Reply With QuoteJust followed you on Twitter, looking forward to seeing some more pics as your project progresses. Can't see any images in your post though for some reason
Started my next watch case.
I've got a big sheet of titanium so it's time to turn it into a watch.
Style will be like the lumaholic thread, but subtly different as it's metal, and machined.
I've made the start of the crystal bezel so far.
Ill try to post frequent updates, but twitter fits the do a bit post a snap more easily, so keep an eye there as well if your interested (@Solutionsbydave)
Dave
Just followed you on Twitter, looking forward to seeing some more pics as your project progresses. Can't see any images in your post though for some reason
I dont know why the pics arent visible there in the first post. I can see them - although they are attachments so maybe you need to click them?
Made pretty good progress this week, so here is a 'more in depth than twitter' update.
Once the basic ring is done its over to the Mill and rotary table to divide it up for 6 bolt holes.
First I spotted and counterbored all the hole positions:
then drilled through.
Came out nice :)
To hold the case parts together Ill be using M1.4 stainless bolts.
I have also made a jig to hold the bezel when I decide what profile to add to the outside edge.
I tapped the holes in this so I can bolt it down:
Then onto the middle plate of the case.
Marked out, and then centred in my large lathe to put in the movement space.
Center drilled prior to boring the hole to size:
The movement is a cheap chinese one. I intend to replace it with one Ive made once the case is done - that will be the next (major) project.
It fits the hole nicely:
Then the plate is centred on the rotary table so I can put in the 6 holes again. I also carefully linde up the 12 o'clock position for the top bolt hole. Little details are important.
I was very happy when the bezel fitted in any position in relation to the new plate. The holes are just clearance for the bolts, no sloppy assembly here.
Next I need to profile the case, drill and tap 6 holes in the backplate (not looking forward to tapping M1.4 in Ti) and profile that.
I've bought some low temperature enamelling powder to do the dial. I think a sunburst translucent blue will look very elegant.
This was my first attempt, and its not very good, but shows promise:
Stay tuned, here or on Twitter.
Dave
Update evening.... made the start of a case back.
A blank piece of Ti:
some marking out, whack into the rotary table and spot the holes:
The most stressful tapping I have ever done... M1.4 in titanium. I've done loads in aluminium - I used to make some micro helicopter parts.
All 6 Ok, and the tap is intact as well
All bolted together. All 6 holes line up, but I only put 2 in for the photo.
Not very elegant or watch shaped yet:
And its quite big... Orange Monster for comparison:
Up next the Dial.
Dave
Brilliant will keep coming back to catch up.
2 updates in an evening. You lucky people :)
Incidentally is anyone following this?
The Dial.
As mentioned earlier I plan to use some low temperature enamel in translucent blue. I need to do some practice pieces, but making the dial blank is straight forward.
Start with a squareish piece of shim steel, and mark a circle on it.
Seems I didn't take any photos of the actual cutting out, but its a simple case of jewellers saw and bench peg. I then filed a little to get a good fit in the case.
Bosh some holes in it. The centre one is obviously for the hands, the 2 side ones are 0.8mm for the dial feet.
silver solder the feet on. I used 0.8mm MIG wire. I bend it so the clamp can hold it, and the dial is supported. The silver solder is very small fine wire, which I bend into a ring and place round the wire under the flux. seems to work nicely.
I made a dial support block during the making of the Lumaholic watch (http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...m-a-Lumeaholic) Although I didn't post much of the making this watch will initially use the same movement (handy that ;) ).
So I supported the dial and rubbed it up and down a diamond stone for a bit. that knocks off the initial oxidisation from the soldering
A bit more work and the initial polish is on:
The Dial feet are invisible. I'm not sure whether to make it super polished before sunbursting it, or to go from about this much.
Dave
I'm following. Speechlessly.
Sent from my starship orbiting Uranus.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Good to know.
1 reader is enough, it means I'm not just typing for my own amusement....
Dave
I'm following with interest too!
So do I even though I'm very much useless. Just appreciating your creativity and skills.
Wow, just wow!
Subscribed. Good work.
Add another follower, all the way from Tokyo. Great stuff.
Yeah I'm following... in amazement! Very impressed with it
After a bit of thinking about I decided that its probably best to start with as polished a dial blank as I can, so I bunged the dial in my lathe and started to polish some more.
After a bit of polishing
And then after a bit more polishing I decided it was 'good enough':
The next stage I had to make a pointy tool. I keep the carbide drills that inevitably snap. the shanks are a useful source of carbide.
With a diamond file they can be shaped quite easily.
Now I have a pointy carbide drag engraving tool, a rotary table and a mill.
Mount the dial in the rotary table, and scratch away:
Many scratchings later:
my arm starts to ache.
eventually I get 90 lines engraved into the dial:
The engraving is not very clean, after all Ive basically just dragged a pointy thing across the surface - so bits of it look like a ploughed field.
