Hi chaps,
Having sold a few cheapies, I’ve been left with a bit of a gap in my collection – a black dialled, go anywhere, including the baths, military style chronograph. The sort of thing with a matt steel case that looks good on a nato strap and can be worn for ‘dress down days’ at work and in casual situations. Budget is fairly low - £1500 ish. Size has to no more than 40mm (every watch I’ve owned above this I’ve sold).
The watch needs to be tough, I have plenty of watches that I don’t wear for fear of scratching the case or breaking the crystal. To get around, I make use of a walking frame or wheelchair depending upon whether I’m having a good day or a bad day; sometimes the distance simply dictates that I need to use the wheelchair – there’s lots of potential for scrapes and scratches. I’ve been wearing on rotation, two Grand Seikos GMTs which are surprisingly tough watches, but there are days when I should be wearing something ‘more expendable’ because I’m not on top form and it’s a bit silly. I also swim once a week and I’m looking for a watch that will be fine in the pool, though I won’t be going diving.
I’ve narrowed it down to these three ‘retro classics’, they’ve all been around the block a few times and I’m sure plenty of people on here have owned one or more of them:
1) Fortis Flieger Aviatis / Professional 40 mm – the model that's only recently been replaced. These can be had for slightly under budget and are the third iteration of a long-standing model with brushed finished case and luminova on the hands and dial which looks to be a better finish than the earlier rougher tritium models.
• Pros: distinctive pilot’s watch; good size; iconic design for the brand.
• Cons: getting a bit long in the tooth; even with discount not the best value for money; Fortis’ fit and finish can be entry level.
2) Sinn Flieger 356 acrylic 38mm – a classic that’s been around for ages. I remember when these cost a mere £500. I’m not picky that the modern ones have an SW500 movement.
Pros: gorgeous good looks; nice proportions; stylish case and drilled lugs.
Cons: acrylic crystal; bead-blasted case difficult to refinish.
3) Damasko DC56 40 mm – newer than the other two and technologically superior, it’s also very tough and in my opinion, good value for money.
• Pros: technology and durability beats the other two hands down, very clean appearance; over engineered; fit and finish are very good; could forget I was wearing it; I'd feel more confident wearing it in the water than the other two.
• Cons: case appears tall on the wrist as does the gap between the lugs; my other half thinks it looks like a toy watch; some owners seem to get bored of it.
Yesterday I visited Hammonds Jewellers in the Victoria Quarter Leeds, one of the outlets for Jura Watches. The only Sinn stock that they had, was the U series of diver’s watchers though they did have some Damaskos in the safe. I was impressed with DC56 and whilst being very low key, it seems to fit the bill. I tried the larger 42mm chronograph with bezel but it was too larger whereas the 40mm fitted like a glove. I tried the bracelet model of the DC56 but I wasn’t that keen on it and felt the strap was the way to go. Jake at Hammonds can order-in a Sinn 356 for me to have a look at and compare.
So, are there any other watches I should be considering / am I missing any obvious choices?
Should I stretch the budget and get the Sapphire 356 or the DC56 with the silicone hairspring / upgraded movement where the rotor winds in both directions etc?
I’m only wanting to finance the new watch out of selling other of my watches, though I don’t want to sell myself short if there’s a miles better option for a little bit more.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated; you might have guessed that I'm leaning towards the Damasko.
Sir, you have done your homework so well that there's nothing left more.
All three watches are top notch in their respective rights but if i were to choose; Fortis then Damasko and Sinn (in that order) but either of the three will be fine...really a matter of taste. I can't actually think of any brand that is better than your three. Very nice problem to have btw.
Good luck.
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Thanks for your reply. I used to have a Fortis but couldn't I afford the chronograph, hence my soft spot for the brand. I also wonder whether now's the time to grab a 40mm one before the new ones come through which are 42-3mm. Prices vary wildly from £1200-1800 when buying from the continent.Originally Posted by Solicitor
My other half likes the Fortis and she has a good eye for this sort of thing.
Great choices. If you like a more vintage style, I'd add Tutima and Hanhart to your search.
I must say I cant think of another 7750 Flieger.
Size would be my predominant thoughts here, I have a pretty much hard limit of 40mm. So I would go Sinn but I think for some inexplicable reason I would feel short changed with the SW over the Valjoux. I know its not n issue for you but; I think the higher Sinn models (i.e. - the ones with sapphire and power reserve complication) still employ 7750.
Also, I tried on the Fortis a while back and they are very thick.
I have the DC56 and acrylic 356 and although I find the Damasko the more interesting of the two, on the wrist I'm always aware of it and as such it can be a tad hardwork.
The Sinn is easier to live with, more versatile, depending upon your exposure to and attitude towards scratches.
Carl's 6b
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Is that because of the height thing again? i.e. the Sinn does a better job of disguising the height with the domed crystal and position of the lug holes to lift the strap - I need to see one as I'm guessing from the pics.
I've heard that damasko must be serviced by them? As opposed to most watches that have common parts and so can be serviced/repaired most anywhere.
That would make me give damasko a miss even though I like their look.
Personally I like the look of the Stowa Flieger Chrono but then it is 41mm so just over your size limit.
Think of the Damasko as a military grade instrument strapped to your wrist and if you are prepared to buy into that aesthetic. Ask yourself if the engineering backstory, technical details and uncompromising, austere design all appeal to you sufficiently to wear everyday?
