20 mph in Wales

[higham5]

Just a reminder for our Welsh residents or visitors. The period of grace from the introduction of the “ not blanket” 20 mph expires tomorrow and enforcement begins.

Since Sep17 th all the community watch Tzars have been stood down and we have seen very few GO- Safe vans in our area.

However that may soon change. Local press and news are advising enforcement commencing from the 17th Dec.

From my observation of drivers obeying the new 20’s I predict……………carnage, with quite a few official letters dropping through letterboxes in late Dec early Jan.

Steve

[Mj2k]

Was chatting to someone from Wales on the plane last week & she was not a fan, especially with the hilly parts where you’re hunting between gears all the time if in traffic.

Ridiculous decision, Bradford on Avon has 20mph through the town centre, was their yesterday and it’s just painful.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[pete-r]

It's appalling, and honestly causing more problems than before. I've seen people who would normally speed 40 in a 30 now just do 40 in a 20. Meanwhile I've seen people do 20 in 60 zones and saw one chap get pulled over by an ambulance for a word.

The feeling of anxiety is palpable and I spend more time looking at the speedo than the road.

The road I live on is still 20 in one direction and 30 in the other if you follow the signs, and the paint they used to spray over many the 30 signs is fading away and some modern cars with camera are apparently getting confused. WTAF!

It's like the wild west.

I recently built an ebike for my daily commute and can now go comfortably over 20 with no insurance, tax, petrol and general consequence to worry about (unless I crash) so stuff the rules!

[Montello]

I recently built an ebike for my daily commute and can now go comfortably over 20 with no insurance, tax, petrol and general consequence to worry about (unless I crash) so stuff the rules!

So you are riding a motorcycle with no tax, insurance or mot….

[blackal]

I recently built an ebike for my daily commute and can now go comfortably over 20 with no insurance, tax, petrol and general consequence to worry about (unless I crash) so stuff the rules!

So you are riding a motorcycle with no tax, insurance or mot….

I'm not in Traffic Police - but I'm pretty sure his E-bike aint a motorcycle.

[Montello]

I'm not in Traffic Police - but I'm pretty sure his E-bike aint a motorcycle.

If it can do 20mph it’s a motorcycle and subject to all the requirements as such.


https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules




Other kinds of electric bike

Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.

[Saint-Just]

I'm not in Traffic Police - but I'm pretty sure his E-bike aint a motorcycle.

I believe Montello is correct when it comes to the inbuilt capabilities...

the maximum speed of the bike Its electric motor: must have a maximum power output of 250 watts should not be able to propel the bike when it's travelling more than 15.5mph

...but of course you are too if Pete-r goes faster under his own speed.

[robcuk]

So you are riding a motorcycle with no tax, insurance or mot….

I believe he means an e-bike, a bicycle with electric pedal assist, which should be limited to cut off pedal
assist at 15.5mph/25kmh.

[pugster]

the yokels will prb sort this out, everytime i visit my sister in south wales most of the speed cameras have a tyre hung on them and are set on fire , my sister says they have already started spraying over the 20mph signs.

[Montello]

I believe he means an e-bike, a bicycle with electric pedal assist, which should be limited to cut off pedal
assist at 15.5mph/25kmh.

I recently built an ebike for my daily commute and can now go comfortably over 20 with no insurance, tax, petrol and general consequence to worry about (unless I crash) so stuff the rules!

I inferred from this statement that the pedal assist would not cut out from 15.5mph, the "stuff the rules" bit giving the impression that this new home built ebike would now allow the higher than 20mph ...

If he is simply cycling over 20mph then of course no problem ... apart from the problem of breaking the speed limit ... which only applies to motor vehicals.

[higham5]

We were in a pilot so we thought it would be easier for us to get used too. Wrong , they have messed with the signage in Flintshire so much. Since Sept 17th every 30 was reduced to 20 mph overnight.

Then over the last three months some 20’s are 30’s some 20’s are 40’s !!. And since 20 is the default speed in built up areas there are NO small repeater signs like there were in previous 30’s. So if anyone is unsure ( and lots of people are unsure) then their speed drifts down to 24/25 even in 40’s.

Its chaos, a recent significant opinion poll showed the number of people against the new 20 mph had grown from 60 to 70% over the last three months eg since adoption.

Wales the only place you can be done for kerb crawling and speeding at the same time :)

[Saint-Just]

I am not directly affected so have it easy but a couple of questions to those who are affected and hate it:
1) considering that hitting a pedestrian at 20mph is less lethal than at 30, and assuming the numbers remain identical, how many saved lives would it take for you to accept it was a good idea in the first place
2) most reasonably recent cars have a "LIM" function associated with the cruise control. This function allows you to set a maximum speed* and saves you from watching your speedometer all the time. Why not use it?

