Bremont - what have they done?

[andy100]

Another interesting take on the whole thing from Watch & Wound: https://wornandwound.com/our-reactio...remont-rebrand

I find myself agreeing with quite a lot of Zach Weiss' opinion (writing the latter half of the piece). I've not been a particular fan of the design aesthetic of the 'old' Bremont but a few pieces looked ok, but the new designs are just a car crash.

If you go to Davide Cerrato's instagram, there's some short video clips of the new watches, which don't make them look any better than the pictures IMO. The negative comments make for some amusing reading though.

[adigra]

I did the artwork on the Bremont Bus (Nick's airplane) a few years ago in exchange for the Boeing 247 (my choice) as I was a fan of the brand. I love the watch and my story behind it, so am genuinely sad to see this development. Echoing the general feelings, I think everything about this rebrand is very poorly handled, down to Cerrato's dismissive comments about the previous designs. Very strange to take over an existing brand and just strip it of all identity. If you're going to alienate the current customer base why not just start a new brand?

[MrBanks]

I did the artwork on the Bremont Bus (Nick's airplane) a few years ago in exchange for the Boeing 247 (my choice) as I was a fan of the brand. I love the watch and my story behind it, so am genuinely sad to see this development. Echoing the general feelings, I think everything about this rebrand is very poorly handled, down to Cerrato's dismissive comments about the previous designs. Very strange to take over an existing brand and just strip it of all identity. If you're going to alienate the current customer base why not just start a new brand?

That was a great project, I have a lot of good memories about that period of Bremont.

[Nealywheelie]

I did the artwork on the Bremont Bus (Nick's airplane) a few years ago in exchange for the Boeing 247 (my choice) as I was a fan of the brand. I love the watch and my story behind it, so am genuinely sad to see this development. Echoing the general feelings, I think everything about this rebrand is very poorly handled, down to Cerrato's dismissive comments about the previous designs. Very strange to take over an existing brand and just strip it of all identity. If you're going to alienate the current customer base why not just start a new brand?

Thank you for the insight, very sad development in my humble opinion.
My Alt1-P will never leave me,


Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

[adigra]

That was a great project, I have a lot of good memories about that period of Bremont.

It was a memorable couple of days, to say the least. I can't remember ever being as tired as I was at the end of day one, but they gave me the watch and I remember being so happy with it. The Venom art stayed on the plane until last year. It was only meant to be a few weeks, but ended up being many years.

[Montello]

If you're going to alienate the current customer base why not just start a new brand?

That’s what I don’t get, if you drop all the products and rebrand what have you actually bought? The staff, the infrastructure and the name. Seems an expensive way to do a start up.

[Sinnlover]

Well if the Mrs is anything to go by the rebrand and new designs will be a success

Yesterday she saw a large billboard advert for one of the new models and she said “oooooo that’s nice”
If it wasn’t for the fact we were on the A4 fly over I would have made her get out and walk.

[100thmonkey]

Well if the Mrs is anything to go by the rebrand and new designs will be a success

Yesterday she saw a large billboard advert for one of the new models and she said “oooooo that’s nice”
If it wasn’t for the fact we were on the A4 fly over I would have made her get out and walk.

And that’s the thing, those without prejudice or distraction will admire it for what it is not th hype and marketing or profit / status. Quite refreshing to get a neutral view.

[neuman356]

If you go to Davide Cerrato's instagram, there's some short video clips of the new watches, which don't make them look any better than the pictures IMO. The negative comments make for some amusing reading though.

Have to say I think the Terra Nova does actually look a lot better there than in the pictures, very subjective of course.

[TaketheCannoli]

Would anyone here not buy a heritage model now for fear of warranty issues?

[Christian]

Would anyone here not buy a heritage model now for fear of warranty issues?

Wouldn’t cross my mind to be honest. I think the chances of Bremont instantly collapsing are zero and they also don’t use in house movements so no problem there either!

[TaketheCannoli]

Fair point.

Wouldn’t cross my mind to be honest. I think the chances of Bremont instantly collapsing are zero and they also don’t use in house movements so no problem there either!

