Cars and Oil

Hi all - looking for any advice or guidance from the car-knowledgeable on here. Had a wonderfully fun start to the day with some tapping sounds from our Toyota Verso engine. The car, it turns out, has no oil in it but no leaks or oil has been seen on our drive (it’s always parked in the same place).

I quickly bought a litre of oil and sent the wife off on her way while I got the later train. She’s going to take it to Halfords near her work and get the full 4.5lts loaded.

She is naturally now talking of new cars and how to get rid of this one.

The car is 11 years old and at around 95,000 miles so has had a good life. I was wondering if this is “ok” to lose oil - I spouted some probable nonsense around oil getting into the combustion via worn piston rings but would happily update her with some actual facts!

Am I miles off or is there weight to her argument that a new car is needed? <sigh!>


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Has there been noticeable blue smoke from the exhaust? That would indicate burning of oil.
When was the last time it was topped up?
It can evaporate over time but I don’t think I have ever seen an engine go dry as a result.
I should stress I am not any where near a mechanic, but do potter on old engines.

I check mine every couple of weeks - it never uses any but always check
Is you wife going for an oil and filter change at Halfords (I guess)?
Did you put the correct oil in the car ?

We haven’t seen anything odd from the exhaust but haven’t been checking - I’ll train my rear dashcam on it!

Oil was checked way way back in November and it was nice and full back then.

Oil types - now there’s a whole kettle of fish - it apparently (early morning google searches while stood over the open bonnet in the train station car park with an irate wife) takes 5w30. Further searches show that it needs 5w30m - not sure what the m denotes, but Amazon and Halfords show the 5w30ll is not compatible.

I’m hopeful the trip to Halfords will be to pick up the oil - the car was serviced in November and I like to check everything on its return.


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Modern cars tend to burn very little oil, but they will burn a small amount and that will increase if the engine has done a lot of miles. Unfortunately, in this case, there's a risk that significant damage has already been done by running the car low on oil, hopefully changing the oil and refilling will yield no nasty noises. If the big end and mains bearings have worn the engine won't develop the correct oil pressure and lubrication to the top of the engine may suffer. Might be worth getting the oil pressure checked, if it's lower than it should be it may be worth selling the car and getting a replacement, taking advice from a Toyota mechanic who knows the engine would be wise.

My wife's Focus burns a little oil and has done since we bought it at 6 months old with less than 6000 miles, it's easy to overlook checking the oil level but it still should be done regularly. Waiting for the oil pressure warning light to come on isn't the way to monitor it!

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Originally Posted by poloman

We haven’t seen anything odd from the exhaust but haven’t been checking - I’ll train my rear dashcam on it!

Oil was checked way way back in November and it was nice and full back then.

Oil types - now there’s a whole kettle of fish - it apparently (early morning google searches while stood over the open bonnet in the train station car park with an irate wife) takes 5w30. Further searches show that it needs 5w30m - not sure what the m denotes, but Amazon and Halfords show the 5w30ll is not compatible.

I’m hopeful the trip to Halfords will be to pick up the oil - the car was serviced in November and I like to check everything on its return.


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The numbers just rate the oils viscosity (thickness) when cold and hot, the lower the number, the thinner the oil and the easier it will circulate. Whatever your manufacturer stipulates, go with it and don't deviate. Modern engines are very sensitive to this. I once had a garage put 5w30 instead of 5w20 in my car and the engine didn't like it at all!

Ah - hadn’t thought about the potential damage done so far - will get it booked in to Toyota (we have a service plan, likely doesn’t cover this but worth getting it checked out).

Thanks for the info about the oil too. I took the view that getting anything into it this morning was prudent over the alternative of sending my wife off with no oil, despite the temptation :)


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You might want to check your dashboard as low oil has come with a warning since I was a lad at least.
If dashboard is OK, book your wife for an eye test ;)

So - no oil level warning light or Low oil pressure light?

If it was sounding rattly this morning, you'd expect that last time you were out - you would get the LL or LP warning due to the engine having a lot of the oil circulating rather than sitting in the sump.

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Originally Posted by poloman

We haven’t seen anything odd from the exhaust but haven’t been checking - I’ll train my rear dashcam on it!

Oil was checked way way back in November and it was nice and full back then.