My Damaskos feel different to anything else, that is their appeal, but on my civilian wrist they sometimes border on incongruous. I have never felt that wearing the 356.
Of those three I would prefer the Sinn and wouldn't consider the Fortis at all. I don't like the style of lugs that the Fortis has and the boxy shape of the case, with vertical sides and flat crystal. I would agree with Lampoc and add Tutima and Hanhart to your list. Good luck with your search.
For me it'd be the Sinn. I'm going on looks alone unfortunately, as I haven't owned any of them, but I have been hankering for one of those for years.
There's also the glycine combat chronograph. I think the newer ones are all 43mm, but this version is 40mm.
https://www.jurawatches.co.uk/collec...2-watch-gl-428
Come to think of it, I'd forgotten about the Page & Cooper option for Damasko servicing:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?t=370657
I guess the only options are to send it to P&C and hope that they improve in the future, or faff about sending it direct to Damasko in Germany.
One of the watches it's replacing is a second generation Seiko military. Pics I've seen of the DC56 on a grey nato strap strike a chord with me, more so than the 356; but on leather the Sinn's the better looking watch :S
I think what'll do is ask Jura to order-in the 356 and compare the two.
How about the one back in the 90s that re-ignited the whole pilot chrono genre - a nice one should be doable on leather for close to your budget.
I'm biased of course as mine only arrived on Friday (another re-purchase of Watches From My Past). But most of the others, however nice (and I've owned the 356 a couple of times) are just wanabees of this anyway:
Nice IWC. 356 for me,
...
.
I have a sapphire 356 and love it, but am paranoid about breaking the crystal as it's domed so very exposed and quite pricey to replace. Given your use case I'd probably avoid raised sapphire, don't really wear mine much now I've got a toddler!
I think you also need to consider Ollech & Wajs , this type of military Chrono is pretty much bread and butter to them, or how about an Omega Speedy reduced? 39mm and can be had for 1k used.
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
You are missing the Archimede pilot chrono and similar Steinhart Nav B chrono which are rather cheaper than those you show but are very similar in looks at least otherwise. Of the 3 you show I would go Fortis for looks or Damasko for all-round toughness and utility but in reality I would have none of the above. 7750 chronos are just too fat and deep for my tastes. I have had several 7750s inc an Archimede chrono and a 1990s Hamilton and I always flog them as they are just big fugly things at 15mm thick at least. Door frame finders to a one!
Last edited by Padders; 2nd October 2016 at 23:47.
Thanks for all the comments. I've asked Hammonds AKA Jura to get a basic DC56 and also a Sinn 356 in for me to try.
I'm reluctant to go with the Fortis because I don't want to buy it blind and I quite liked the Damaskos I handled at the weekend.
It'll take 2-3 weeks to get them in. I might decide to upsec with a sapphire 356 or the Si Damasko but I'm thinking of keeping it simple (and cheap) as if I were to spend 2k+ on a watch I'll be less inclined to wear it for the purposes I'm intending to.
A Google search for DC56 brings up this:
Whereas 356 gets you this
A bit irrelevant and off topic, but I can't help but think one of the options is all function and the other has more style.
Don't worry I'm not about to get a new hand held vacuum cleaner.
Yep exactly, Sinn is all fur coat and no kickers whereas Damasko actually gets the job done.
Interesting response ... Damasko does nothing at all for me whereas the 356 just looks classic ... it has a small feel to it though (the reason I've bought and sold it twice) ... my ideal Sinn flieger would be a 358 with acrylic, unfortunately I think they only do the sapphire now (I think they did in the past though).Yep exactly, Sinn is all fur coat and no kickers whereas Damasko actually gets the job done.
Ironically it's the classic looks of the Sinn that put me off. I really don't like the hands.
Of the three options, my choice would be the Damasko. I do like Fortis (and have a B42 Chrono) but I think the B42/F43 case suits the chrono more than the smaller case size model.
Jura had a Damasko delivery yesterday. I don't know whether the watch I ordered was in it, as it hadn't been distributed between the branches. It was unclear when the Sinn would arrive.
I called into Hammonds in the Victoria Quarter in Leeds and saw Jake. They were restocking the shop after the show at Chatsworth House. I'd seen the DC56 SI model last time I was in and wanted to have another look at it. Jake was very helpful and despite the restocking, was able to find the watch. He said they had had quite a lot of interest in Damasko at the show and a few purchases from people new to the brand.
To cut a long story short I cracked, and I went for the DC56 SI model. It was more than my original budget, but I've had some good fortune in moving a few pieces on and I'm moving to fewer, but better spec'd watches. There's 3 different DC56 SI dials out there and it's hard to tell which is current production, though Jake told me that they hadn't had mine in stock very long. Mine has the longer dashes at 5 minute intervals on the minute register and has the lower Damasko logo.
He's a quick wrist shot:
I'll post more thoughts when I've had it a few weeks but initial impressions are that it's great. I can recommend dealing with Jake, I felt a bit sorry for him with the Sinn situation as they are now quite long lead times to get watches in.
Last edited by AKM; 9th November 2016 at 18:19.
Congratulations I've had a DC56 a couple of months and love it,I'm sure you will with the Si,look forward to the update.enjoy the damasko.
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Great watches all of them what ever you decide.
Me.........36mm
Pitch
Some further options
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Obviously I've stretched the brief a bit with dial colour etc.
Of of 3 you've selected in the OP, I'd have the Damasko
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
I had mine last week
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Last edited by dizy; 9th November 2016 at 22:59.
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