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Thread: Two "Frog's Foot" dial Explorers from the same era, but...

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  1. #1
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    Two "Frog's Foot" dial Explorers from the same era, but...

    I've just been offered a Rolex Explorer 1 (please someone, take the bait....), model 1016.

    It's very useful on these occasions if one has a good comparison watch. So, I found in the safes another with the same "frog's foot" dial and a very close case number :



    As the cases of these watches were made within weeks of one another, this allows for some detailed comparison of contemporary case engravings etc. I also took the chance to compare the amount of wear / polishing to the lugs.



    I've never been one to get overly excited about "unpolished" or "full lug" claims, but this comparison shows just how much metal can be lost with fifty years of wear and perhaps some over-polishing. I do understand how such loss of metal can arise, as it is often tempting to polish out a deep cut or graze in a lug or case-side. "Tooth-pick" lugs generally reduce desirability and value, so it's worth checking even when all the excitement may be in the dial or provenance.

    Of course, one cannot hold physical examples of every model from every era, but to assist with correctly identifying the many, many different styles of case numbering I keep a database of model and case numbers with thousands of images like these :



    It proves increasingly useful now that the illicit re-numbering of cases is such a common phenomenon, but also helps satisfy that a watch is correct when numbers from the same model / era appear identical in style and application.

    H
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 5th January 2023 at 19:03.

  2. #2
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    Very interesting. I love Explorers but they are out of my price range. So, as much as I would like to take the bait, I cant ha ha.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Slevin Kelevra View Post
    Very interesting. I love Explorers but they are out of my price range. So, as much as I would like to take the bait, I cant ha ha.
    You don’t need money to take the bait. You called the watch an Explorer, silly old HM called it an Explorer 1…


  4. #4
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    Fascinating attention to detail. Loving those forensic photos.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using TZ-UK mobile app

  5. #5
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    Sorry for my ignorance, but why 'Frog's Foot'?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by apm101 View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance, but why 'Frog's Foot'?
    Rolex applied (and continue to apply) many different styles of coronet through the years.

    This generation of Explorer 1016 had a rather splayed version that is reminiscent - one might say - of a frog's foot, after which it has been named :



    Much better images may be found in my unwritten article here : https://www.miltonaires.com/4646/exp...ng-in-progress

    The same coronet was also found on the "Disco Dial" Explorer II 1655, as shown here : https://www.miltonaires.com/4543/the...s-foot-variant

    In the image above, note the "T" in PERPETUAL, one side of its horizontal top-stroke being much shorter than the other, reminiscent of Andy Dufresne's rock hammer after twenty years in Shawshank.

    H
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 5th January 2023 at 17:45.

  7. #7
    Your knowledge always impresses me, for what its worth I think I would prefer a "dink" or two to a over polished lugs/case.

    ps: Excuse my ignorance but have you ever produced a Rolex knowledge book for the public ?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Your knowledge always impresses me, for what its worth I think I would prefer a "dink" or two to a over polished lugs/case.

    ps: Excuse my ignorance but have you ever produced a Rolex knowledge book for the public ?
    That was very kind of you.

    Indeed, many vintage collectors would prefer an unrestored watch over one with perfect lines. I had one of my first mil subs given the full Bexley treatment soon after the millennium. It looks crisp and I still love it, but I'm sorry that some of its original scars and character are now lost forever :



    While I have plenty of material that might be drawn upon for a book (not least a document of several hundred thousand words detailing the case numbers of almost every Rolex that ever crossed my path), what I lack is the time in which to produce it. I have a family, life and businesses beyond watches, which may save the world from the boring, flawed and arrogant opus I might have created in a parallel life !

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Rolex applied (and continue to apply) many different styles of coronet through the years.

    This generation of Explorer 1016 had a rather splayed version that is reminiscent - one might say - of a frog's foot, after which it has been named :



    Much better images may be found in my unwritten article here : https://www.miltonaires.com/4646/exp...ng-in-progress

    The same coronet was also found on the "Disco Dial" Explorer II 1655, as shown here : https://www.miltonaires.com/4543/the...s-foot-variant

    In the image above, note the "T" in PERPETUAL, one side of its horizontal top-stroke being much shorter than the other, reminiscent of Andy Dufresne's rock hammer after twenty years in Shawshank.

    H
    Is that dial original? The quality looks poor, is that aging?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Is that dial original? The quality looks poor, is that aging?
    The dial is correct.

    The printing on these is rather crude if examined closely and in this instance it is further blurred / disturbed by a very worn glass through which I took the snap quickly to answer the earlier question.

    Have a look at the much better images in the article to which I liinked.
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 5th January 2023 at 19:06.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Rolex applied (and continue to apply) many different styles of coronet through the years.

    This generation of Explorer 1016 had a rather splayed version that is reminiscent - one might say - of a frog's foot, after which it has been named :



    Much better images may be found in my unwritten article here : https://www.miltonaires.com/4646/exp...ng-in-progress

    The same coronet was also found on the "Disco Dial" Explorer II 1655, as shown here : https://www.miltonaires.com/4543/the...s-foot-variant

    In the image above, note the "T" in PERPETUAL, one side of its horizontal top-stroke being much shorter than the other, reminiscent of Andy Dufresne's rock hammer after twenty years in Shawshank.

    H
    Thanks Haywood- as ever the man with the knowledge! Makes me very happy I bought my 16610 from you!

  12. #12
    You can see why these things can be faked a lot,to most people you’d think a kid had painted the dial,you really need to know your stuff.


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk1974 View Post
    You can see why these things can be faked a lot,to most people you’d think a kid had painted the dial,you really need to know your stuff.
    We should remember that these dials are now fifty years old. They were never intended to be viewed with a macro lens!

    Lifting some of the pictures from my own article, here is a much clearer image of a frog's foot dial :



    Yes, that may look crude under such magnification, but consider it in this second image which better represents how one might see it with the naked eye :



    As for them being faked, I would contend that the more idiosyncratic the printing, the easier it is to determine what is correct. Those repeated, unique imperfections are being missed by the bad guys or too difficult for them to reproduce.
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 5th January 2023 at 23:46.

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    Having trouble posting the image from my phone, but will post from PC tomorrow if this doesn't work
    Last edited by fierbois16; 7th February 2024 at 21:13.

  15. #15
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    Deleted
    Last edited by fierbois16; 7th February 2024 at 21:34. Reason: Failed attempt at posting an image

  16. #16
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    Hopefully this has worked

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  17. #17
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    I fear it is a cobbling together of parts (significantly incorrect) at best.

  18. #18
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    Thanks Haywood, I appreciate your time. Can I ask is it a complete fake, or does it have some genuine features? I will ask the team for more information on the guys story, for my own curiosity

  19. #19
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    I don't think you're going to find much is right with that one, but some individual components might be.

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