***Moderators, Please move, edit or delete this post if it has broken any TZ-UK rules at all. And if so, i apologize in advance***
Hi all, It's been a while since i posted here, but I'm hoping you don't miind me reaching out to the TZ-UK community in an attempt to help resolve a serious problem with a watch deal I was involved in...
I have recently, apparently, been royally screwed by a German antique dealer who sells on Ebay...
http://myworld.ebay.com/goldstier
And the worst part was it was for a reeally nice Bundeswehr Blancpain 3h w/ crown at 4:00....
and i need some advice..Please, any advice..
(item # 290336451132)
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...336451132.html
Here's the long and short of it... (more long I'm afraid to say...)
Watch was on Ebay Germany in August... over 250 100% feedbacks for the seller, all comments in German but the few in English were good, (one even mentions that both parties decided to cancel the transaction... a good sign by you would think)
But...No paypal (at least that's what he first told me )
So i win, communicate my instructions in computer translated English (seller only speaks German) send the payment by bank transfer, and wait...
3 weeks later nothing, so i email...I didn't send enough $ for shipping...
so the seller suggests that i send the balance to his paypal account... (???HUH where was paypal when i was sent the money the first time??)
But i need to get the watch, and he has 100% feedback...so what have i got to lose....
3 more weeks, and nothing..... I email... wait a few days, then he claims there was a problem with shipping and the watch was returned to him... Please confirm the shipping address...
so 2 more weeks passes and nothing, no contact, no watch, Forget it...this is all wrong...Negative feedback time....
but wait!! No possibility for negative feedback?????!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fleabay has a new(er) rule that you can only leave feedback for 60 days after the transaction.... It took me a week and a half to finalize the wire transfer, so I passed the 60 day mark....
Now i panic... I email about 30 times in a week, and nothing...
I have a friend, a fellow canadian collector, who is also a member here, who speaks German who begins to help me out...
AhHA!! He Makes Contact!!
The seller claims that after all the problems, with shipping and communication, he was holding on to the watch until something could be figured out... After 3 subsequent weeks of seemingly positive communication back and forth between the seller and my friend (who I have to mention has gone out of his way to be as helpful as anyone has ever been to me)...suddenly nothing,....dead line.....
Now i noticed that after 90 days has passed, the item/auction has been deleted from ebay altogether... no record of the item except for the item number and my passing glimmers of hope...
Soooo.....
Any German members here want to help me out and pay a visit to this guys house?
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Any advice from anyone here re: mail/ email/ internet fraud?
I need to do something, but don't know what at this point.....
Any help/ideas/suggestions would be great
jdbarron2@hotmail.com
Regards, and many continued thanks
John
most here will just say "wait until he says sorry " :? :? :? :? seems ok here !
Unless you can confirm he lives at the address you have for him etc ? then there is nothing you can do. If you do track him down. its less than a days drive and i could Pm you some terrible things you could do to his house and car that will play with his brain for years !!
This is a huge problem as far as i can see, if ebay aren't going to help then you may be left with little evidence apart from the bank transfer and that is going to be down to your word against his. You might want to start speaking to your bank, then speaking to ebay to see if something can be done either way, i doubt the police will even bother getting involved with so little evidence just now.
Sounds like a bugger of a situation but i'm afraid to say that i think you're shafted.
I would be very suprised if you see money or watch. It's easy to say in retrospect but if you could only pay by bank tx you should have walked away....there's just no safety net.
Unless you have a definite address for him i don't really see what you can do.
Im not so sure, if you know where this guy lives and you have an email trail, i would contact the police local to him, get some of the documents translated and fax them to the police, get a local solicitor / lawer to you to draw up a letter as anything offical helps, go to your local police and file a report anway, get a crime report record and fax that. I am sure they will at least pay him a visit which might be enough to get him to send your item.Originally Posted by Argee1977
Of course it might be a duff address or the police will say there is nothing they can do but if you persit you might get somewhere
Thanks Driftwood!
Even though i don't think I'll have the chance to ever use them, I'd still love to know what those terrible things you know how to do are.., it's always good to know just in case ;-)
And in order to send the transfer, i had to have a confirmed address for him... Which ebay also has, which i've even gone so far as to search on google map for, and now have a satellite photo of where he lives.... I Can't, however, see what kind of car, or even if he has one ;-)
cheers
JB
Have you actually called ebay and spoken to someone about it? I had a transaction go south about a year ago on ebay, and I called their customer hotline and had my money back literally within minutes...obviously, this was using paypal, but they may be able to at least offer you some advice or at least contact the seller and perhaps do something about it...
