Well, I'm considering purchasing a used Porsche 911.
I know some of the guys on here run them, but for me it will be a once in a lifetime purchase and definitely a oneoff. I'm not that well off - but I've always wanted one since i was a lad, and at 41 now and with my circumstances making it a possibility I am definitely considering it.
I've even looked at insurance quotes and £500 fully comp seems reasonable..
So my question is this..
Am i destined for trouble buying a 10-12 year old 996 ?
Or worse a 12-16 year old 993 ?
Are there things i should avoid (tiptronic or 4wd for example) is the targa or carrera the best option.. etc etc..
Anyone who knows a bit about it, is welcome to reply and help me out with my quandary..
All help/advice very much appreciated..
what budget to you have ?
Is it a daily driver or weekend toy?
Which 911 poster did you have on your bedroom wall as a kid ?
If you want the 911 experience & have dreamt of them since a kid, go for the aircooled cars .... IMHO, don't bother with a 996. Still depreciating, potentially expensive to maintain ( RMS issues & more electronics than earlier cars ) , but more importantly a more diluted driving experience.
If you are on a lower budget ( less than £15K) do look at 964's & 3.2's.
Check out on here for many threads giving good advice.
Although the purchase price and insurance can be quite reasonable there are still servicing costs which even at Indy specialists can relieve you of £2k pa if nothing major goes wrong.
Having said that it's definitely worth it imho!!
Good luck.
Cheers,
Nigel
I love mine!
would be happy using it everyday but fortunate to have other vehicles so keep the mileage low- has only 23k now.
insurance as you have found, large service 405 quid at a top independent, 25mpg easy,and imho a great drive. mines 4wd and some traditionalists dont like that, but for me,I love the surefootedness and I dont kid myself that I'm a driving god 8) I wasn't about to pay the money a REALLY nice 993 cost.when I took advice (and it took 5 months to find mine)a dealer summed it up by pointing out that Porsche don't have the reputation for the best sportscars in the world by building crappier ones as the years go by. 2 or 3 quite good magazines at wh smiths each month
Take your time and buy a mint one,avoiding weird colour combinations ,cant go wrong with any of them, I reckon.
Best idea is to check out sites like pistonheads or 911uk, have a look at the Porsche forums and run a search on 996 engine problems. You'll find a fair bit of debate on the reliability of the early water cooled engines. Early 996's can seem like a bargain but any major engine problems can be very expensive. Best option for a lifetime purchase might be a classic 993 with all the big repairs already done by someone else and little or no depreciation left.
regards,
Grant
You should get one like James May's that he's been driving around in his new program. Red 964 I think but probably not because I'm not hugely up on 911s
his is a very nice 3.2 carrera ... off the top of my head I can't remember the year, but possibly an '88 / 89 ?Originally Posted by Parabola
3.2's are a very good place to put your money. Fast & exciting to drive + the last of the real Porsche 911's ( torsion bar suspension ) . Built like tanks & easy to maintain if you're a competent DIY'er. No depriciation, in fact good ones are now going up in value. Main thing to look for is RUST .
http://www.impactbumpers.com is the place for advice
If you really MUST buy a Porshe, the at least have the decency to drive a 914 or a 356! :evil:
Even a Chesil or Dax replica.
There... Budget, Depreciation & massive servicing bills sorted! :)
Mike.
I'm no expert, but I'd go for the 993, especially the "S" version, with the turbo body, brakes, 2wd and strictly manual tranny. Tiptronc is pointless for me and 4wd variants seem to understeer more. 993s are the last "true", old world 911s for me and they seem to hold their value well and mechanically sound. If it's too steep, than a 964 would be my second choice. These were in my walls as a kid (mostly 964s)...
Had experience of (930) 911SC, magical, back to basics feel, light in comparison to 993/996 and a lovely noise to boot.
Also had (964) Carrera 2, a more modern planted car with air con and better soundproofing. Still does the business in getting from A to B quickly.
Make sure whichever one you get, do the research and get a feel of the model you want.
Boring and time consuming I know but will ensure you don`t get a lemon.
You will enjoy owning one. 8)
Get a 968!
No depreciation, some great cars on the market at the moment. Fantastic handling which rewards good drivers.
1/3- 1/2 the price of a 933 or a good 964.
Get a 968 Sport, join a very exclusive club, only 304 built.