[jukeboxs]

Wouldn’t cross my mind to be honest. I think the chances of Bremont instantly collapsing are zero and they also don’t use in house movements so no problem there either!

Viper or Fury owners would probably disagree with you on the latter.

[adigra]

If a rich investor walked into Morgan cars and liked their cars so decided to buy the company, but then discarded their quirky models completely and chose instead to build a Morgan badged VW Golf alternative, while saying their previous models were a bit crap, it would seem strange indeed. I am sure those "Golfs" would appeal to a larger cross section of the population, who would then still go and buy an actual Golf. It just seems a very odd course of action.

As one of the articles posted pointed out, if it was a dead brand, such as MG, to continue the car analogy, then fair play. But Bremont, while apparently making some poor financial decisions and stagnating, still had a very strong loyal base. Keep them happy AND introduce the more mass appeal models, but to do a complete rebrand downmarket just seems mad.

[theancientmariner]

Viper or Fury owners would probably disagree with you on the latter.

Viper, Fury, Audley, Supernova, Longitude.....

incidentally, just been on the Bremont website and the "Bremont Icons" section which I thought was their heritage models subsection now has the first two rows as some of the new Terra Nova and Supermarine models with a very eclectic mix of other Bremont models. It looks almost like a clearance section without clearance prices and with the first two rows set to push customers towards the new models. Very odd!

[Christian]

Viper, Fury, Audley, Supernova, Longitude.....

incidentally, just been on the Bremont website and the "Bremont Icons" section which I thought was their heritage models subsection now has the first two rows as some of the new Terra Nova and Supermarine models with a very eclectic mix of other Bremont models. It looks almost like a clearance section without clearance prices and with the first two rows set to push customers towards the new models. Very odd!

I should probably have said "majority" don't use in house...I can't imagine the percentage by ownership by number of watches of in-house Bremonts by is high.

[gbn13]

I should probably have said "majority" don't use in house...I can't imagine the percentage by ownership by number of watches of in-house Bremonts by is high.

I doubt they have sold many Supernova. Judging by the discount Jura had on a few in recent sales.

[Christian]

I doubt they have sold many Supernova. Judging by the discount Jura had on a few in recent sales.

I think Viper was a limited run too. I'd bet in-house to outsourced movement percentage is pretty small and not particularly economically palatable to the new investors, particularly when you read articles like the one posted by the Observer in the other thread that say "British watchmaking has hit big time" but describes a load of microbrands assembling watches from Chinese and Japanese parts. I'm not sure the majorty of people care or even know about true watchmaking and whether British in-house movements are used.

[Tom-P]

Banks Lyon email received just now: 'Act Fast! 30% OFF All Bremont Watches ...'

[theancientmariner]

Banks Lyon email received just now: 'Act Fast! 30% OFF All Bremont Watches ...'

curious, I've just had a quick look and they've gone from having 10 pages of Bremonts including all the new models a week ago to 3 pages of Bremonts, all 'heritage' models and all with probably 30 percent off today. Looks like their main Bremont page has become a 'sale' page. Makes you wonder whether they're dropping the brand?

[theancientmariner]

I'm not sure the majorty of people care or even know about true watchmaking and whether British in-house movements are used.

May be that's what Bremonts new direction has realised, that the vast majority of the watch buying public, at home or abroad, don't really care what we care about and will buy based on price and brand alone. They might see a watch with a British brand name and London on the dial as a British watch even though there's almost nothing British about it?

[earlofsodbury]

The decision-making leading to Bremont's brand-decimation smacks of the sort of cocaine-fuelled egomania that propels the likes of Elon Musk, and when one notes Davide Cerrato's personal "style" (Lawrence Llwellyn-Bowen schmutter + Mad Professor specs), suspicions are piqued...

DC's time at assorted manufacturers is given a generous thumbs-up from the kind of watch-publications that never dare bite the hand that feeds, so he is personally credited with Tudor's success - even though there can have been no easier brand relaunch in the history of watchmaking (HWF's resources + Rolex credibility + lower prices + supersafe retro-referencing dive watches).

