Reply With QuoteIt’s a thinly veiled plea for leniency from the govt. from Ford anyway.
I know the company in Redditch that mould the mini dash, they work on an 18 week fixed scheduleOriginally Posted by Longblackcoat
It’s a thinly veiled plea for leniency from the govt. from Ford anyway.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
I see the Chinese taking most, all of the EV market...don't they have a lock almost on the minerals, battery side plus cheap/ slave labour.
It’s all a bit confusing imho. The list price of my ICE fiesta last year was £27k. Now Dacia are able to release the electric Spring for £15-16k. Surely an electric Fiesta would sell like gangbusters in the uk? - Britains best selling car for years, small enough to park and- you’d imagine - a bit lighter like the Dacia and therefore will travel further on a smaller, therefore cheaper battery with a decent range?
It’s the ford way. Even the Mondeo got replaced by BMW as the fleet darling.
They just can’t get cars right, but at least they don’t get them as wrong as Vauxhall.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
I’ve always slated Vauxhall but they seem to be doing a lot better these days. But then, they are now Citroens and Peugeots!
I agree. I had no idea that the Chinese EV market was so large, around 200 manufacturers at present. This video of the Beijing Auto Show came across my YT timeline and even if you don't have the stamina for the whole thing (I didn't), the number and range of EV's available over there is incredible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSzEVLN4dRQ&t=5s
If even a third of the Chinese output makes it over here, I can't see how the established western brands will be able to compete. I think the only thing likely to keep them in the picture will be import tariffs.
PS. In reference to the previous post, Ford still sell a Mondeo in China (Hybrid I think), you can see it 15:30 into the video above.
I had a fair number of business trips to Shenzhen in 2016-18 and was amazed at how advanced the Chinese economy was with EVs. All of the public transport (buses & taxis) was EV ... way ahead of any Western city. Beijing's not quite at that level but it's getting there.
It's all driven by the fact that probably 20 years back the Chinese government realised that they'd never catch up with ICE manufacturing or (probably) hybrids. So they bet on BEV and now, two decades on, they're reaping the benefits and China produces 2/3 of the world's EVs. Honestly, we do ourselves no favours if we try to denigrate them by saying they're subsidised by the government/slave labour etc. The fact is, the best of the Chinese EVs (Volvo, for example) are exceptionally accomplished and you'd buy them anyway. Drive a BYD Seal (I have) and you'd really like it. The fact that it's £15-20k cheaper than its competition is a plus, obviously. Same with an MG4 - I drove one a few weeks back and was struck at how good it was. Then you compare it to (say) an ID3 and you can't see where all the additional money goes.
The Chinese EVs seem to me to be a lot like Japanese cars of the 80s - dependable, a bit dull, sold on the basis of a long warranty and utter dependability. When China has its Lexus moment we'd better be prepared, because they really will dominate the world if given half a chance. And the only way to stop that is to make a better product.
As I said on the other thread, the German chancellor went to China last month and made it clear there wouldn't be import tariffs. A year or so ago Mercedes announced they would be dropping the models from the cheaper end of the market and going firmly premium. They - like BMW and Audi - sell a decent chunk of cars to China and would be screwed if that market suddenly disappeared.
The Chinese market demands cheap EV SUVs that are large and full of tech. The average Chinese customer rode a bike 20 years ago and has missed out on generations of car ownership. How we test and evaluate cars in Europe is irrelevant to China, a smaller number of massive manufacturers will have the non-premium (see Mercedes, BMW and Audi, for example) and non-luxury market and will flood the market with cars that are rubbish to drive. Not that I've yet driven an SUV that was good to drive but you understand my point. In the non-premium end of the market it's no longer about what we want, it's about which Chinese SUV will be in our price range.
We've gone from dependency on the Middle East and their petrol reserves to dependency on the Chinese and their rather cunning mineral deals and engineering projects of the last 20 years in Africa and South America.
"A man of little significance"
Brand snobbery will win. Although by then there should have been enough European and American brands gone bust for the Chinese to buy. Or clunky going concerns like Lotus. I'm surprised Saab hasn't been bought up yet, there's surely some fun to be had there. Imagine what a Chinese company with some proper clout could do with the Jaguar brand in the same way Volvo has been reinvented as a premium SUV brand.
"A man of little significance"
If they’d put a decent seat in an MG4, and place it far enough back so it could support a 6 foot 2 17 stone TZ member it would be a good start! - I test drove an MG4 next to my current Cupra Born and I was hanging through the seat - couldn’t do more than 10 minutes without backache. Couple that with the weird centre console cutting into my left knee and it was hopeless. Felt like the car equivalent of luxurious Chinese made clothing bearing mad, mid-spelled and non sensical western slogans! - nice try but I can’t actually sit in it (and judging by my son’s friends, 6 foot 2 is the shorter end of the tall spectrum)!
