So I've been offered a great career opportunity to move overseas, to Singapore specifically. I have a 4 year old with a recent ASD diagnosis and the area where I currently live (Kingston Upon Thames) is blessed with great schools that have facilities for kids with ASD. I want him to go to a mainstream school as his ASD isn’t severe and he’s very intelligent – he suffers however from social communication difficulties and a lot of rocking.
This is a great opportunity for me both career wise and financially, however my son absolutely comes first and what is most important above career and money is that he is given the best opportunities to become the best he could be. If that means staying in the UK then so be it. I understand in parts of Asia ASD has a social stigma attached or they just shovel them into a special needs school as opposed to trying to integrate them into a mainstream environment.
Does anyone here have examples of moving overseas with children who have special needs? If anyone has any commentary specifically on Singapore that would be hugely useful as well
Not the same, but years ago I turned down a three years overseas posting when I was in the Civil Service because we wouldn't have been able to take the dog. With all the allowances attached it would have been close to a 100% pay rise, but sometimes other things are more important.
Agreed - initial research is showing Singapore to be miles behind UK/US/Aus when it comes to special needs education so it's not looking goodOriginally Posted by Wallasey Runner
Does the employer not provide any educational assistance generally -British school (aka private)?
Honestly don't think Singapore has any of what your child will needs, and what it does have will pale in comparison to what is available in the UK - publicly and privately .
I would think you'd probably have to hire someone full-time.
If as you say kids come first, then its a no-brainer I think
I have no idea about Singapore, but family members have just returned to the UK from SA with their 5 year old autistic son, specifically because of the schooling available in the UK
I'd research very carefully before committing to a move
It's a long time since I've lived in Singapore but my impression is that the State School system is quite competitive and might not give him the support he needs. The application process is also quite complex.
Our children have attended international schools overseas for most of their education. In Budapest they went to a Nord Anglia Education School (BISB) and I note that Dover Court is run by the same organisation. Although at times I felt it was run very much as a business there was no question regarding inclusivity and providing for special needs. Our oldest daughter's best friend there was a little girl with cerebral palsy who received all the additional support necessary whilst being treated the same as the other pupils as far as possible.
Our youngest daughter has recently had very specific needs whilst attending an international school in Bogotá following the best part of a year off whilst being treated for cancer. The school has supported her recovery in every way possible, providing suitable stimulating work for her to do on the days spent at home, teachers who take the time to bring her back up to speed when she misses something, and an occupational therapist and psychologist to assist with her recovery. I'm sure that this has enabled her to reintegrate quicker than in a situation where class sizes are larger and teachers have more demands on their time.
There have been a number of other very positive aspects to international education. The schools our girls have attended cover primary through to the end of secondary (IB) with a total number of pupils of around 600, so they feel quite intimate and personal. A great mix of nationalities to interact with (all of the schools have had 'international days' to show off cultural mix), small class sizes meaning that each child gets a fair bit of attention, no questions asked if you need to remove your child for a day or two, field trips to incredible places.
That said, there are international schools and international schools. One of the options here is very large and mainly attended by children of the great and the wealthy of Colombian society. Kids with their own drivers and bodyguards. We didn't feel it a suitable option for our girls. As always, it pays to do your research.
Very best wishes with making your decision, and if you would like further information on our experience with Nord Anglia and other international schools please get in touch.
Matthew
I would stay on in the UK. I have a child with special needs and considered moving elsewhere in Asia. My sense was that medically, facilities could be world class - but only if you needed something 'standard' such as heart surgery, hip replacement etc. There was limited experience in diagnosing conditions like these - and the multi-disciplinary approach needed to manage them. I met a few doctors locally and the deepest specialist in my child's condition had seen just 2-3 cases in her life - they simply weren't being diagnosed. Our NHS doctor on the other hand has a current 'portfolio' of 25+ children with the same condition that she looks after.
Comments others have made re the education system are also spot on. Things are improving - but not very fast. My sister lives in Singapore and both her kids have been educated there. The focus tends to be on producing the high achievers who can go to the top universities in the US/ UK/ Australia/ Canada. The local schools are more 'pressure cooker' than the international ones but the flavor is quite similar.