I'm slightly biased, but try a couple before you spend your money.
Cheers
Peter
I am biased as well, having owned 944 968's together now for almost a decade. Still though neither are anything like an old torsion bar 911. I haven't owned any 911 but I have been out in a few and got hooked. For me to get the authentic experience at a reasonable cost it would be a hunt to find a rust free carrera 3.2.
:lol: :lol: If you find more than one, let me know....
Cheers
Peter
This coming january i'd have had my old 911 carrera for ten years. I'd imagine it's worth what i paid for it so they work out better value than a BMW/merc . And more fun.
Insurance is literally peanuts with a classic policy.
if i had to choose between a 993 and a 996 i'd pick a 993.
Buy an Mercedes CL55 AMG instead!
Get a TVR...
^^^^ Both so wrong.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
For me, it has to be the Porsche, been dreaming for 25 years.. the TVR and AMG are surely great cars, but not "what the doctor ordered"
i agree - i'd take the porsche over a TVR (although i'd love one as a plaything). and the AMG just doesn't do it for me.
I was in the same boat as you a couple of years ago, I really wanted to own a 911 by the time I was 30 so I took the plunge and bought a 54 plate C4s...............
I have to say it was the worse thing I ever did car wise
The depreciation I was hit with was huge! I will admit that I bought at the peak of the credit boom, and sold it in the middle of the recession, but there are other points to consider with them also. Luckily I paid cash for it and had no finance, but the depreciation still didn't sit well with me, and the only save in grace was the fact that the all cars that I was interested in at the time were hit just as hard.
I bought from an OPC (Official Porsche Center) for piece of mind and had nothing but trouble, but to be fair they ended up doing near £10k's worth of warranty work in the 12 months I had it.
The reception I had off people when I went shopping, filled up with petrol etc was very strange. Some people would just come up to me and start jabbering about the car in a good way, some people would stick the V's up at me and call me a wanker just because I drove a "supercar"! This could be because I live in a small minded area, but it is not a nice experience and I am quite thick skinned............
All in all what was meant to be a dream purchase turned out to be a bit of a nightmare, and it is not a marque I would buy into again. Depending on your budget I also think the 996 is a very dated looking car, unless you are buying a wide body variant or a GT3 :D The car is a bit long in the tooth, the interior is drab and the ride is pretty poor. If a Carrera 2 is one you are looking at have you thought about a 993? I know it is an older car again but it is a classic, will not depreciate as much and is stunning with the turbo arches even if the interior is a bit naff :D
If it is a scratch you really want to itch do it, you only live once, but IMHO I would opt for something else :)
I sold the 911 and bought an E60 M5, its an epic car! It beats the 911 hands down on everything bar handling, and seats 5 adults comfortably at the same time! We have just had our first child, but in a year or 2 when she is a little older I would love to get a Ferrari, if not only to see what the twats say at the filling station say then :D
The 993 had head issues, mainly because Porsche thought they'd be clever and machine the head and block to mate without a gasket (heaven only knows why). Consequently it caused huge problems with oil leaks and compression loss etc etc.
Eh? My Turbo certainly has had a few issues with leaks, but nothing to do with the head, just cam covers and the pressure sender gasket. Overall the 993 seems to be amongst the more reliable of the breed and plenty of owners have racked up interstellar mileages. The Turbo will also obliterate pretty much every top-end modern sports car in a straight line and has incredible traction, if that's your sort of thing. Not cheap cheap to run, but small depreciation.
I was in a similar position a couple of years ago and had a shortlist of dream cars,i ended up buying a TVR and havent regretted it at all,all the reliability talk is bull and i speak as i find having not had an issue in 2 years.I made the decision to not buy the Porsche from the point of view that i had driven only GT3 and a GT3RS,after those an earlier car wasnt going to cut it on my budget,the other i drove recently was a 4wd Turbo Cabriolet tiptronic,what a disappointment,sports cars should be manual and have decent brakes,quite probably a bad example,but the attitude of other drivers was the worse thing,as mentioned previously,other drivers had a strange attitude a horrible envy.Luckily the TVR doesnt have this effect,the opposite in fact,nothing but smiles and compliments :) ,enjoy the porsche and buy with your heart and a little bit of head,at the end of the day its your dream :)
This envy thing tends to be focused towards the newer cars, certainly never experienced it in the 968, or my 944 S2 for that matter. Need to buy a classic, having said that though I have spent so much time and money fiddling with these things I have come to the conclusion one should only buy a mint low mileage 'perfect' example or spend 6 months and a tonne of money rebuilding it, otherwise its an endless cycle of break/fix/rust replair. TBH I think realistically any car much more then 10 years old that hasn't already had some serious refurb work is going to need it, its just some ppl believe they can buy a cheap 20 yr old Porsche and expect it to be like a new car. If one can afford a 993 you have enough money to get a properly mint 3.2 carrera.