Last edited by RobDad; 8th May 2024 at 17:16.
To me an interesting model is the Ioniq 5N; it seems to be an EV imitating an ICE with its virtual gearbox. Perhaps Hyundai see that to tempt the move to EV drivers want a transition with a vehicle that is is more traditionally "car like"
Whether this is sufficient to tempt buyers only time will tell plus it's £65k ISH so not a cheap runabout
Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk
That tech in a £25k 150hp runabout would be a winner - a fake hot hatch that you could rag the virtual nuts off without breaking many laws.
It’s a bit absurd in what is effectively a 600hp slammed Range Rover Sport though.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
https://youtu.be/bTTMVIhMkkM?si=kJljfX6FveoQHjxD
' it's much worse than I expected. Water just enters the front area (where a lot of electronics are) under the "frunk". They only found out when they noticed the wiper fluid just sprayed around (went everywhere except on the window.... ) The inside is also not painted, because, well, the whole car isn't painted. The mechanic also found loose grounds (see the wire on the lower right of the picture, and when trying to open something with tabs, the tab broke off the second it was touched. This thing will be a nightmare to maintain.'
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
That cyber truck is 5 days old
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
That is truly shocking.
Has anything so crap ever got so much attention? Manna from Heaven for YouTubers, and ammo for anti-Tesla/Musk folk…
We just don’t seem to get the same attention around the latest Toyota RAV4 or similar, funny old world isn’t it.
Even British Leyland made cars with better build quality
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
Possibly/maybe, I just think if you look/tear down anything hard enough you’ll find something wrong with everything. It does a lot of stuff right too.
To avoid doubt, I still think the cyber truck is deeply flawed and crap as a concept and a truck, but if it does end up being the underpinnings of a more conventional and practical truck (that many Americans are in love with), then it could be a positive.
Maybe
Doesn't negate the poor build quality being reported right now though
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
No, it doesn’t, but just as an example I accept multi million £ aircraft into service as part of my job, and they all have faults from brand new.
Doesn’t make it ok, it’s just reality with any complex bit of kit.
Well, there are a lot of owners reporting problems. And the evidence is it's yet another Tesla product with production issues
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
Why are brand new aircrafts sent to you, if it’s not confidential, please?
American car manufacturers are (in)famous for making cars with potentially lethal issues*. Tesla took the EV car world by storm and made a spectacular success combining a good product with a great charging network, which proved a valuable incentive to EV buyers. My neighbour just got a new model 3 through work (her choice of course) so her husband is selling the one they’ve had for 2 or 3 years. Never an issue with it and if I could afford it I would bite his arm off. This to establish that my take is not anti Tesla in itself.
However, beyond the shocking issues in the video above, Tesla is under scrutiny because people have died (take Boeing for similar scrutiny for the same reasons).
* See Ralph Nader’s “Unsafe at any speed”
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I’m not trying to excuse Tesla’s behaviour or shoddy build quality in any area, just to be clear, and I've always had an issue with Tesla calling their driver assistance features ‘autopilot’. In the aviation world we have a saying that ‘autopilot is going to kill you, and you’re going to let it’, same with lots of other systems or even people. If I have an issue with Tesla around any of that, it’s because they’ve pushed such safety aids wrongly, and there are too many people prepared to misuse such systems wrongly or put 100% faith in them.
I think it’s fair to say that new Cyber Truck owners are Beta Testers, just like the Model S, Model X and Model 3 owners before them. Tesla are a ‘fix fast’ outfit, almost treating hardware like software, but I believe they will get to the bottom of the embarrassing issues the new model is having and the product will end up being as solid as the M3 is.
They won’t be able to fix its looks or size though, which is ugly and too big respectively!
… and unable to carry out basic pickup duties, like carrying any sort of load.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The only load a cyber truck carries is ego and that doesn’t need to go in the back.
True!
Also true! :-D
Tesla have serious competition
https://youtu.be/HZczpFsv9ZY?si=icqYWIJaSxO-CP0Q
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
Not vetted
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
Just to give us an idea what we’re talking about.
My friend Don sent me this. And asked me for a proper caption for this pic…
Can't wait for a hill billy to test the supposed bullet proof glass
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
3 metric tonnes. I wouldn’t want to be crashed into by one.
The glass isn’t bullet proof, just the stainless steel bodywork, and then ‘only’ 9mm or so.
https://youtu.be/VLV-4HMrAz0?si=NqVwRWJpfLsDjrAU
You seem to have an obsession with these things, what number is your pre-order? I presume you’re trying to move yourself up the waiting list?! ;-)
Last edited by Tooks; 13th May 2024 at 19:08.
Lol yeah I'll take 2
Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
Posting Permissions