Oil types - now there’s a whole kettle of fish - it apparently (early morning google searches while stood over the open bonnet in the train station car park with an irate wife) takes 5w30. Further searches show that it needs 5w30m - not sure what the m denotes, but Amazon and Halfords show the 5w30ll is not compatible.

I’m hopeful the trip to Halfords will be to pick up the oil - the car was serviced in November and I like to check everything on its return.


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Believe VW, BMW specify 5w30m, other brands might specify 5w30ll. To be honest doubt it matters on such an old car, after all there didn’t used to be such a choice (the LL could even be LL01 or LL04).

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Originally Posted by poloman

Hi all - looking for any advice or guidance from the car-knowledgeable on here. Had a wonderfully fun start to the day with some tapping sounds from our Toyota Verso engine. The car, it turns out, has no oil in it but no leaks or oil has been seen on our drive (it’s always parked in the same place).

I quickly bought a litre of oil and sent the wife off on her way while I got the later train. She’s going to take it to Halfords near her work and get the full 4.5lts loaded.

She is naturally now talking of new cars and how to get rid of this one.

The car is 11 years old and at around 95,000 miles so has had a good life. I was wondering if this is “ok” to lose oil - I spouted some probable nonsense around oil getting into the combustion via worn piston rings but would happily update her with some actual facts!

Am I miles off or is there weight to her argument that a new car is needed? <sigh!>


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If what you've said is correct and it had no oil in it - and the car's been run like this for any distance - then yes, I'd be looking to swap it out sharpish. Doesn't really matter how the oil disappeared - you've run the car without lubrication and short of hydrolocking it, there's no better way to kill an engine. I've not had a car that burned any appreciable level of oil for at least the last 20 years - the worst was a VW Passat that used to get through a litre every three or four thousand miles.

There should be no way that you've burned through an entire engine-full since November, so I suspect that you've had a leak (a broken oil cooler pipe, that sort of thing) and so any new oil would also come straight out.

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted.

From experience you can have a car with “just” the amount of oil in it to not register on the dipstick but to “just” keep it from seizing but can make the hydraulic tappets rattle.


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I thought about the warning lights too - but nothing appeared on the dash at all.

The dip stick showed no oil, and the 1 litre from the garage barely appeared.

Wife has reported that she got to work ok so we’ll see how it goes on her return journey - I’m hoping it survives as I don’t relish the opportunity to become her taxi driver!


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Just chuck some oil in it.
It'll probably be fine, but obviously you need to establish why it's losing oil.
FWIW I had an old 70,000 mile scrap Honda 600 sports bike with a twist, out of curiosity I ran it without oil to see how long it would run before grenading itself. Sump plug out, and being abused mercilessly, it held out for almost 15 minutes before it went bang.
Testimony to oil development and how well engineered things are these days.

PCV valve maybe clogged and causing oil burning...easy and cheap to replace...may help or at least tick the box the box that its not that !

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Originally Posted by poloman

I thought about the warning lights too - but nothing appeared on the dash at all.

The dip stick showed no oil, and the 1 litre from the garage barely appeared.

Wife has reported that she got to work ok so we’ll see how it goes on her return journey - I’m hoping it survives as I don’t relish the opportunity to become her taxi driver!


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Not to ask a stupid question, but it was turned off when she checked the oil level? I cant image a engine with no oil would even run, yet alone get her to work.

I killed a Ford Escort once, when the orange alternator light came on - I kept the revs up to try and make as much charge as possible. Turned out the alternator light was red, and the orange light was oil ...

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Originally Posted by poloman

I thought about the warning lights too - but nothing appeared on the dash at all.

The dip stick showed no oil, and the 1 litre from the garage barely appeared.

Wife has reported that she got to work ok so we’ll see how it goes on her return journey - I’m hoping it survives as I don’t relish the opportunity to become her taxi driver!


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The dipstick normally tells you that you are about 1l short if on minimum, so if after adding 1l, you see at least something on the dipstick, you certainly will not be dry of oil.