I have hand gravers as well, Im not very proficient in their use, but I can manage to clean up the dial.
That looks better.
It still needs a clean in solvent / ultrasonic before I try and enamel it.
Thats todays job hopefully.
Stay tuned
Dave
What's with all the awesome new OC around here lately? Must be something in the water.
Dave, just out of curiosity, what would you say are the minimum tools and techniques someone would need to learn in order to make a simple watch case from scratch, assuming a relatively "easy" material like brass rather than steel or titanium. Are there any shortcuts in terms of case design that avoid the need for more specialised tools/rigs and thus would make it an approachable beginner project?
robt,
Depends on how bloody minded you are.
If you are determined a drill, jewellers saw and a selection of files will do it.
I wouldn't suggest that method though....
A small lathe is quite useful - it doesn't need to be super high spec for case work in my opinion, and it is likely to be second hand.
Something like a Unimat, Sherline, or Taig to name a few common ones are all adequate for case work.
I think the ability to silver solder would be useful - Trench cases with soldered on wire lugs are basically a ring with some hoops soldered on. stem tubes can be soldered in, and if you want to make a fancy shape then gluing on the lugs can make it simpler to manufacture.
Some people would say that you need to design the case completely before starting. Im not one of those types, I have a rough idea, but I'm definitely making this one up as I go along...
That might not work for you.
I bought some crystals (32mm) and a couple of movements. I'll make the rest to fit.
I do have some experience in what order to do things, and when to move from one machine to another, but I still have Doh! moments...
A milling machine helps, but to be honest for a case a saw and files are an adequate substitution if you have to.
You need to be able to measure your progress - I have digital readouts on my mill and large lathe, but I also make a lot of use of mikes, bore gages, DTI and dial gages. I bought an extra movement to live in the machine area for trial fits, so the final movement isn't full of swarf.
The most important skill is practice. I enamelled the dial this afternoon (pics to follow), and its ok, but I think I might make a new one - its not quite as I wanted it - although I think it would look ok. Given its my 2nd go at a dial enamel I think more practice is required
I wouldn't try and make a screw back case, with a screw crown and 200M water resistance as a first case. I think I'd make a snap back, with a crystal that seats into a groove (snap in) and make it somewhat chunky in the lugs, or possibly with wire loop lugs.
Brass would be a good material choice - it can be plated easily and isn't to expensive for the inevitable 2nd and 3rd tries :)
This case is in Ti because I've got a massive sheet of it that I figured I should use. So far its machining ok, but I'm nervous of a cockup - the tapping of the 6 holes for the case screws was the most nerve wracking machine op I've done for ages. I've not tried to drill the lug holes yet - that is my next real worry, although Ive got to get to the lug design first...
Dave
I cleaned the dial, then sprinkled on the enamelling powder. Im using EFColour Low temperature enamel. Its still a firing process, but at 150 degrees rather than 7-800. I suspect its actually quite similar to powder coat paint, but for my early forays I think it will do.
Baking. The oven door needs a clean...
Fresh from the baking, and still hot:
At this point it looks not to bad, although there is unevenness in the thickness or the enamel.
Once it cooled down it looks not to bad
Here you can see the wavy unevenness of the enamel.
Once in the bezel, with the crystal it does look nice, especially when it catches the sun:
I'll make the hands next whilst I contemplate if this dial is good enough.
I think the hands will be straight stick, possibly blued steel with a red strip and lumed tip.
Dave
:)Originally Posted by Dave S
Thanks for taking the time with that reply, it was exactly the sort of answer I was looking for. Watchmaking by George Daniels is currently quite high up my reading list. I'll keep all this in mind as I'm reading that and try to build a mental image of exactly how to approach a project, even though it may be some time before I'm actually in a position to put any of it into practice.
Best of luck with the remaining work. I've heard Ti can be particularly temperamental, so fingers crossed it keeps going to plan.
BTW, did you consider making the dial out of Ti and heat bluing it rather than using that enamel? Not sure how that would look on a dial, but it's something I've been wondering about for a while. From what I've seen it's very hard to get an even finish, but since a dial is circular, you could mount it on a lathe or drill before applying the blowtorch (insert health and safety warning here). That could result in a perfectly even one-colour finish, a nice clean sunburst, or concentric rings of varying colours, depending on how you apply the heat.
If you had done the dial in Ti, you can do electrochemical anodising which is much more controllable than heat ano...
I've done a fair bit...
Again, great work. Thanks for that instalment :)
Decorative PVD blue would look quite good imo.
The other book that is a good starting text is ' the modern watchmakers lathe and how to use it ' by Archie Perkins.
As a practical book I might even recommend it before Daniels.