Does being a complete arse come naturally or do you have to work at it?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Thanks for the replies....
Regarding evidence, I've got copies of every single email i ever sent him, and that i received from him, and 95% were through the ebay system....
Even when my friend took over, he was communicating through ebay, so his every communication , including the most recent where he explains that he is still in possession of the watch, and will be sending it Via DHL, which he will then take a picture of the waybill and email it to me before i pay for the extra shipping....
Maybe the fact that my Uncle is a Police officer in Canada, who is former Fraud squad, and is of German descent may help in any communication that might occur with the local police.... :twisted:
Cheers
John
Whats sad here is ebay are a bunch of W@#^%$#s these days, and dont care less.
Try to email them directly, and you cant, least i failed to last time. They give about 15 words on the complaint form now.
As for bank transfer, this is normal in Germany, including German ebay. Most dont use Paypal, and i am guessing they dont want to pay the fee. Bit of a tight bunch.
Sorry you lost your money, but you sound out of luck to me. Personally i wouldnt give up, but its an uphill fight for you
Hmm bad news sorry for your problems
Good advice! Friend of mine had a deal went bad with a german ebayer. He had a german speeking someone file a police report and managed to get his money back. If my memory serves me right, the police actually paid a visit and the seller decided to refund. I don't know any details, but i's a serious fraud and laws are pretty strict in germany. Make sure to keep a copy of every written conversation (preferred) and phonebills to show as an evidence. Also report it to Eb@y as soon as possible, and seek advice from Your bank if anything can be done. If You paid via credit card, call the issuer. I honestly hope You'll see Your money back! Oh, and don't give up...Im not so sure, if you know where this guy lives and you have an email trail, i would contact the police local to him, get some of the documents translated and fax them to the police, get a local solicitor / lawer to you to draw up a letter as anything offical helps, go to your local police and file a report anway, get a crime report record and fax that. I am sure they will at least pay him a visit which might be enough to get him to send your item.
Of course it might be a duff address or the police will say there is nothing they can do but if you persit you might get somewhere
John,
that's certainly a very bad experience - nobody wants to run into such trouble when trading watches, especially with international deals and all that language etc. problems.
I just briefly checked the profile of the seller "goldstier" - no obvious suspicious information. All comments of previous buyers are positive. And, as mentioned before, wire transfer is the usual transaction mode in Germany (and sellers are usually wary of paypal).
With hindsight, a few aspects might look fishy:
- he is registered as "private" seller although he seems to be a professional dealer (inland revenue does not like that, btw...)
- he has a somewhat strange mix of offerings, including very expensive pieces of jewellery that I would not expect to sell on eBay when offered like that
Now, I don't know in detail how the communictaion with him evolved. Maybe it was a straight fraud, maybe he was simply unable to handle an international transaction (reading his product descriptions, his lack of language skills seems plausible). For his eBay registration, his ID was checked - this procedure is usually reliable and in Germany IDs include the place of residence. So, at least eBay should know his correct address - and my guess would be, he did not provide a wrong address (because you are so far away anyway...).
According to his profile, he lives in Neumünster, a city North of Hamburg in the state of Schleswig-Holstein. Like in the US, police is organized statewise. In Schleswig-Holstein, there is a specialized unit for Online fraud. If you want to report him, you can do this online following this link:
https://www.polizei.schleswig-holstein. ... wache.html
by cklicking on "weiter" below the "Onlinestrafanzeige" (Online Complaint) header.
Note: This will be an offical complaint (i.e. like going to the police office) so you should provide full and truthful accounts of your case and avoid any false accusations (as you could be charged yourselve for this). As this is a state police unit, there should be officers able to read and understand English. However, I think you will need assistance from your German-speaking friend with all the formalities (and a German introduction to your case might help as well). The online unit will then check the information and assign it to the local police office that will be in charge for the inquiry. This might take a while, as they are not allowed to communicate with you via email (they have to send letters...).
My advice would be: write a "final warning" to the seller that you are in contact with local police authorities and will officially report him unless he transfers the money back into your account within, say, 10 days.
Maybe that works - if not: see above.
Good luck,
Christian
Hey!
PM me his details. I know a lot of dealers in germany. If he is fairly active I might know someone who knows him.