But his gig with Montblanc, where he is credited as having bought Minerva into the pen-whittler's fold, is also marked by a failure to make much of Minerva's name and heritage other than a passing nod in some promotional copy. Certainly Montblanc remain distinctly an also-ran in the watch world, distinguished only by their utter lack of distinguishing features...

Then there was his brief time attempting to resurrect HYT - pricey one trick ponies that use a fluid-based time display. There he announced "The Vintage Wave is ending" to a chorus of indifference - before moving to Bremont and issuing a slew of highly derivative vintage-referencing watches - to widespread indifference...

It's also unusual for someone as senior as Cerrato to leave the likes of Richemont of their own volition to go to a no-name, and even more so for an Italian watch mogul to abandon Europe to work with an obscure watch-assembler in a backwater isolationist nation that's still reeling from its own recent geopolitical foot-shootings... England must surely be where such horological careers go to die?

[Saint-Just]

The decision-making leading to Bremont's brand-decimation smacks of the sort of cocaine-fuelled egomania that propels the likes of Elon Musk, and when one notes Davide Cerrato's personal "style" (Lawrence Llwellyn-Bowen schmutter + Mad Professor specs), suspicions are piqued...

DC's time at assorted manufacturers is given a generous thumbs-up from the kind of watch-publications that never dare bite the hand that feeds, so he is personally credited with Tudor's success - even though there can have been no easier brand relaunch in the history of watchmaking (HWF's resources + Rolex credibility + lower prices + supersafe retro-referencing dive watches).

But his gig with Montblanc, where he is credited as having bought Minerva into the pen-whittler's fold, is also marked by a failure to make much of Minerva's name and heritage other than a passing nod in some promotional copy. Certainly Montblanc remain distinctly an also-ran in the watch world, distinguished only by their utter lack of distinguishing features...

Then there was his brief time attempting to resurrect HYT - pricey one trick ponies that use a fluid-based time display. There he announced "The Vintage Wave is ending" to a chorus of indifference - before moving to Bremont and issuing a slew of highly derivative vintage-referencing watches - to widespread indifference...

It's also unusual for someone as senior as Cerrato to leave the likes of Richemont of their own volition to go to a no-name, and even more so for an Italian watch mogul to abandon Europe to work with an obscure watch-assembler in a backwater isolationist nation that's still reeling from its own recent geopolitical foot-shootings... England must surely be where such horological careers go to die?

Cerrato reminds me of Dominic West in a certain building society advert. Not sure why.

[verv]

curious, I've just had a quick look and they've gone from having 10 pages of Bremonts including all the new models a week ago to 3 pages of Bremonts, all 'heritage' models and all with probably 30 percent off today. Looks like their main Bremont page has become a 'sale' page. Makes you wonder whether they're dropping the brand?

[Carlton-Browne]

The decision-making leading to Bremont's brand-decimation smacks of the sort of cocaine-fuelled egomania that propels the likes of Elon Musk, and when one notes Davide Cerrato's personal "style" (Lawrence Llwellyn-Bowen schmutter + Mad Professor specs), suspicions are piqued...

DC's time at assorted manufacturers is given a generous thumbs-up from the kind of watch-publications that never dare bite the hand that feeds, so he is personally credited with Tudor's success - even though there can have been no easier brand relaunch in the history of watchmaking (HWF's resources + Rolex credibility + lower prices + supersafe retro-referencing dive watches).

But his gig with Montblanc, where he is credited as having bought Minerva into the pen-whittler's fold, is also marked by a failure to make much of Minerva's name and heritage other than a passing nod in some promotional copy. Certainly Montblanc remain distinctly an also-ran in the watch world, distinguished only by their utter lack of distinguishing features...

Then there was his brief time attempting to resurrect HYT - pricey one trick ponies that use a fluid-based time display. There he announced "The Vintage Wave is ending" to a chorus of indifference - before moving to Bremont and issuing a slew of highly derivative vintage-referencing watches - to widespread indifference...

It's also unusual for someone as senior as Cerrato to leave the likes of Richemont of their own volition to go to a no-name, and even more so for an Italian watch mogul to abandon Europe to work with an obscure watch-assembler in a backwater isolationist nation that's still reeling from its own recent geopolitical foot-shootings... England must surely be where such horological careers go to die?

