ago (if I remember correctly), and that was with a crudely finish £70 Unitas movement, as per the photograph shown in the thread. They deserved all they got back then. It was an utter disgrace.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/i...m318l.2522938/
9th November 2023, 19:54
robert75

Quote:

Originally Posted by j111dja

It's more than fair. They were $4000 a pop fourteen years ago (if I remember correctly), and that was with a crudely finish £70 Unitas movement, as per the photograph shown in the thread. They deserved all they got back then. It was an utter disgrace.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/i...m318l.2522938/

Thats a link to a 13 year old thread, the Brooklyn bridge was a limited edition not one of their general sale watches and they got load of stick back then but again, whats that got to do with comparing knock off watches with current brands?

By the way have you owned one of those Steeldive Panerai "homage" watches or similar? I have and if you think they are on a level with a current Panerai I have a Brooklyn Bridge, Big Ben and the statue of liberty to sell you.
9th November 2023, 20:05
Toshk

Chinese knock offs get thigs right

Not at a knock off, but Chinese made. Assembled and QC in France apparently. £184 plus import fees.

Superb quality and performance for the money. Bezel action especially.

316L Monnin case. Super clear sapphire. +1 second over almost two weeks now. Seiko Mecaquartz inside.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2f3d09a0b7.jpg
9th November 2023, 20:20
j111dja

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert75

Thats a link to a 13 year old thread, the Brooklyn bridge was a limited edition not one of their general sale watches and they got load of stick back then but again, whats that got to do with comparing knock off watches with current brands?

By the way have you owned one of those Steeldive Panerai "homage" watches or similar? I have and if you think they are on a level with a current Panerai I have a Brooklyn Bridge, Big Ben and the statue of liberty to sell you.

It was a 13 year old thread based on a watch sold for $4000 in 2009 with a crude, cheap $100 Unitas movement in a limited edition model. Everyone knows how embarrassing it was for Panerai back then.

You mentioned the Brooklyn Bridge thing being hardly fair. I'm just responding to your comments.

I've never owned a Steeldive Panerai homage, thanks. I bet it has a better finished movement than the Brooklyn Bridge. :-)
9th November 2023, 20:27
robert75

Quote:

Originally Posted by j111dja

It was a 13 year old thread based on a watch sold for $4000 in 2009 with a crude, cheap Unitas movement in a limited edition model. Everyone knows how embarrassing it was for Panerai back then.

You mentioned the Brooklyn Bridge. Not me. I'm just responding to your comments.

I've never owned a Steeldive Panerai homage but I bet it has a better finished movement than the Brooklyn Bridge at $4k.

Actually forum member Chrisparker mentioned the Brooklyn Bridge, you seem to have taken my response to him out of context and fixated on a 13 year old limited edition thats no longer in production.

Sounds like you have had a bad experience with Panerai in the past TBH.
9th November 2023, 20:58
j111dja

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert75

Actually forum member Chrisparker mentioned the Brooklyn Bridge, you seem to have taken my response to him out of context and fixated on a 13 year old limited edition thats no longer in production.

Sounds like you have had a bad experience with Panerai in the past TBH.

He did make a comment about the Brooklyn Bridge but as I have already said, I was solely responding to your comments....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...62491d38e6.jpg

I've never had a bad experience with Panerai. I am a Panerai owner though and nothing beats a good moan about Panerai. They've had plenty of stick over the years. The majority of their in-house movements look fairly crude and basic to me apart from the Angelus calibres of course.

Right, Chinese movements and Chinese watches ..........

The only movement I own in a few of my Chinese watches at the moment is the Chinese made PT5000 and all are running at no more than +2 and no more than 0.2 beat error. It's a 28,800 bph movement too. (Seiko can't compete with the movement at the price point). They are built so well too. I've actually recommended them to other forum members.

I can see where Bubi (the OP) is coming from.
9th November 2023, 22:48
chrisparker

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert75

Is that Panerai you are showing from years ago? Likewise the Brooklyn Bridge thing, hardly fair considering back then they were also considerably cheaper than they are now. Now they have gone "in house" and are charging accordingly.

Yes it's from years ago but they don't seem to learn.

About that "in house"...

https://perezcope.com/2021/08/08/pan...-pam-of-worms/
9th November 2023, 23:23
peter2704

didnt panerai offer to replace the movements for free, some did the swap some didnt .The duff movements ones then became more collectable for a while???
9th November 2023, 23:46
bitt3n

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisparker

Yes it's from years ago but they don't seem to learn.

About that "in house"...

https://perezcope.com/2021/08/08/pan...-pam-of-worms/

this reads as a quasi-comical account of brazen chicanery

I love the part where they appear to use a display caseback to save on gold but then, not wishing to actually display the monkey business that lies beneath, they tint the glass and draw squiggly lines all over it
10th November 2023, 01:34
Fullbreakfast

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisparker

Yes it's from years ago but they don't seem to learn.

About that "in house"...

https://perezcope.com/2021/08/08/pan...-pam-of-worms/

Fascinating. I can see I’ll be spending some time reading up on Perez’s material.
10th November 2023, 07:58
learningtofly

Shame they screwed up with that one, because they produce some beautiful watches. I love Panerai, personally.
10th November 2023, 09:44
Rob Leeds

[QUOTE=Toshk;6303599]Not at a knock off, but Chinese made. Assembled and QC in France apparently. £184 plus import fees.

Superb quality and performance for the money. Bezel action especially.

316L Monnin case. Super clear sapphire. +1 second over almost two weeks now. Seiko Mecaquartz inside.

Looks good.
What model is this please.
10th November 2023, 10:27
bitt3n

[QUOTE=Rob Leeds;6303794]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toshk

Not at a knock off, but Chinese made. Assembled and QC in France apparently. £184 plus import fees.

Superb quality and performance for the money. Bezel action especially.

316L Monnin case. Super clear sapphire. +1 second over almost two weeks now. Seiko Mecaquartz inside.

Looks good.
What model is this please.

https://www.hgp-watches.com/
10th November 2023, 18:41
Rob Leeds

[QUOTE=bitt3n;6303825]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Leeds

https://www.hgp-watches.com/

Thanks.
11th November 2023, 14:38
Rev-O

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toshk

Not at a knock off, but Chinese made. Assembled and QC in France apparently. £184 plus import fees.

Superb quality and performance for the money. Bezel action especially.

316L Monnin case. Super clear sapphire. +1 second over almost two weeks now. Seiko Mecaquartz inside.

Monnin or "Monnin"? Copying the design doesn't equate to copying the quality. With the Chinese watches I've owned it's been the case that lets them down; I miss the days when Eddie et al. used Fricker and Kemmner to make their cases in Europe.
11th November 2023, 14:46
Toshk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev-O

Monnin or "Monnin"? Copying the design doesn't equate to copying the quality. With the Chinese watches I've owned it's been the case that lets them down; I miss the days when Eddie et al. used Fricker and Kemmner to make their cases in Europe.

I think this one is quite good. Finished very well with perfect screw down. Absolutely no gaps around the crown.

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