I am originally from Singapore and have spent much time there (just there last week!), despite emigrating from there over 40 years ago. Singaporean culture is uber competitive (as you probably know) and it is not empathetic (sadly) to kids who are not top of their class academically. It is a very unforgiving society. Schools like ACS are more 'traditional' in the British sense of it, but it is still so unbelievably competitive given it is populated by local kids. The international schools like SAS are not forgiving either because of the Yanks who send their kids there who feel privileged to run riot along Boat Quay on a Friday night and you'd swear many of them are paid by the 15mins... I don't think that school culture is forgiving either.
Singapore can be good financially/career wise, but it tends to be a slightly one-way street. I have many friends/ex-colleagues who emigrated there as expats and have never left. They have benefitted financially, but they have also lost out on many things which I think become more important in later life. By the time you realise this, it's too late and becomes quite difficult to relocate back to Europe/US especially if your kids have grown up the 'Singapore way'. Your expectations of efficiency/availability/instant-everything become ingrained, and it's just not the way Western culture is engineered (yet). Imho.
Evening good sir and I'm glad you are a good parent putting the needs of your child first.
I live here in Singapore and am an expat.
I do love it here but there are also significant deficiencies and compromises. There is after all no perfect country but regardless, it is a blessed country in regards to safety, efficiency, public transport, variety and financially with tons of sunshine.
However, if you are coming here with a special needs child, you are going to face significant financial and resource intensive issues in order to ensure that he has the right environment to grow up in.
I do not know what are your long term plans, but as an expat your salary must be worthwhile enough (read high ) to justify the move over here.
You will have to factor in getting a maid which will set you 850-950sgd per month excluding food and transport costs, unless your other half is going to stay at home or you have some (very) flexible arrangements.
Your child will need a special needs school which will cost you a significant amount of money. They are good but you will have to pay for it. Its close to impossible to get in to a government school as an expat and he would simply not be able to cope as well even if he did. Let's just say the Year 4 Singaporean probably knows more complex maths and physics than your year 9 British student. I don't mean that as an insult in anyway (it can be taken both ways), but that's the nature of how gruelling the system can be ( both advantageous and disadvantageous ).
Your family will need health insurance. That itself is not particularly costly (variability from 2k - 15k SGD/year) for a family, depending on how much coverage you want. However it is likely that chronic existing conditions will be excluded. It is a fact that some British expats here will fly home to get NHS treatment for their chronic conditions (eg. Crohn's ) as you will have to otherwise fund it independently. If you are not a PR or Singaporean, healthcare here can burn you if something unexpected develops and you are not insured. It can also burn the local population here. However the standard of healthcare here is regardless very very high, certainly superior to the NHS in terms of accessibility and at least equal or better in terms of doctor expertise and technology.
The expat community here is large and will provide a good social network to fall back on. This includes families with children facing the same issues.
Singapore is a place where if you earn enough, it's a playground, but if you don't it can get tough. But the same is true for any other country I guess.
It's unlikely you can afford a decent property here given that there is a 15% tax for expats, so if it's short term, you will just be renting. It's also highly unlikely you will get a car given that the cheapest new car on the market mitsubishi attrage is about 45k GBP. So public transport and taxis (which are cheap) will be your main mode of transport.
Hope that helps.
Feel free to PM me if you have queries or do decide to come over.
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Last edited by autumnwind; 30th November 2017 at 09:33.
Thanks for the comments guys. I wouldn't be keen to put him in a special needs school - current UK plan is mainstream school with SEN support - he's a bright lad but with social and communication issues. Probably end up working in an algorithm development role at Google in 20 years, that kind of thing!
Salary would be high. Basically I could buy one and a half of those cars you are talking about every month after tax if I went to Singapore lol. So it would be a financial boost to the family (wife is a housewife so no maid required).
But money is just a bit of paper, what’s best for my son takes priority (add to this he has Epilepsy and a Peanut allergy). And the UK support system where we live for ASD seems pretty good – ironically the private schools in the UK aren’t particularly good for autism-related conditions – it’s government funded initiatives delivered in state schools that are the best and I am fortunate that the 3 state primary schools we are looking at in Kingston are all OFSTED outstanding.
So I would love to move to Singapore for a finance boost and the lifestyle. Plus the wife is from the Far East. But all of that is overridden by the fact my 4 year old’s development is far more important than lifestyle and we need to give him every opportunity to be the best he can be. So we will stay in the UK unless I can find something in Singapore that enables him to attend mainstream education with specialised ASD support and in an environment where society recognises that individuals with ASD have their challenges but can also be vastly more proficient than non ASD people in other tasks.
