Reply With QuoteI think the thrust is that you should buy a San Martin instead.Originally Posted by adrianw
I've got two watches with that movement in, both seem fine, what are you supposed to do?
I think the thrust is that you should buy a San Martin instead.
Never tried / owned San Martin and probably never will, but have had quite a few Rolex and can speak from personal experience that 32xx calibre is not as superlative as they and a lot on here like to market it. Or could It’d been bad luck? 10-11 times
Wow, 10-11 Rolexes.Never tried / owned San Martin and probably never will, but have had quite a few Rolex and can speak from personal experience that 32xx calibre is not as superlative as they and a lot on here like to market it. Or could It’d been bad luck? 10-11 times
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
4 Submariners, 2 Explorer 36, 2 Explorer 40, Explorer II and 2 DJ.
The last Submariner died after I dropped it from no more than meter hight. Onto a wooded floor. No marks whatsoever just stopped after an hour. They fixed it no questions asked, but I didn’t bother anymore.
How many of the 11 did you have problems with? You said bad luck 10-11 times?
Since they fixed it was it so bad?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Only Rolex I really like is the Submariner. The one I kept the longest went back to RSC three times I think. All they do is regulate but tell you full service had been done etc. At least they polished the case free of charge at the end. Helped with the sale as it looked like new.
The last one I dropped and damaged just after a week. Then sold as well after they fixed it.
The Explorers all ran 2-3 seconds slow from new, so expected to get worse. Sold very shortly after purchase.
The rest also ran slow, but not on the wrist. 3-4 seconds unworn in the box. Only cared to check out of curiosity.
Just read the thread on TRF. Plenty feedback from all over.
The reason I asked the question is I have five, until recently it was nine, none of them have ever misbehaved, pick them up and the start, leave them on the side and they run down as they should, saying that if it were two seconds a day or three, I wouldn't notice
I have always had the attitude that if I needed accuracy wear a G-SHOCK or look at my phone, now it's moved on to an Apple Watch
I nearly said none of them have ever missed a beat, then remembered where I am and thought better of it
Last edited by adrianw; 30th April 2024 at 18:55.
So have you have had watches since that run better than 2-3 and 3-4 seconds I presume? San Martin perhaps, or other brands? Did you keep them running for a long time 'in the box' running at 3-4 seconds?
I'm interested to know which brands would be better at timekeeping than my Rolex?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I had an old Steinhart that gained one sec in two weeks, out performed any Rolex I’ve ever owned. I still maintain it’s a fools game buying an automatic watch and expecting perfection, it ain’t going to happen, buy a bloody G Shock if your life evolves around obsessing about a sec or two here and there.
Life’s to short, or is that too long if it’s running slow.
Its not about what others are accurate to.
My argument is that Rolex are fully aware of the 32xx issue, but prefer to treat customers like fools. Almost completely denying there is a problem with their Superlative Chronometers. 3-4 seconds slow eventually drops to 6-8 seconds. Often more.
And also, Rolex was the only watch that stopped after a small impact. And I have dropped many.
The closest I ever got to an honest answer was - yeah some do develop an amplitude problem, but because people don’t know how to wind their watches properly.
I have many watches, mostly mechanical, some quartz, and I couldn’t tell you how many seconds fast or slow any of them are.
They tell the time close enough for me so all is good.
I am interested how others see it though.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
On a more abstract level the timekeeping aspect itself wouldn't be that bothersome to me but low amplitude just means you have something in there somewhere (due to whatever, could be multiple factors) that isn't quite right and it should probably be looked at.
Last edited by neuman356; 30th April 2024 at 21:41.
You didn’t answer my question. You said…
“The Explorers all ran 2-3 seconds slow from new, so expected to get worse. Sold very shortly after purchase.
The rest also ran slow, but not on the wrist. 3-4 seconds unworn in the box. Only cared to check out of curiosity.”
I asked which watches you owned which were more accurate than that?
And if you expected them to deteriorate did they all have the movements that you claim are affected with the problems?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
You are fanboy aren’t you? Don’t you know what calibres they are?
Eight of those glorious rolex I acquired over the last four years were the same 3231. All losing time out of the box!