I often watch the YouTube channel "The Car Care Nut" who is a ex Toyota AD mechanic and now has his own shop, he recommends every 5000 or 6 months whichever comes first for oil and filter change on Toyotas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJhF...=TheCarCareNut

Minimum to maximum on a dipstick is usually 1L, if 1L made it appear on the dipstick it wouldn’t be dry, damn low yes, all dependent on sump capacity from maybe down to 30% to 60% full, found many trade ins came low on oil but survived, no unusual noises should be ok, I wouldn’t trust Halfrauds to fill it with correct oil, Toyota should be ok, I hope. Good luck.

Thanks for all the top info - she is stuck at work (on call) so hasn't made it to Halfords so thats my job for tomorrow.

The engine was off when we checked - we'd driven it to the station which is about 5 minutes from home and noticed a rattling sound when accelerating, no lights on anywhere. Popped the bonnet and checked the oil with the engine off. Drove 2 minutes to the garage, swore profusely as the oil filler cap wouldn't come off so drove home, found some pliers and some rags to protect the plastic filler cap from the pliers and any overspill as we emptied the bottle. A couple of minutes later, something was on the dipstick so that'd be amazing if it was just below "low".

I'll watch that YouTube channel now - and give Toyota a call tomorrow too to be on the safe side.

If the car was serviced in November I wouldn’t expect it to be very low on oil in such a short space of time. Sensible way forward is to buy a 5 litre pack of the correct oil, top it up and monitor the level. Check for obvious leaks or drips on the driveway, there will be a simple answer to this conundrum. Possibly the right quantity of oil was never put in at the service?

OP needs to have a look under the car with a torch and see whether there’s anything that looks distinctly oily.

Took this thread as a prompt to check wifey’s Focus, sure enough it needed topping up.

I rang Toyota and they said it was fine - an old car with a decent mileage - they offered a consumption test - aka fill it with oil and come back in 1,000 miles.

walkerwek1958 - that's pretty much what I'm doing - got 5ltrs arriving soon and will be checking it regularly.

Wife is, despite assurances from Toyota, now looking at new cars :(

Sounds like they didn't put the correct amount of oil in in November. I reckon you'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by poloman

I rang Toyota and they said it was fine

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Sounds a bit like "Yeah, they all do that, mate". :untroubled:

Many years ago a colleague collected his car from an independent garage after a service and discovered they had forgotten to put any oil in after draining it!

Ever since I always check the oil level myself before leaving the garage after a service. I do feel a bit silly doing this but drive away with peace of mind. I discovered once that my oil had actually been overfilled so was able get this quickly rectified.

I then check my oil level every 1000 miles to keep an eye on things.

My colleagues Vauxhall Calibre suffered no ill effects after a short drive and hopefully the op will find the same.

Mrs T-7 had a Skoda Octavia on lease a while back. It was serviced according to the recommendations. One day the engine failed. We called the AA. First thing they checked was the oil level. There was basically hardly any oil in it. Long story short, it needed a new engine. When she got it back there were stickers everywhere. Under the bonnet, in the cockpit etc…..saying ‘check oil level daily’. I mean…..seriously?

Probably check my oil once a year between services.

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Originally Posted by hogthrob

Sounds a bit like "Yeah, they all do that, mate". :untroubled:

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This is exactly what the dealer said to me when I asked why my wife's toyata was burning a pint every thousand or so !!:-)

Her last two cars have been mazda 3s and evry time they have returned from a service they have only been filled to half way up the dipstick mark - a measured amount of oil as I understand it from the garage mechs


B

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Originally Posted by Kingstepper

Probably check my oil once a year between services.

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Cool!

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Originally Posted by Onelasttime

Cool!

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Thanks, though don't seem to worry about everything and have constant issues like you do.

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Originally Posted by Kingstepper

Thanks, though don't seem to worry about everything and have constant issues like you do.

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Totally cool! Like a cucumber.

Dipstick from low to top reads one litre of oil. If you put a litre in and it registered even just abit that confirms that your initial claim of engine that has oil capacity of 4.5 litres has no oil in it is incorrect.

I think that the latest question is - did the rattling noise stop after topping up the oil?

Had a mate with an old Jag which he parked on his very steep drive.
Correct oil level was about an inch on the dipstick.
Because of the steep angle at which his car was parked, it always showed nearly 2.
Mentioned it to his garage, the mechanic jokingly told him to cut about an inch off the bottom of the dipstick to sort it.
He actually did it.