Morgan
:lol: :lol:Does being a complete arse come naturally or do you have to work at it?
well its very much like what took place here. So let the German say sorry and move on 8) 8)Does being a complete arse come naturally or do you have to work at it?
Maybe we here on TZ could try use 'people power' and all 'contact seller' and leave some bad vibes ..? :twisted: :twisted:
Just checked his feedback and unless he's 'hijacked' it - looks a genuine seller
Am surprised Paypal/Ebay not showing support - threy showed good attitude when I had a purchase in doubt - try calling them here in UK first !
Cheers, Peter
Ebay support line: 0800 358 3229
http://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowCUPortal
Wouldn't you want your money to be refunded as well? A 'sorry' means sod-all if you're out of pocket :roll:well its very much like what took place here. So let the German say sorry and move on 8) 8)Does being a complete arse come naturally or do you have to work at it?
thanks for your ideas driftwood ill be giving them some thought.well its very much like what took place here. So let the German say sorry and move on 8) 8)Does being a complete arse come naturally or do you have to work at it?
I'd get a cheap flight and have a weekend break in Germany...
Can't say where the break the would be...
I imagine that from Canada even a cheap break in Germany will be expensive and inconvenient. There have been two gold plated helpful posts above (suggestions on best way to contact the local police and an offer to check the bona fides of the seller) and I'd guess it would be more productive to follow those up rather than pipe-dream about settling it mano a mano.
Its very easy to spout crap about 'paying him a visit with the boys' etc etc, I would suggest going to the police, afterall he has stolen your money, has he not?
On balance, I would follow the advice of u2112 and the others, and of course, don't give up.
I do hope you get redress.
Best of luck.
Don't write eBay off without giving them a chance - what have you got to lose ?
And if all his communication has been through them, they'll have copies of his mails where he clearly states that he hasn't sent the goods, even after 60 days. They'll also take umbrage at the fact he wouldn't accept PayPal, which I'm assuming he's also stated in his correspondence. They could freeze his account if they saw fit, which wouldn't help you directly, buy would bugger him if he's an active eBay seller.
I have a simple rule with eBay, I never buy unless they accept PayPal, no matter how tempting the bargain. Unfortunately technology these days makes international transactions so easy, we forget the lack or recourse should it all go pear shaped, what with distance, law and language barriers.
Hope it has a happy ending.
Good luck.
It won't help with getting your money but you could open a new ebay account on a different IP address and bid and 'win' everything he sells from now on.
I hope this works out somehow for you. I do know (through family living out there) that the German police are extremely efficient - although I'm not sure hoe effiecient they are with no citizens.
Good luck.
Jon
Well It appears that mr Goldstier is looking more and more like a crook....
First off, i want to thank all of you here who have helped me with their excellent suggestions and their helpful words of encouragement.
Secondly, I was contacted by a fellow collector, who is also German, and who also was a bidder on the watch I won (the 3rd highest), and he has graciously forwarded emails from the ebay seller Goldstier , Mr Muhammet Annuschat, in which mr Muhammet Annuschat proceeds to offer the other collector one of 4 other Bund Bps he apparently owns....
and this was done shortly after i paid for my watch.....
This is really starting to look like a full blown case of theft/ fraud... and now it's time to involve the German authorities.....
I thank everyone here for their help in this matter...without a community like this, i don't know what i would have done!!
This is why i don't totally lose faith in this hobby after an experience like this!!
Kindest regards, with the greatest of respect!!
JOhn
You could wait till he is selling something, place a random bid, as soon as you do that, you have the power to 'request contact information'. Which means that you can request his details (go the help section for this), and confirm the address you have got with the one he is registering on eBay. If they both match 'its all good in the hood'! fly/drive over, knock on his door and bend him over.
Ibby
p.s before you request his, make sure you alter your own details as your details are sent to him also.
Thanks for the suggestion ibby,
I actually contacted ebay, and requeste the contact info... Apparently there are German privacy laws that prevent ebay Germany from providing persoanl info to anyone outside the country...
If there are any German members here who can help me out, he actually does have something currently up for auction... a Vintage Montblanc pen apparently worth 10.000 euro.....
Wouldn't wnt to be the winner who has to send that wire transfer!!!
If anyone is willing to help out, please PM or email me....
Kindest rgds
JOhn
I'm pretty sure we have a forum-member on here that's from Hamburg, maybe you could ask him if he could pay the the guy a visit.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