I think you’ve hit several nails on the head there. For heaven’s sake, I wear buffalo horn glasses but the key thing is that I wear them but in the case of DC they look like they are wearing him. I’ve worked with (or rather against) too many primadonna architects to not see that as a red flag.

There are some wonderful vintage style Montblancs that are just crying to have Minerva on the dial. It’s an open goal and they presumably own the IP. FFS!

[Saint-Just]

I think you’ve hit several nails on the head there. For heaven’s sake, I wear buffalo horn glasses but the key thing is that I wear them but in the case of DC they look like they are wearing him. I’ve worked with (or rather against) too many primadonna architects to not see that as a red flag.

There are some wonderful vintage style Montblancs that are just crying to have Minerva on the dial. It’s an open goal and they presumably own the IP. FFS!

Fabien Galthié (French team rugby coach) is nicknamed "Le Rapetou" (Disney's Beagle Boy)

[Dave E]

It does seem to be a case of chucking away almost everything that has gone before in the relaunch. The departure of their original case designs is a particular loss, I've always liked the case and lugs on those (I've had a couple of Bremonts and liked them). The new designs seem far more generic, but let's not pretend to ourselves that watch-collectors are really the target market for these. Our opinions are not particularly valuable to many businesses outside of the microbrand space, frankly.

[Carlton-Browne]

Fabien Galthié (French team rugby coach) is nicknamed "Le Rapetou" (Disney's Beagle Boy)

It’s a fine line (which has clearly been crossed in the case of yer man)

Where I come from from, Galtee is a brand of bacon.

[theancientmariner]

there are those that are curious and those that jump in with both feet....

my other thought which I didn't mention, is that it might be easier to have a generic 30 percent sale of all the older models by removing all the newer models from their website and reintroducing the newer models after the sale. The difference between 3 pages worth of models on sale and 10 pages mixed must be significant from a marketing point of view.

we'll see.....

[Nicholas]

there are those that are curious and those that jump in with both feet....

my other thought which I didn't mention, is that it might be easier to have a generic 30 percent sale of all the older models by removing all the newer models from their website and reintroducing the newer models after the sale. The difference between 3 pages worth of models on sale and 10 pages mixed must be significant from a marketing point of view.

we'll see.....

My first thought, when I saw such comments, was to consider the business perception of the AD and their contractual obligations from Bremont. From what I suspect, there are 'loan agreements, including rebates' so, at a certain point Banks Lyons' have adopted a pragmatic approach relative to your interpretation.

[MrBanks]

I met some friends yesterday, one of which still works there and the reality is as drastic as the public perception with regards to doing a U turn on everything the founders created. Really quite shocking to hear.

[Daddelvirks]

Fabien Galthié (French team rugby coach) is nicknamed "Le Rapetou" (Disney's Beagle Boy)

Why is he wearing welding goggles?

[funkstar]

I doubt they have sold many Supernova. Judging by the discount Jura had on a few in recent sales.

It was a very tough sell, but has been growing on me. In the mean time the Fury and Audley were beautiful.

I wonder at what point the brothers knew it was all going to change - it felt like they had no idea.

[theancientmariner]

From what I suspect, there are 'loan agreements, including rebates' so, at a certain point Banks Lyons' have adopted a pragmatic approach relative to your interpretation.

there never used to be but times may have changed. I know a local AD had to buy in their models direct from Bremont, whatever they had on display, they had purchased. Of course in current times, the vast majority of online retailers won't actually have stock of most models, they'll buy direct from Bremont when an online order is placed.

[wildheart]

I've always thought of them as a British version of Kobold, a few decent idea's but vastly over priced. I went to see them at Jura watches in London many years ago and liked one or two designs but on the wrist was very underwhelmed.

[andy100]

I met some friends yesterday, one of which still works there and the reality is as drastic as the public perception with regards to doing a U turn on everything the founders created. Really quite shocking to hear.

That's very sad to hear. It very much sounds like the new management have taken a page out of Elon Musk's playbook.