To make a Ti dial I would have to thin down the stock, as the thinnest I have is 3mm thick. Don't fancy that
I am familiar with colour anodising of Ti, but not this time.
I've got a plan for the hands, so next week I'll start them. They will be heat blued.
Dave
Thanks, I've ordered a copy of that. It's not cheap. Best I could find was Ł85 delivered, from a seller on AbeBooks.
Designed the hands last night. Took more sums than I expected, as I want to mark them out using the mill and rotary table so I can in theory make more that match... Converting lengths into angles is simple trig, then converting angles into turns and holes, remembering that not all holes are available took a good dose of thinking about...
Just done the minute hand. Marking out was easy following the instructions I wrote last night. Hurrah.
Pics later
Dave
Hands.
Start out as a piece of steel shim stock - the same stuff as the dial is made from.
This is quite thin, so I stick it to a sacrificial piece of aluminium to make holding it easier for the initial marking out.
I have a cunning plan for the marking out. Previously Ive made curvy hands, which are mostly down to skill with a file and a bit of luck.
For this watch I want to make something a bit sharper.
So I actually designed the hands, worked out the angles and such.
To mark it out I figured I'd use my milling machine - it can allow me to scribe very precise lines.
Bung the alloy and hand block into the 4 jaw
and scribe away:
Once I'd done the minute hand I popped the shim off, and got the jewellers saw out.
Rinse and repeat for the Hour hand
Hand blanks fresh from sawing out
At this point I gave then a very quick clean up and suddenly it was nine o'clock ;)
The hands are very much blanks still, so time to add some shape.
Superglue to an old Stanley Knife blade for support and to allow good access.
After a few minutes of careful filing the intended shape appears:
Its quite hard to photograph with my phone, and its not as polished as it will need to be yet.
I'll be doing the same with the Hour hand tonight, and then some very fine polishing.
I think I need to make a polishing jig to get a black finish - mostly to maintain the flatness of the facets.
Once I have Minute and Hour hands Ill start on the seconds hand.
Dave
Excellent work, thanks very much for taking the time to document and share the process. I have enjoyed the progress to date and look forward to the finished article. Cheers.
I'd have stabbed myself with the hand and cut myself with the blade in that update alone.
Following with interest, looking good.
I don't visit this corner of the forum particularly often, (owing to a complete lack of ability). However, I shall be keeping a close eye on this thread. Very impressive stuff :)
Blood is not good for tools, or making a nice finish.
Just uploading pics from tonight to Photobucket....
Stay tuned
Dave
Not many pics tonight, but I polished the hands.
Held the knife blade in a clamp to make it easier to apply the polishing process.
Started with a very fine grit diamond file, followed by 1500 W7D, then medium and fine Diamantine abrasive with various metal and wooden polishers.
Its not quite a proper black, but its chuffing hard to photograph with my phone:
And it looks fine on the hands. Next I need to make a seconds hand then blue them and add the lume into the engraved centre line.
Dave
I'm full of admiration for anyone with those skills and thanks for taking the time to update your progress.
You asked earlier if anyone was watching this thread !? I'm sure there are many, many more who, like me, are just gawping slack-jawed in awe of what you have achieved :-D
I'm loving every minute of it, please keep up your superb work.
Thanks, Gren
Tonight I made a 0.25mm drill so I could make the second hand pipe.
It was really fragile....
Oh well. Try again tomorrow
Dave
After a dose of thinking about it occurred to me that I have a load of snapped carbide pcb drills a little larger diameter than I need.
So tonight I filed one down to the size I need.
Slow going, but I now have another tiny drill to try.
I can't get to the pc to upload pics at the moment -SWMBO has decided to rearrange all the furniture. There are some snaps on twitter, I'll try and do a proper write up tomorrow, and I'll also try and drill a hole...
Dave
Wow, just wow... Making that Tiny hands is something I can't imagine for You doing that.
The seconds hand should have a pipe, with a very small hole in it.
I don't currently have any drills the correct size, so after consulting Watchmaking (Daniels) I decided to have ago at making a drill.
First a piece of steel.
Turn down to the correct size
I have an inspection microscope, which is not ideal as its very high magnification and a very small depth of field.
The drill here is about 0.22mm across. I cut a little more back clearance into it before filing 2 flats:
This gives the cutting edges for the drill. Its a bit like a very small spade bit for woodworking if you are having trouble visualising it.
I filed some clearance, and then hardened and tempered it.
Then I showed it to a piece of metal and it bent over and snapped... Some of it was, I think, down to my clumsyness. :(
During the rest of friday eve and saturday morning I gave it some thought.
I have a few broken carbide PCB drills. None are small enough for this hole, but at least the raw material is already hard, so any heat treatment is a none issue.
Carbide is more brittle than steel, but I don't think that is very significant at this sort of size...
This is a no71 (0.026") drill.
