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Two subs about the same age (early 2000s) and as near as dammit the same condition both with no service history.
Sub one complete full set papers/boxes etc.
Sub two head with bracelet only, no documentation, no boxes, no white tags etc.
What would the difference in value be approximately ?
Obviously we don't wear the box and papers so if being bought for a daily wearer does it make any difference ?
About 15-20% of value IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
A lot depends on your personal opinion and the value you put on such stuff. For me, I prefer full sets and happy to pay the premium it comes with even if they are watches I intend to wear. I think for the example you give (assuming both trade or both private sales) I would think ) £1500 difference.
I don't know about anyone else but when I see an expensive modern watch being offered for sale with no box or papers, it always raises a question in the back of my mind whether it might have been nicked at some point. I haven't bought one, and think it might make me a bit uncomfortable doing so. I know there are databases and such but even so I'd always have a niggling thought.
I would agree with 15-20%, but nearly all that value is in the long expired original guarantee, rather than the box and peripherals.
In terms of secure title to the watch, you can search the art loss register for £5 if you have the serial number. It’s not perfect, but I have done that with a private Chrono24 sale.
D
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I can get your assumption.........But not always.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullbreakfast
A friend who was left some money from his Mother bought 2 Rolex watches,One for his Wife & himself(16610).Bought brand new from the Rolex dealer many years ago.I said Id buy it years ago if He ever wanted to sell,obviously the sentimental reasons meant He never would.I saw the full set too.Sadly 18 months ago he died after a fall(drink related).
But months before this He mentioned he had misplaced the papers!.
So it does and can happen.
So maybe not always assume the worst.
£1500 for no papers!...lol...imo £1500 lower for the same watch is just plain mad.If just your opinion on what you would be happy paying fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by tz-uk73
If fact based then prove me wrong by showing any Rolex full set & same with NO papers for £1500 lower.
I think we all know Rolex have gone only one way!....Down in value.
When the opposite was true pre covid & everything else,it was always said Rolex are only going one way.....UP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullbreakfast
By coincidence I’m selling a 16610 and am reading this with interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by helidoc
20 year old watches are seldom a complete set. Normal (non wis/collectors) people just didnt care about keeping stuff like we do, and something 20 years old can conceivably gone through several sets of hands/several house moves/been inherited perhaps. There’s plenty of the proverbial “triggers brooms” around (and papers have been known to be “re manufactured” shall we say…….
I’ve put my watch up for £7100, which I think is a fair price with good provenance (although missing the original punched papers…..) but I can’t imagine a loose watch being offered for 20%/£1500 less….
20% is about right for no papers and 10% if it has recent (2 years) service papers.
Box and silly tags deduct £150 max as that what a replacement would be
Your watch pre covid would have been in the post now at substantially more.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJM25R
All you say about other non wis owners is spot on & something only people such as us read far too much into for the reasons as to why not a full set.
Great watch by the way at a very good price,but the very reason mine wont go on here for sale.
Glwts
I’d say for an early 2000 16610 it could be £7.25k watch only and £8.75k for a full set. Maybe a few hundred either way but hardly wildly out? Definitely not LoL wildly out?Quote:
Originally Posted by P9CLY
Also I see a few 20% above… isn’t that the same thing with £ sign?
Quote:
Originally Posted by P9CLY
I wouldn't assume the worst, it'd just be a niggling doubt. Not sure it is even particularly rational, but it is a feeling I have.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJM25R
Depends on the pricing at the dealer. If it’s £10k (and I see a few dealers “full set, full kit, collector, investment blah blah”) at that price or above….Quote:
Originally Posted by tz-uk73
100% agree at your values for full sets.But I dont agree,Quote:
Originally Posted by tz-uk73
or maybe better saying wouldn't have assumed £1500 less minus papers alone.
And with that your higher figure would see the full set 16610s sit gathering cobwebs as things are now and not be seen as a good buy at the £8750 you say.