I wonder at what point the brothers knew it was all going to change - it felt like they had no idea.

I wonder if what they were sold on was a very different model to what's happening...

[verv]

I met some friends yesterday, one of which still works there and the reality is as drastic as the public perception with regards to doing a U turn on everything the founders created. Really quite shocking to hear.

Do you know what will become of the ENG300?
Im wondering if or how models with that movement will be maintained in the future if it's shelved in favour of cheap generic (in line with the brand downturn)

[Passenger]

That's very sad to hear. It very much sounds like the new management have taken a page out of Elon Musk's playbook.




I wonder if what they were sold on was a very different model to what's happening...

Ah but the money, the pay off though...

[Nicholas]

there never used to be but times may have changed. I know a local AD had to buy in their models direct from Bremont, whatever they had on display, they had purchased. Of course in current times, the vast majority of online retailers won't actually have stock of most models, they'll buy direct from Bremont when an online order is placed.

Scary to have so much potentially invested. I know the last Bremont I purchased, a Viper, was an allocation the AD had to commit to, and recall from past models, of which the prior was 2018, the same principle applied. I have no idea if that applies to the whole industry (Rolex & PP excluded!!!).

[sweets]

I think they were held over the proverbial barrel.
I have no doubt that their commitment to it all was total, but that their expansion plans required too much financing for them to retain control, and even though the more recent investments came in with some very worthy promises to keep the whole ship sailing in the same direction, once the control was effectively total (and one investor, Hellcat, does hold more than 50% of the voting rights), the fate was sealed.
There has clearly been a decision to "leverage" the brand and cash in by massively reducing production costs whilst not reducing prices to any notable extent (core range models, not the expensive ones).
Which is a classic one-time-only move that VC players like to make when wanting to cash in (or out, depending on terminology).
And it ruins the brand forever, for the potential of one short term gain.
Dismal. It really is.
Because from here it looks like Cerato's stylistic direction for the brand has bombed. Badly
And the cash in may well fail.

[Christian]

Ah but the money, the pay off though...

Can't really blame them. Through savvy marketing they build a brand with no history at all that put them in the same segment as Omega, Breitling etc, with boutiques in many major cities. I guess they needed to seek investment to continually grow but were also staring down the barrel of economic uncertainty in the luxury goods market. It's only a luxury goods company...I reckon cashing out was pretty sensible.

[earlofsodbury]

I've just had a gaze into "Mystic Sod's Crystal Ball(ocks)", and predict Bremont will exist as a name only within a larger, Swiss or Chinese based consortium five years from now. Elsewhere, Davide Cerrato will be in charge of Invicta's new CHF250,000,000 Swiss HQ; "The Wing" will be Britain's finest priciest Weatherspoons, and The Bros will be back to putting tiny bits of antique aircraft inside Chinese-made tchotchkes...

[Neil.C]

I met some friends yesterday, one of which still works there and the reality is as drastic as the public perception with regards to doing a U turn on everything the founders created. Really quite shocking to hear.

That's horrible news.

I hope our old pal @Omegary is OK as he was working there.

[andy100]

Can't really blame them. Through savvy marketing they build a brand with no history at all that put them in the same segment as Omega, Breitling etc, with boutiques in many major cities. I guess they needed to seek investment to continually grow but were also staring down the barrel of economic uncertainty in the luxury goods market. It's only a luxury goods company...I reckon cashing out was pretty sensible.

If I was in their shoes I probably would've cashed out when given the chance too!

[andy100]

I think they were held over the proverbial barrel.
I have no doubt that their commitment to it all was total, but that their expansion plans required too much financing for them to retain control, and even though the more recent investments came in with some very worthy promises to keep the whole ship sailing in the same direction, once the control was effectively total (and one investor, Hellcat, does hold more than 50% of the voting rights), the fate was sealed.

As soon as the whole saga started to unfold and I read the name of the majority investor, I thought that it speaks volumes really on the current trajectory.

[sweets]

That's horrible news.

I hope our old pal @Omegary is OK as he was working there.

Gary left a while ago, I believe. I hope so, at least.

[Omegary]

That's horrible news.