I would go the 993 route (or even 964) instead of a 996. I had a 993 for about a year and actually made a little money on re-selling it, about enough to cover the servicing (which was 1700 quid at JZ Machtech- seems pretty standard). As noted. insuring with a classic car policy is cheap as chips, I think I paid about 350 quid.
This was a couple of years back and if I was buying again (and I have more money nowadays), I would actually opt for a 964. Something about that body shape keeps growing on me, the more retro feel. You only live once and the 911 is the most iconic sportscar ever built. Good luck and enjoy...
Ditto, I have a 94MY 993. I budget about 800 a year for maintenance, it costs about £240 to insure and so far (based on the current market) has lost virtually no money in just over a year and a half.
Just buy right - there are fewer and fewer good ones out there. Hence the residuals.
It's the last of the 'chiselled out of stone' 911s in my opinion. The 996 just does nothing for me but then I'm an air cooled Porsche fan at heart as I also have a 70s 911.
The 996 is standard guise is an ugly motor, but you have to admit that the 996 C4s is a thing of beauty :love10:
[/quote]The 996 is standard guise is an ugly motor, but you have to admit that the 996 C4s is a thing of beauty :love10:
I agree...... and you should see her a*se!
Goat :D
If only the interior was of better build quality................ :wink:
You are talking about the 964 :wink:
I loved my 993, a real drivers car and built to last an eternity, however, for daily use a 996 would be much easier to live with.
Whatever you choose to do you can't really go wrong with a 911, just make sure you get a proper inspection if it's not a reputable dealer car.
Sanjay :)
sorry, I just can't! Only a personal opinion.The 996 is standard guise is an ugly motor, but you have to admit that the 996 C4s is a thing of beauty :love10:
A wide body 993 is pure beauty but the 996 front end styling will always divide opinion.
I actually like the 997 styling and if pushed to go 'modern' then I would go with one.
DUH! Yes, sorry. I did mean the 964, the 993 followed it and had a head gasket.You are talking about the 964 :wink:
Apologies.
I just picked up a 996 C4S a few weeks back and haven't been happier. Like you I had dreamed of owning a 911 since I got one as a scalextric car when I was 4. It's the first second hand car I have owned in a few years but it feels as reliable and well built as my BMW E91 330d daily driver.
My advise would be take the plunge you won't regret it!
come on then, lets compare photos :D
Buy on condition first, and then condition second...... if you are remotely confused, then also think about the condition. You should look at mileage and service history as well, but even with these important things, they can still be in poor condition !
The newer the car the more electronics to go wrong, and more chance of a big bill that cannot be sorted by an independent as easily. They will depreciate more and cost more to insure generally. They will be much easier to live with on a daily basis and feel much like a very fast version of whatever you drive today.
The older the car, the more chance if rust, consumables needing replacing or hidden gremlins, but a £200 full inspection by a top independent can notice most things. They will be insurable as a Classic Car and not depreciate much if at all. They will be noisy and have the ergonomics of a 1930's washing machine, but will also have a more resolved style due to not being fitted with 326 Airbags and Cornflake Packet bumpers.
Did I mention CONDITION !!!
I totally agree with the comment about condition. Buy the absolutely best you can afford. I have a serious soft spot for 964s, even though the are generally less popular, but even I baulked at the potential money pits out there. So when I was ready to sell on my 944 I decided to chop in my BMW as well and buy just one car, having spent £5k on the 944 in two years.
The lesson here is that whatever Porsche you buy will cost you plenty of money to keep on the road and as they get older that will only increase, unless and it's a big unless, you buy one that has literally had everything done on it. If it's going to be your daily driver then I suspect a 996 would cost less than my 944 did to keep sweet. If it's a weekend plaything, I'd be looking at a 964 or a 3.2. The 993s are fab but they are almost twice as much as a 964 and to my mind, that isn't worth it, unless it's a C2s in Vesuvias or whatever that lovely coffee colour is called.