£60K every month after tax, hell thats worth moving for.
Well if you are earning 120k SGD a month (70k GBP) , there really is no need to reconsider lol! The worlds your oyster and you could customise whatever program you wanted for him. Money can buy just about anything here to be honest. In this case, or rather the financial case, it is too compelling to say no.
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Well it's a LOT more than I'm on in the UK. Like multiples of current salary which is already good by UK standards. But that means nothing if he doesn't get accepted into society there.
There are very few positions with this kind of pay. It would primarily be banking (high managerial to CEO level), own business (which won't apply to you since you are not local here) or medicine ( private doctors, which again won't apply to you I presume). Maybe law and tech at high managerial level as well.
All these positions and companies will have a massive HR department which will make it a breeze to bring you and your family over. At this salary level, you are 100% going to get a company car and schooling fees paid for. So all you do is tell them the requirements and they will likely have networks to link you up with.
Whether he gets accepted or not is irrelevant, in my opinion. This is life and there will always be good and bad encounters wherever you are. As long as the family unit is strong and you have a few close friends, that alone is sufficient to make things smooth with healthy relationships. As a whole I would not say there is any discrimination against special needs people. But teenagers will always be teenagers in whatever country you are.
As I said the expat community is large. One of my family friends who was in a similar level and position like you had both kids with quite severe autism, and they managed well. The truth is, money can often buy and provide *almost* everything, making difficult situations much easier particularly in regards to the schooling and educational requirements.
Your son is young. Even if you did this job for couple of years , say 5, you will likely have a couple of million quid on return and that alone will make things much easier and smoother in the future.
So again, a no brainer.
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Last edited by autumnwind; 30th November 2017 at 16:32.
It's a Head of Sales role if that helps. And yes with a large company who is an undisputed leader in their field.
Last edited by ryanb741; 30th November 2017 at 16:37.
Enough first hand stories about Singapore and its educational system. Perhaps not in favour of an ASD diagnosed child. On the other hand, he's 4 y/o and he's only at the beginning of his 'school career'. Your local schools have a fine reputation regarding ASD, but are the equally equipped when it comes to intelligent children? Often ASD and high intelligence are related, but most school are successful on only one of ASD's characteristics: the social aspect OR the intelligence aspect.
And that's where the Singapore comes into the equitation: The country's educational level is very high. Try to get the latest PISA score; 2016's being the latest. You can have it both ways: enough annual income to provide proper (individual) education combined with the level of Singapore's education. Perhaps there are more expats out there who are in the same position; a small private (and privately financed) school can be the answer.
If you ever want to take the opportunity, this is the moment, age-wise. When he gets older, it will become harder for him to adapt into a new role, new class and environment. That will be a problem until he's old enough to take care of himself.
Menno
Last edited by thieuster; 30th November 2017 at 17:55.
I can't offer much insight into Singapore (there are much more qualified folk above) but I can add that a friend of mine relocated to Singapore 6 years ago - much like you for a Head of Sales role. His eldest (now 14) was diagnosed in the UK as being on the ASD Spectrum. It is mild but is centred around social communication difficulties - introversion, interaction avoidance and not understanding nuances/signals. He's at the Singapore branch of Dulwich College and is thriving. Might be worth a call to Dulwich to explore options?
Of tangent, but if you are a watch person, you are going to have an awesome time here as well. A country of 5.6 million people almost bought as much Swiss watches as the entire UK... think that says enough about the vast amount of disposable income here .
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Only perhaps partly relevant, but we have a son with Down’s Syndrome who is also on the autistic spectrum. He needs a special school as he has global developmental delay and we found decent schools both in the Kingston area and Norfolk where we now live. I strongly get the impression that culturally in the U.K we are further down the path of inclusion for those children with extra learning needs, (I should say we tried mainstream education for a few years at the beginning and it just wasn’t appropriate or helpful for him). Good luck with your decision - the only advice I can offer is think about the whole family - you might decide to stay in the U.K. for your son but you don’t want to resent it in the future - however unlikely or unthinkable that might seem now (and children can be surprisingly resilient) good luck whatever the outcome, sounds like he’s got a good Dad to fight his corner whatever
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I can add nothing to the valuable posts above, but it does sound like a cracking role & opportunity.
If it’s an FMCG Business (unlikely with that salary m), and you need a Head of Category Management, give me a shout!
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I have no experience whatsoever but I doubt that there's a better answer than this?
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