I need about 0.009"
I have a good selection of diamond stones and files, so whilst spinning the blank in the lathe I have at it:
Here the flutes are nearly gone, and here the blank is to size:
I do have a surface grinder, but for various reasons its not currently usable, so I mounted a diamond coated wheel in the mill to grind the flutes.
Using the indexing fixture I can get the 2 flutes parallel and even.
for illustration of size (I only had a 2P in my pocket.):
A lovely looking drill, but again I failed. Apologies for the poor picture, bit its actually quite hard to photograph.
This hole did at least get to 0.2mm deep before the inevitable happened.
Watchmaking is mostly about patience and perseverance, so Ill be trying again.
I might finish the case more before I revisit the seconds hand...
Stay tuned
Dave
Have you thought about a pin and a hammer. I know I would.
Honestly, I'm struggling to comprehend this. Spark erosion was in fashion. For small holes when I was learning about manufacturing.
Sent from North Korea using my Carrier Pigeon XR3i.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
The problem you are having with your drill seems to have been addressed in this thread http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?366704-A-typical-day-at-my-watchmaker-s-workbench by Horlogerie France in post #1. For some reason the pictures aren't showing on my iPad. Hope this is helpful.
Last edited by magirus; 25th April 2016 at 09:23.
F.T.F.A.
Cheers for that, I'll have a read
Dave
Subscribed!
Hat's off to you Sir & thanks for sharing this.
Some success tonight. I made another drill from pivot steel.
Ive been thinking about the geometry and how to make it, and this (my 3rd) is the best yet.
I also had a thought about other causes of snapping. My drilling setup needs some more thinking about.
So I tried it out on some nice soft brass.
Yeah. 0.22mm hole just under 1mm deep.
That would do for a pipe, except it's off center of the bar - which is probably a cause of snapped drills...
Dave
This installment is about a brand new second hand
Starts out as a blank piece of shimstock
Glued to a scrap of alloy to drill the 0.6mm hole for the pipe (Which I still have to make), and to mark out a rough shape.
Which I then cut out using a jewellers saw.
Did some rough filing:
And then a bit of fine filing:
This is how I do it:
I my benchpeg I have a narrow piece of hardwood (I think it's sapele, but who knows - It came from an old dinghy)
On the end are a number of cuts - some deep, some shallow, some shaped.
The Hand is held in a pin vice
and supported in a slot against the pressure of filing. The different slots allow different depths and angles.
Care is still needed, but the hand is surprisingly robust with support, and the wood will just file away if necessary.
Not certain Im finished with the tail, but the pointy bit is fine.
I'm also not sure if Ill blue or paint it a colour.
I intend to put a lume 'stripe' in the middle of the tail, and down the centre of the hour and minute hands.
Any Opinions?
All the hands need final finishing, but I do like the dial / hands combo so far.
So here are some shots of the light catching it.
Stay tuned, plenty more to do yet...
Dave
Those hands are starting to look pretty stunning. Ordinarily I'm a fan of blued and/or polished hands - definitely not paint after going to this level of effort. Only worry is contrast against the dial. I suppose you could heat-blue until nearly black. Ideally either the second hand or the other two should be blued and the other(s) highly polished. How difficult is it to mirror-polish hands? Can you use a buffer on a dremel for instance? Must have to be really careful with them.
I really like your wooden rig and will totally be stealing that idea later.
I too am following with interest so please keep up the posts!
Like many others I have been "silently" marvelling at the skill and patience involved. I'm sure that having to stop and photograph it all for our entertainment is somewhat distracting too!
Best of luck with your endeavours and I look forward to watching this progress.
I decided to try and make a brass pipe.
Daniels recommends steel, but I have seen brass pipes, so as Ive drilled the hole...
If you remember the hole was off centre. I have a 4 jaw chuck for my lathe, so using a microscope I centred on the hole.
Then started to turn down the outside
Until it was 0.6mm in diameter...
The hand fits :)
Glad people are enjoying it. Its not hard to take a snap, the hardest part is to remember to do so at points that show how its done.
There will be a few weeks delay on any more work however, I've got a sick Porsche engine that I need to strip and rebuild.
To do that I need to clear the watchmaking tools out of the way so I have enough space.
Stay tuned, I might get on with some casework, but otherwise Ill update this when I get back to it.
Dave
I think Ill polish and blue them, the lume stripe should give enough visibility, as it will be nearly white.
I stole the wooden peg idea from Roger Smith - its on one of his youtube vids, so your in good company ;)
Dave
Good to see you got the drill bit sorted and made the pipe. Re the Roger Smith videos, I've watched them all and they are required viewing for anyone with an interest in watches IMHO. I look forward to your next update when the pesky car is fixed!
I want to see a Porsche engine rebuild topic from you!
Seconded!I want to see a Porsche engine rebuild topic from you!
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