Ah! It seems they’ve abandoned the + -2 pledge:
So its now a rolex certification
Have this ol' Steiny Ocean Vintage, ETA2824, keeps time when wearing over a couple of days to roughly 1 seconds per day.
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Been this for 5 years, amazing IMHO. My Tudor BB with Breitling manufacture, calibre BO1 looses 8 secs per day.Have this ol' Steiny Ocean Vintage, ETA2824, keeps time when wearing over a couple of days to roughly 1 seconds per day.
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Presumably ‘fanboy’ is some kind of Rolex insult. Am I asking too many questions perhaps?You are fanboy aren’t you? Don’t you know what calibres they are?
Eight of those glorious rolex I acquired over the last four years were the same 3231. All losing time out of the box!
Ah! It seems they’ve abandoned the + -2 pledge:
So its now a rolex certification
So you bought 8 in the last 4 years with the 3231 movement which you said were losing between 1-2 and 3-4 seconds?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Omega. I'll get my coat.
Agree on all points - this:
Cost £90 or so brand new (with discounts!), and has lost one second in every two days since it arrived back in Feb. I have quartz watches (admittedly not my G-Shock) that do worse.
None of this would matter a rats arse were it not for the ludicrous hyperbole from Rolex and their obsessive cultists who insist there is simply no better watch. Even that wouldn't matter if it wasn't such an insult to the intelligence of all of us...
Timekeeping on a Rolex doesn’t matter anymore. You can tell this by looking at the Tudor range with three METAS certified watches (including one GMT) and Rolex with zero.
But Tudor is there to compete with Omega so that Rolex doesn’t have to anymore.
Its all about the AD experience
Less is more
Last edited by Toshk; 30th April 2024 at 23:03.
I'll remember that when I'm wearing one of mine.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Did you ever mention the terrible 1-2 second and 3-4 second timekeeping on the 8 Rolex you bought in the last 4 years before? Just wondering if it's something that you only realised was happening only recently?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
The +/-2 spd pledge is still present under the precision heading on the 'movement' drop down.Ah! It seems they’ve abandoned the + -2 pledge:
So its now a rolex certification
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The best, they are just the bestest of the bestest and I'm not taken in by any of the blurp, you are all just jealous, there's never ever a watch running better than a Rolex, Rolex is god, god is the best, try beating that!
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Are you ok?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
True re a life not really hinging on a few seconds here or there...heck some days I don´t need to know the date or day... However Rolex sell these watches with all manner of superlatives including about their ACCURATE time keeping...seems a bit of a swizz that their new movement appears to have pronounced tendency to run slow and the more so when it´s worn daily, whoever heard of an automatic watch that the more you wear it the worse the time keeping gets, rather disappointing to say the least...I mean the whole Swiss watch reputation, foundation, LEGEND even is built on their accuracy and reliability, ain´t it?? Rolex with it´s COSC watchamacallit leans heavily into this FAB...feature, advantage, benefit...
say one thing for them, superlative full spectrum text book marketing and that´s not knocking them.
Last edited by Passenger; 1st May 2024 at 11:09.
Agreed, but if you and I bought identical new Rolex watches at the same time and went our separate ways, one of us went for long walks, gardened, wore the watch in bed etc and the other sat on the couch watching football, drinking beer, eating Pizza and took the watch off at night would we get identical performances over a 24 hour period, I’m guessing not.
Equally, taking the watch off and lying flat as opposed to vertical with crown up or crown down will all have different impacts.
There are so many variables to factor in that can have impact on overall performance.
I don't know why you're bothering, this whole thread is pretty clearly a piece of nonsense. San Martin vs Rolex? Really?? At best it's a bit of a laugh, but more likely created as a troll thread and now running to page 4 it's surely exceeding expectations.
But if you even mention the 'R' brand in a thread, it always ends up as a multi page bitching fest! I don't dare even spell the name out in full!