*Doesn't work if driving downward as it deactivates the throttle, no action on the brakes.

As a side note, many town centres in France are limited to 30 km/h and it goes quite smoothly with no specific butt pain.

[Mj2k]

I am not directly affected so have it easy but a couple of questions to those who are affected and hate it:
1) considering that hitting a pedestrian at 20mph is less lethal than at 30, and assuming the numbers remain identical, how many saved lives would it take for you to accept it was a good idea in the first place
2) most reasonably recent cars have a "LIM" function associated with the cruise control. This function allows you to set a maximum speed* and saves you from watching your speedometer all the time. Why not use it?

*Doesn't work if driving downward as it deactivates the throttle, no action on the brakes.

As a side note, many town centres in France are limited to 30 km/h and it goes quite smoothly with no specific butt pain.

10mph is even less lethal, where do you draw the line? Green cross code man clearly needs a comeback on television, and some pedestrian accountability. GCC Man existed before the brainless walked looking at their phones with headphones in, oblivious to surroundings but yet we pander to the lowest common denominator as per usual.

LIM isn’t as common as it should be where cruise control is fitted. It should be a function wherever CC is present, I personally much prefer it CC as can lift off to decrease my speed vs the CC feeling of relentless progression. I can then keep control of my speeding via manage my braking distance to the car in front by lifting off (motorways, not 20 or 30mph)

Need to check if LIM does actually work at 20mph, as I know CC won’t, so not sure if it’s a connected technology whether the limit function does either. Tomorrow’s experiment sorted then!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[redmonaco]

10mph is even less lethal, where do you draw the line? Green cross code man clearly needs a comeback on television, and some pedestrian accountability. GCC Man existed before the brainless walked looking at their phones with headphones in, oblivious to surroundings but yet we pander to the lowest common denominator as per usual.

LIM isn’t as common as it should be where cruise control is fitted. It should be a function wherever CC is present, I personally much prefer it CC as can lift off to decrease my speed vs the CC feeling of relentless progression. I can then keep control of my speeding via manage my braking distance to the car in front by lifting off (motorways, not 20 or 30mph)

Need to check if LIM does actually work at 20mph, as I know CC won’t, so not sure if it’s a connected technology whether the limit function does either. Tomorrow’s experiment sorted then!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'd suggest the lowest common denominator are those that won't stick to the speed limit...

Aggressive driving and lack of patience by drivers has created a very dangerous place for cyclists, pedestrians and children.

I think 20 in residential areas a very good idea. However, I also understand that those thickos that won't and don't abide by speed limits will carry on being a danger to others

[watchcollector1]

10mph is even less lethal, where do you draw the line? Green cross code man clearly needs a comeback on television, and some pedestrian accountability. GCC Man existed before the brainless walked looking at their phones with headphones in, oblivious to surroundings but yet we pander to the lowest common denominator as per usual.

LIM isn’t as common as it should be where cruise control is fitted. It should be a function wherever CC is present, I personally much prefer it CC as can lift off to decrease my speed vs the CC feeling of relentless progression. I can then keep control of my speeding via manage my braking distance to the car in front by lifting off (motorways, not 20 or 30mph)

Need to check if LIM does actually work at 20mph, as I know CC won’t, so not sure if it’s a connected technology whether the limit function does either. Tomorrow’s experiment sorted then!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Typical entitled driver response.

There are plenty of brainless drivers on the road too who'll make mistakes at pedestrian crossings, etc.

[bwest76]

I tried setting my cruise control at 20mph (its in England as well, out of towns well away from pedestrians in a lot of places) you cant do it.

Everyone is so unsure they are concertining and going down to 10mph or slower,so even leaving a big gap you end up braking.

Its far less safe when you arent looking out for danger just constantly looking at your speedo and its causing anxiety.

Signs are not clear and there is no logic to it.


In a built up area,school or Hospital area fine.

This is just stupidity to match all the other stupid things the idiots have done.

[xellos99]

Even more of the 20 signs will get sprayed with black paint then, tons of them have already been vandalised in rural areas

[china]

As a side note, many town centres in France are limited to 30 km/h and it goes quite smoothly with no specific butt pain.

Here as well, 30km/h is the norm in city and town centers. I kind of like it, in real life the speed people drive are probably closer to 40km/h, but speeds are definitely down from what they were in the past. Makes no real difference to journey times and it's somehow relaxing when driving.

[bwest76]

It is not just in city centres its in rural areas with no pedestrians,open areas with wide roads and no footfall.

Like the 15 min citys and LTNS etc.its ego driven, undemocratic, nonsense.

[Onelasttime]

Was chatting to someone from Wales on the plane last week & she was not a fan, especially with the hilly parts where you’re hunting between gears all the time if in traffic.