I hope our old pal @Omegary is OK as he was working there.

Gary left a while ago, I believe. I hope so, at least.

Thanks Neil and Dave.

I left Bremont around 18 months ago and, for once, I think my timing was pretty good.

After nearly 10 years working there I had mixed emotions about leaving, after all they gave me my first job in horology and I had a lot of good experiences in the early years. However, as the company grew it became apparent that there would be no progression for assembly staff and no training or indeed encouragement to improve. From what I hear that situation has only got worse.

One of the things that made me proud to work at Bremont was that each assembler built the watches from start to finish. So case assembly, fitting hands and dials, casing up, regulation, pressure testing and any quality control corrections was all done by the assembler responsible for that batch of watches. I got a daft sense of satisfaction from knowing I'd built thousands of watches in their entirety and indeed, some might have owned and hopefully enjoyed by you guys. Not to mention all the special edition watches and military projects I worked on.

Unfortunately I think the watches are now made on an assembly line with each assembler only responsible for one part of the process. I understand this is probably more efficient but I can't imagine there's much job satisfaction left.

As for the new direction from Davide, I know design is purely subjective but as a former designer and art director with decades in the profession and multiple awards, I think I can safely say it's a dramatic turn in the wrong direction. Visually it really cheapens the brand and everything that made the brand unique within a crowded market has been thrown away.

Despite all this I hope they make it work. There's some very good people there (and a lot of not so good people too). So for their sake I hope the company doesn't fold under the weight of expectations from the backers and poor decisions from the CEO.

Cheers,
Gary

[Neil.C]

Thanks Neil and Dave.

I left Bremont around 18 months ago and, for once, I think my timing was pretty good.

After nearly 10 years working there I had mixed emotions about leaving, after all they gave me my first job in horology and I had a lot of good experiences in the early years. However, as the company grew it became apparent that there would be no progression for assembly staff and no training or indeed encouragement to improve. From what I hear that situation has only got worse.

One of the things that made me proud to work at Bremont was that each assembler built the watches from start to finish. So case assembly, fitting hands and dials, casing up, regulation, pressure testing and any quality control corrections was all done by the assembler responsible for that batch of watches. I got a daft sense of satisfaction from knowing I'd built thousands of watches in their entirety and indeed, some might have owned and hopefully enjoyed by you guys. Not to mention all the special edition watches and military projects I worked on.

Unfortunately I think the watches are now made on an assembly line with each assembler only responsible for one part of the process. I understand this is probably more efficient but I can't imagine there's much job satisfaction left.

As for the new direction from Davide, I know design is purely subjective but as a former designer and art director with decades in the profession and multiple awards, I think I can safely say it's a dramatic turn in the wrong direction. Visually it really cheapens the brand and everything that made the brand unique within a crowded market has been thrown away.

Despite all this I hope they make it work. There's some very good people there (and a lot of not so good people too). So for their sake I hope the company doesn't fold under the weight of expectations from the backers and poor decisions from the CEO.

Cheers,
Gary

Glad you got out at the right time mate.

All the best.

[Christian]

Thanks Neil and Dave.

One of the things that made me proud to work at Bremont was that each assembler built the watches from start to finish. So case assembly, fitting hands and dials, casing up, regulation, pressure testing and any quality control corrections was all done by the assembler responsible for that batch of watches. I got a daft sense of satisfaction from knowing I'd built thousands of watches in their entirety and indeed, some might have owned and hopefully enjoyed by you guys. Not to mention all the special edition watches and military projects I worked on.

Interesting, thanks for the insight. I guess watchmaking like that only works financially when you customer base is willing to pay the premium for the notion of proper old-school watchmaking. I'm thinking Dornbluth etc. Looks like Bremont has set it's sights on a more mass produced market and they can only compete by streamlining to a more production line strategy.

[100thmonkey]

It may expand the reach of the typically UK brand to a wider market. Personally I like the brand. I know the exec and have always been well supported by them, they offered me a job a couple of years ago! Looks like I made the right decision not going but I want them to do well and give something to the market, sadly thats not our market anymore but another generation might embrace it we will see.