As for the 968, I personally wouldn't bother. Again they are twice as much as the best 944 S2 and they are about 15% more car, and that goes for the CS which these days seems to have developed has a reputation of being a stripped out racer, like a cheap GT3. Read a copy of Performance Car circa 1993 and you'll realise it was just a cost cutting exercise and the weight loss was happy coincidence. Which explains why the vast majority of them have sunroofs.
But don't despair, whichever variant you go for, there wil be gems out there. If it were me and I had my time again I'd have a 996 40th Anniversary, mainly as they are a great spec, and came in fabulous GT Silver. In the end I wanted a warranty though, so bailed and bought another BMW. I'll be back though.
Could always look for one of these.
Rare as hens teeth,this is my old 3.2 Club Sport. Had it for 2 years of completely reliable, depreciation free fun motoring & it never once let me down despite doing plenty of track days.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
That's my next car!!Could always look for one of these.
Rare as hens teeth,this is my old 3.2 Club Sport. Had it for 2 years of completely reliable, depreciation free fun motoring & it never once let me down despite doing plenty of track days.
http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/737007.htm
One for sale......
Cheers
Peter
Love the CS, although I like pretty much all 3.2's...........somehow the style just seems right. More sporty than the older cars, but not as plastic as the newer 964.Could always look for one of these.
Rare as hens teeth,this is my old 3.2 Club Sport. Had it for 2 years of completely reliable, depreciation free fun motoring & it never once let me down despite doing plenty of track days.
my 'proper' 911 .... 1973 2.4S :D
Much more fun to drive than the later cars , & I include the 964, 993's in that statement.
Superb B road blaster + wonderful European tourer
Oh, go on then. Any excuse to post a pic of the 964 :)
What the oldies cost in servicing, they make up for in lack of depreciation. It's not what you'd call refined, but it sure is fun 8)
Here's mine
Me likey very much, these last few pork pictures posts are just the sort of thing I would be looking at. I agree with James about the 968, in many ways having owned one I have very mixed feelings about it compared to a nice 944 S2 or turbo. Basically it is like he says a 944 S2 + 10% in pretty much every department except price where the difference is huge, but it is IMHO the most complete and resolved of all the 4 pot front engined Porsches. Like all these things supply and demand pushes prices up when a car is rare because perversely when it was new it was just far to expensive to sell, and this is what has happened with the 968. ISTR it cost about £45K back in the early 90's, that is a huge amount of money, when the boxster came out it was a bit more then £30K and of course sold like hot cakes.
Oh that 3.2 CS. I bet anyone that had and sold one of these a few years back is feeling a bit sick at what is happening with the value of these things now. I also remember when a 964 RS was 25 grand and ppl said it was to expensive compared to a bogo C2 :lol: .
If I could afford it I would be all over a mk1 GT3 or a latter GT3 RS.
Here's mine
That's my dream car right there. Proper shape, proper trim, proper colour, lovely.
Thats a 930 right ?
I'm still looking - never do anything quickly..
looked at some 930s a 964 and a 993 - even a 996 cab..
Anyone recommend a specialist within 60 miles of Oxford ??
My PM if necessary...
a 930 is a Turbo 'Impact Bumper' ( 1975-1989) The red one in the previous picture is not a turbo ( 930)
if you've been looking at 1974-1989 cars they would have more than likely been a 3.2 carrera's or SC's ( there are others too eg 2.7's, 3.0s etc but these are less common)
a 930 is a turbo model from this era
Oh, go on then. Any excuse to post a pic of the 964 :)
What the oldies cost in servicing, they make up for in lack of depreciation. It's not what you'd call refined, but it sure is fun 8)
:shock: :shock: WOW SEX ON WHEELS
Cheers mate. It is a pretty car :)
Just wish the weather would brighten up a bit so I can use it :roll:
My 993 is up for sale on PH right now.
Though its LHD so may not suit you (though they are far the better car ...)
Hmmm I'm closing on a few... 90% sure will be a 964 and there are a few nice ones about..
Not being mechanically minded, I'm gonna need for it to be inspected, is this something i could trust to the AA or RAC - or should i find a local specialist...
Theres a couple of nice ones on PH
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