Ridiculous decision, Bradford on Avon has 20mph through the town centre, was their yesterday and it’s just painful.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'd be interested to know how you could drive safely through Bradford on Avon at a speed greater than 20? It's all blind bends, hills and hidden side roads. Plus, every time I've been there it's been chocka anyway so the speed was more like 10.

I'm all for 20 in built up areas like Bradford on Avon, but the Wales ruling seems like sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut legislation.

Plus, there are built up areas with huge wide roads and foot bridges that don't need to be 20. That really is painful.

[Mj2k]

I'd be interested to know how you could drive safely through Bradford on Avon at a speed greater than 20? It's all blind bends, hills and hidden side roads. Plus, every time I've been there it's been chocka anyway so the speed was more like 10.

I'm all for 20 in built up areas like Bradford on Avon, but the Wales ruling seems like sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut legislation.

Plus, there are built up areas with huge wide roads and foot bridges that don't need to be 20. That really is painful.

I managed for 10 years after passing my test at 17 without hitting anything or anyone.

It is only 20 in the centre, and despite yokels not able to understand roundabouts or box junctions (that have not been on place for years), remain the major challenge.

Blind humpback bridges create their own speed limits and amusingly both of these remain at 30mph which makes a farce of the 20 mph clear sighted areas.

[Onelasttime]

I managed for 10 years after passing my test at 17 without hitting anything or anyone.

It is only 20 in the centre, and despite yokels not able to understand roundabouts or box junctions (that have not been on place for years), remain the major challenge.

Blind humpback bridges create their own speed limits and amusingly both of these remain at 30mph which makes a farce of the 20 mph clear sighted areas.

You might well be a fantastic driver (isn’t everyone when asked?) but times have changed and roads are busier now. Speed limits are the maximum permitted speed, not the speed you should drive at so your bridge analogy doesn’t work. I wouldn’t hit a blind hump bridge at 30 just in case some idiot coming the other way decided 30 was too slow.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

You might well be a fantastic driver (isn’t everyone when asked?) but times have changed and roads are busier now. Speed limits are the maximum permitted speed, not the speed you should drive at so your bridge analogy doesn’t work. I wouldn’t hit a blind hump bridge at 30 just in case some idiot coming the other way decided 30 was too slow.

Speed limits are not the issue, people not sticking to them is.

I remain unconvinced that other than in the vicinity of schools and hospitals that it's a worthwhile measure except for the revenue potential.

[Mj2k]

Speed limits are the maximum permitted speed, not the speed you should drive at

Always smile when anyone types this on a forum, as you know you have found that special person.

[Saint-Just]

20mph is the limit to set CC on my 10 yo Beemer but Lim works at slower speeds.

While GCC probably needs to be revived, children playing and elderly will still be prime victims: not all accidents are due to the pedestrians. More importantly the traffic has probably increased several folds since GCC. More traffic, greater risk.
As I said it’s not something they pulled out of their fundament, it’s been on the continent for decades and it works. And no one thought there it would be a good idea to spray paint them. So maybe a return of some sort of education on how to behave in society for the common good instead of just self interest would be more useful than the man in green.

[redmonaco]

20mph is the limit to set CC on my 10 yo Beemer but Lim works at slower speeds.

While GCC probably needs to be revived, children playing and elderly will still be prime victims: not all accidents are due to the pedestrians. More importantly the traffic has probably increased several folds since GCC. More traffic, greater risk.
As I said it’s not something they pulled out of their fundament, it’s been on the continent for decades and it works. And no one thought there it would be a good idea to spray paint them. So maybe a return of some sort of education on how to behave in society for the common good instead of just self interest would be more useful than the man in green.

Very well said

[chrisjones3]

I just drove diagonally from Manchester airport to Fishguard today first time in wales since it was introduced and it is a real ball ache. Some parts make sense other are frankly ridiculousness. Now with Drayford going I wonder if at some point they will reverse it. No one here thinks it’s a good idea from my straw poll of neighbours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LRB255]

We travel to Anglesey regular and at first found it strange however if you just get your head around it, it doesn't beat you up. Must say though, that it does feel a little intimidating when someones up your rear end, chomping at the bit at 20 :) when doing 30 there always seemed to be a happy gap between vehicles

[M3NTALIST]

Appreciate the heads up. I expect to see cameras all over the place if I head to hills for a drive tomorrow. They’re usually just a problem on A roads, I expect they will be as big a problem on the slower roads too now.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Suds]

Apparently, when a pedestrian is in a collision with a motor car they are 20 times more likely to die if the car is travelling at 30mph, but 7 times more likely at 20mph compared to a 10mph collision (or something like that )

[Tifa]

Apparently, when a pedestrian is in a collision with a motor car they are 20 times more likely to die if the car is travelling at 30mph, but 7 times more likely at 20mph compared to a 10mph collision (or something like that )

And statistically, when a motorcyclist rides at a steady 20mph he is 7 times more likely to die from boredom

[Suds]

And statistically, when a motorcyclist rides at a steady 20mph he is 7 times more likely to die from boredom

Can we live in hope, or is that not woke?