I suppose it all depends on the asking price, I was looking at this and it seemed a good deal to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJM25R
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/rolex/rol...id32609907.htm
Makes sense I think…. I was definitely drawing a parallel between loose watch and complete full sets. Seems like you agree but don’t agree with the values, fair enough. I think most watches are a hard sell at the moment, Rolex included. Is any watch a good buy right now? Who knows but that’s a different conversation. £12-1500 or 15-20% seems to be the answer here.Quote:
Originally Posted by P9CLY
- - - Updated - - -
Looks nice,Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
Plus vat though?
Once you’ve added 20% on for the import tax it’s not that great a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
Agreed but it gives an idea of selling prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJM25R
£10k?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJM25R
£7,803 ?
It’s not attainable at that price though as it’s in Italy, so is subject to import tax plus delivery and postage so closer to £10k than £7803.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
The fact that it’s a seadweller and not a sub also muddies the water for a direct comparison.
There are 16610 on EBay for the £7000 mark, and some dealers at £8000 but again, aren’t complete sets from the hat I see.
Still, you pay your money and you make your choice .
A wider survey of dealers will reveal some cheaper examples than those apparently considered so far..
Strange how people in possession always want the inflated price picture at the fore..................Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton
and prospective buyers want the deflated price picture to the fore...............:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK
I haven’t seen that here though, generally people quoting what prices are available today. A quick market scan just now seems to align with dealer prices £8k upwards. True collector sets are more.
What sort of price range have you seen Haywood ? TIA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton
Hmmmm, perhaps by looking closer to home I could show you six or so 16610s —not yet sold—- which don’t support the price levels being claimed here.
Chrono24, Watchfinder etc make research easy…..but it is often flawed research, heavily weighted by those asking more than the market will actually bear.
Watches.co.uk are £9k plus
Kibble £8k
Watch finder cheapest is £8.25-£10.2
BQ £8750
Dom Hackett £8k
Chisholm £9.9
These are the cheapest b&p’s they have in stock from a quick scan. No skin in this game btw. I would buy another and been looking.
Blowers, fish, worthington none in stock…
Hm’s you can check out for yourself. Similar to a couple above
Certified pre owned £12.2. Yeah right!
Look again.Quote:
Originally Posted by tz-uk73
Less, and still not sold.
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton
I had seen that one and discounted… rest I saw were def lower end of what quoted above. I’d buy yours over any of the dealers above tbh and I think you price well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton
Prices have moved further than people are thinking here. Subdial is a good barometer. Fair enough, not amazing condition:
https://subdial.com/listing/rolex/su...nd-papers/5175
I’d think an excellent condition full set could be had for £8k from a dealer and a loose for £7.25-7.5k with negotiation.
Two faded Pepsi 16700s.Quote:
Originally Posted by P9CLY
One complete. One watch only.
3645k price difference.
B&P LV sold yesterday in need of some love but …
https://watchcollecting.com/for-sale...riner-kermit-7
Personally I think I would prefer one that showed it had had a gentle life (not abused) and wasn't a safe queen because I would want to wear it and if it was a minter I would hesitate to wear it for my daily, I treat my watches well even my beaters :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TKH
there seems to be a few around with dealers at reasonable prices - good condition with (most of the) B & P's advertised for around £8k - the stock that dealers advertise are usually in good condition, well they can be polished/worked on to improve the condition - generally and I say generally if the B & P are present the watch is more likely to be in a good condition and has been looked after - again I repeat "generally" as this forum will pick on any word and blow it out of proportion just because it's a Rolex thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
if you are not fussy about B & P then you should be able to pick one up in lesser a condition for less than £7k
I personally would go for a no-date, especially if you are to wear it less than "all the time" - I have a 16610 which I wear now and again and as a result I need to change the date each time I put it on - I much prefer my 5513 which is a no date Sub - (for other reasons as well)
Just my opinion, fwiw
As I had an idle, and really quite unnecessary virtual wander round some trusted used Rolex dealers, I see that Mike Wood at www.theoldwatchshop.com has a lovely loose two line 14060M for £6995.
D
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