But doesn´t the slowing down, losing time phenomenon seem more pronounced in those watches worn daily, and I take your point re active vs sedentary lifestyles and plausibly minor deviations in performance but again I refer to Rolex own clams, their own fabs, vibranium hairsprings and ethereal wotnots, these watches are so well crafted the only deviation will be a couple of seconds either way per day, max, ever...Now I´m not too bothered if a 60 -70 QUID Vostok loses- gains 10 or 30 seconds a day or taking my latest, a Baltic, 550 gbp, it´s gained about a minute in the first month...but if a 6500 gbp watch, marketed heavily on it´s reliability, accuracy creds...also suitability for pursuing robust, active, pursuits daily, hell Red Adair supposedly wore a datejust fighting oil fires for 100 years and never reset his...Starts losing a few or several seconds every single day in normal daily wear...c´mon are we supposed to check all our common sense when entering the AD´s premises...there´s something up, not right here...never mind that the product isn´t living up to the expectations, hype.
Perceived luxury is all. Emotions over facts.
Gotta admire the way they created the lists and the pre spend on lesser models to build the sense of value, the achievement of attaining the desired model. The psychology in play, to shape and model customer behaviour. Very clever, genius?
Impossible before Social Media.
Give ém their due always been able to identify, adapt to exploit the opportunity of the times...weren´t it Rolex who flogged watches to Allied POW´s in WW 2...officers only though, not to the hoi polloi.Clever stuff.
You are right of course. The one thing I’ve learnt about San Martin in recent weeks is that if you sell enough of them you will have enough cash to buy a lovely new shiny Omega Speedmaster.
You are correct!藍
If any of mine with one of the problem movements starts losing time, I will be sure to let everyone on here know and also express my displeasure to Rolex.
Until then, I will just wear them gardening, cooking, swimming, eating out, mountain and coastal walking etc..
I assume you have gone off the idea of buying one?
Oh hi, thought you'd left us.
Was still wondering about what I asked you earlier.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
These videos are mostly click bait fodder to keep the channel owners revenue rolling in and invariably pitched at the wider audience (people who want to believe they can get a better watch than a Rolex for £200).
Whereas it is true that San martin's finishing is exemplary and frequently far better than watches costing 10x the price, they are nevertheless Horological white goods, most will never be serviced and will just get binned when they start to need on - at best they'll be fitted with a new movement costing less than £30, but most often just binned.
The simple, unavoidable fact is that a Rolex is an investment, taken care of, it's a very safe place to put your money. A San martin never will be.
San Martin watches are excellent, truly excellent for what you pay but in the end, they're a consumable. Rolex, on the other hand are heirloom pieces.
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Certainly won't risk one of the new ones with the questionable movement, particularly as I'd be looking to wear it daily.
Interesting perspective here from the CEO of Rolex, apologies for posting again,
https://fortune.com/europe/2024/04/1...e-investments/
You know what, if you really want to brown your knickers over accuracy - Ive returned 3 AP's to be regulated under warranty as each one of them ran at +20/-20 and 2 of the 3 came back with an 8-10 second deviation.
Not great is it.
My 126200 cal 3235 and doesnt deviate, when I changed it last month it had gained a couple of seconds between clocks back and clocks forward. Thats one of these allegedly dangerous calibres to own and it's the tightest as far as accuracy over time is concerned.
14060M cal 3130 runs at +1 consistently - never been serviced, 2008
16610 cal 3135 serviced a year or so ago drifts at +1 weekly
116250 cal 4130 serviced 2020 iirc gains +2 per day.
16233 cal 3135 serviced 2011 runs at +2 also.
I'm fine with those numbers and I genuinely think that the 31 calibres and the 4130 are exceptional movements for low maintenance accuracy/reliability.
I'm also fine with criticism of the brand so long as it's valid such as the 32xx amp problems and lack of transparency about them and not just pointless squawking from the sidelines about "Rolex wearers".
The "perceived luxury" argument is laughable, particularly when levelling the accusation of emotions over facts.
The "fact" is that nobody lives in a cultural vacuum, icons endure because they trigger an emotional response in consumers and thats why all of these copies / homages or whatever exist in the first place.
When I bought my first with the dodgy movement, about 6 years ago, I wore it daily for a couple of months. I did also wear others for part of the day (some were even from brands that the anti Rolex brigade would regard as “true WIS watches”). I got bored after a couple of months as it had negligible positional variation and had only crept to about +13 seconds cumulatively over the period.
Did the same on a couple of other occasions since. Still as accurate. Other than that I just wear it when it takes my fancy, more often autumn/winter when wearing long sleeves. Keeping the less recognisable Rolex models to wear with short sleeves.
My most recent model with a 32 movement I have only had for a year, so it’s still also happily running to about +1s after a couple of weeks.
Lucky dip I imagine.
Seems a fair enough view to me.
FWVLIW, I think you're wrong on every point.
First you ignore that aside from smartwatches, Rolex make and sell more watches than anyone else - they are a definitively mass-market product.
Concomitantly, they are also a mass-produced product - the human hand plays very little part in the making of each one. Even the noted ease of dismantling of the movements is intended to make assembly easier, and has much less to do with servicing.
People that buy the likes of San Martin are buying the look, it's no more than a fashion statement. We mustn't forget that to the overwhelming majority of people watches are jewellery (which is also another reason why obsessing over timekeeping is a WIS-only thing). No-one's kidding themselves they've bought a Rolex unless they're a bit simple, but you are getting most of the virtues at 1/50th of the price...
Right now - as even C24's own price charts demonstrate - Rolex is not only not meant to be an investment, most models are shedding 'value', and a whole lot of colds are being caught amongst those who thought the bubble would never burst. And with a thoroughly mediocre release of 2024 models and no headline discontinuations, even Rolex themselves are not helping the speculators...
People make the comparison videos - and threads like this - because all the lies and BS around this one particular brand deserve to be called-out. They make those of us that simply enjoy watches and horology look like simpering, halfwitted fools. It's a hunk of jewellery after all, not an 'investment' and not a religious cult.
What you say is broadly true however, over any given 10 year period the "shedding value" you mentioned will even out and the general trend will always be appreciation. We've all done ok on Rolex ownership in my family but then they've been bought for the long term. I've people bought during the massive COVID stay at home driven inflation, then yep, they'll catch a cold, in the short term. Hand on to it and you'll be golden.
It is exactly because of the non-wis buyers that this will invariably be true. When people come in to some money and decide to treat themselves they'll put the money somewhere they know and in the instance of Horological investment it'll go (for many) into one of the strongest brands in the world.
No one has to like it, I personally don't, but it is what it is and I really don't see any point in denying it.
There's been talk of a sketchy lack of transparency and iffy movement iterations but that's not going to stop Joe Soap putting the money he just inherited for his late uncle George into the Sub he's always wanted and this keeps the merry-go-round spinning.
Incidentally, Rolex watches are still built to outlast their owners if taken care of so they are, most definitely, heirloom pieces.
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Casio makes 38 million watches per year.
Seiko makes around 5 million and 50 million movements
Rolex is what, around a million? Two?
People who want fashion brands aren't buying San Martin watches.
The brand is known amongst watch enthusiasts because they produce copies of Swiss brands.
You ask anybody with their nose pressed to a watch shop window if theyve heard of San Martin and the answer will be no.
They don't have a high street presence, they dont have an advertising strategy, they are absolutely unknown outside the nerds and the Mittys.
You know this.
Rolex are decreasing in value, which is exactly the direction that they should be going in post bubble which was unsustainable and driven by stupidity.
Thats what the Ch24 chart shows.
What the Ch24 chart also shows is that the Rolex pre owned market is still over or close to RRP - no radical 50% drops the minute you walk out the showroom door, and you're showing us this like its a negative.
Show the stats for other brands if you want to play compare and contrast.
On the "cult" front, there are people who wear Rolex every day without giving them a second thought, and there are people who spend their lives scouring the web for lookalikes and then performing in depth comparisons in an attempt to convince themselves and their cohorts that their choices are the smart ones. Or turning up on every Rolex thread to take aim at other people for wearing a brand they dont like. Come on.
I would also argue that wearing copies isn't "horology" any more than wearing knock-off Nikes makes you an athlete, and I fail to see how predictably taking an absolute bath on these copies whenever they crop up on SC as soon as the frisson of thinking that you're beating Rolex (or Doxa) at their own game is anything more than simpering halfwittery at its finest.
Honestly, if you like watches, buy a Timex or a Casio or a Russian or something vintage from Ebay, anything else is better imo.
Spot on. As usual.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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