[gingerboy]

I live in Wales and I wholly embrace 20mph near schools and built up areas. Anywhere else is nonsense.

There are many other issues that need addressing such as mobile usage, drug driving, drink driving and piss poor driving standards.

Don't even get me started on Mark Dickford, cannot stand the guy.



Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk

[RobDad]

I would have thought most drivers would struggle to keep their car at or below 20mph for any length of time - even in a geared car you’re constantly swapping cogs to keep within the band of 15-25 mph - it seems to me they’re not really designed to stay at that low a speed for very long. Throw in speed bumps, inclines etc and it gets ever trickier. Not impossible but very tricky. Compared to 30mph where 3rd gear is enough to keep moving without the risk of stalling, it is a faff. And that’s nothing to do with driving skill - just the way the gearing is set up. An electric car on the contrary is easy to keep at 20, but nobody can hear you coming!

[Tooks]

An electric car on the contrary is easy to keep at 20, but nobody can hear you coming!

At a steady 20mph, tyre noise is very similar on any car, tyres punt out around 70dB just by rolling on the road.

An accelerating ICE or a loud exhaust will be more noticeable, obviously, but in all cases the onus is on the driver to be aware of other road users and drive accordingly.

[Suds]

Gwen in our village is a bit of a celebrity- she wears a hi-viz jacket and stands at the roadside pointing a hairdryer at the speeders…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldoakknives]

Well that didn't end well for the 20mph limit.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...paign=sharebar

[JasonM]

Well that didn't end well for the 20mph limit.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...paign=sharebar

Quite refreshing that they can own up to it being a mistake and take corrective action though.

[Brian]

Quite refreshing that they can own up to it being a mistake and take corrective action though.

"mistake?" - the mistake they made was to "consult" less than 3k highly selected citizens (a proprtion of which were none drivers - not revealed) then assume that the subservient masses would be crushed into obedience.

[gingerboy]

"mistake?" - the mistake they made was to "consult" less than 3k highly selected citizens (a proprtion of which were none drivers - not revealed) then assume that the subservient masses would be crushed into obedience.

It's mind blowing that they thought people would just roll over!! However, as per other posts, an election looms and I guess they are hoping this will help get some votes back!

I've come up with a simpler plan, after 20 years+ in Wales I'm voting with my feet and moving back to England. The Welsh population seems to believe that continually voting labour will enable different political outcomes. Don't get me wrong, I've no idea who you'd vote for right now to get sensible outcomes!!!!

The proof will be in the pudding come election time in Wales, it blows my mind they were prepared to ignore a petition with 0.5million supporters

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk

[higham5]

Quite refreshing that they can own up to it being a mistake and take corrective action though.

As someone living with the contradictions I regret to say its more to do with gaining votes rather than reversing policy. I truly hope Im wrong

[oldoakknives]

I wonder how much the whole fiasco has cost?

[Ruggertech]

Well that didn't end well for the 20mph limit.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...paign=sharebar

You can always speed on the pavement if you prefer Ian ;)

[oldoakknives]

You can always speed on the pavement if you prefer Ian ;)

You assume I’m against them. I’m not.
I live in a 20 mph zone and am in favour of them in built up areas and especially near schools. I only wish more people would obey it, I regularly see people who appear to be doing nearer 40 than 20. And that with speed bumps in the road as well.
I don’t think they’re necessary outside built up areas though, I’m not convinced it’s needed.

[Ruggertech]

You assume I’m against them. I’m not.
I live in a 20 mph zone and am in favour of them in built up areas and especially near schools. I only wish more people would obey it, I regularly see people who appear to be doing nearer 40 than 20. And that with speed bumps in the road as well.
I don’t think they’re necessary outside built up areas though, I’m not convinced it’s needed.

It was a joke relating to the red light jumping thread Ian.
There a few if any 20 zones outside built up areas, seems to be a myth in certain parts of the press that Wales has a 20 limit everywhere.
Although there are definitely anomalies that need tweaking as I said. For example, when I drive to see my dad, there is a village I drive through (Maesycymmer) that is 30mph all the way through (its side streets are 20), then when you get onto the Pontllanfraith / Blackwood Road it's 20mph all the way for about 2 miles, even on the sections with no houses. There are probably many more examples out there.

[Passenger]

You can always speed on the pavement if you prefer Ian ;)

Nearly spat out my porridge

[Linocut]

We live near Wales and there are 20 mph limits in most of the English towns and villages in our county. We had a wander up Moel Famau today and on the drive there there are no 20 limits, in fact a notorious long downhill into Mold is still a 40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk