My pilot's watch quest - Down to these 3 (updated)

[swedeone3]

Gents...
I have been looking for a Pilots watch (less than $500 USD) and can't seem to find the perfect candidate. Here are the three I have widdles it down to:

1) Speedbird II - My fave but the smallest of the three. $400 USD
2) Archimede Pilot - Very nice overall with a lot of bang for the buck but... only 10mm thick. Like the date function and location. Was hoping for something 11mm+. $275 USD

3) Aristo Pilot - Love the hands on this one and crown. No date though which I actually would like to have. $450 USD
(Scan borrowed from WUS)


Thought and opinions?


Cheers,
Todd

[jo.st]

How about these

Glycine Combat Automatic 40mm


Glycine Combat 4 Automatic 43 mm (available in a variety of colours)


rgds,
/joakim+/

[Bruce]

Don't know if you have tried here

http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/index.htm

[rfrazier]

I got an O&W Ocean Master (Unitas 6497), and had Jürgen Hauff repaint the dial. Frankly, I don't have a clue what it will look like. My instructions were something like "an aviation dial and hands, with no writing on the dial". It could be anything. Apparently, the hands are sword hands. I'll find out soon, as he informed me this morning that the dial was done. :) Looks like it will come in at a bit over $500 total for the base watch + extra work, however.


Best wishes,
Bob

[Ming Thein]

What about a used Sinn 656?

Ming

[Grath]

Fortis Flieger



List price is $625 but last time I asked http://www.worldlux.com for thier price, I think they quoted me $475. They are an authorized dealer too.

Sorry, I had to borrow the pic. I haven't gotten around to taking one of my own.

[swedeone3]

Thank you gents. Good advice and a few for me to check out! :wink:

Cheers,
Todd

[Herman HKG]

I think the older version of the Fortis Fleiger is superb.

Regards,
H

DELETED

[Ron Jr]

I still recommend the Omega Dynamic Date.

[Ming Thein]

You could get a used Dynamic Chrono within your budget too.

Ming

[worlok]

Not sure if sub seconds @9 is ok.

sapphire crystal, unitas, 40.5mm wide, 11 or 12mm thick, VERY accurate - an even if you don't like the caption Jurgen & Gallai makes the same thing with that brand name on it.

less than US$500 shiiped from Pforzheim, Deutschland. :-)







next to a 44mm IWI



Decorated movt





I really like this 44mmx11.7mm Aristo but it's over $500



I happen to love the Zeno's as well, but would like them better if they came with sapphire and decorated movts.

[Crusader]

Not sure if sub seconds @9 is ok.

sapphire crystal, unitas, 40.5mm wide, 11 or 12mm thick, VERY accurate - an even if you don't like the caption Jurgen & Gallai makes the same thing with that brand name on it.

less than US$500 shiiped from Pforzheim, Deutschland. :-)

I think the font, the sub-seconds, the script, the crown all combine for a great homage of a WWI watch. :D

[Tinker]

3) Zeno line - Can't get past the plane thing. :roll:
Cheers,
Todd

I would have bought several Zenos had it not been for the dreadful watch logo.

The first and only Zeno I have had was a titanium cased Unitas. It was an excellent watch in every regard, except that silly and irrelevant plane on the dial.

Eddie! Do you have enough clout to persuade them to drop it? Or at least to offer dials without it?

[Crusader]

3) Zeno line - Can't get past the plane thing. :roll:
Cheers,
Todd

I would have bought several Zenos had it not been for the dreadful watch logo.

The first and only Zeno I have had was a titanium cased Unitas. It was an excellent watch in every regard, except that silly and irrelevant plane on the dial.

Eddie! Do you have enough clout to persuade them to drop it? Or at least to offer dials without it?

There are a few Zeno models without the dreaded airplane, like the Zeno Explorer and the Canteen Watch.

[JP (Europe)]

So this 42mm (including crown) O&W is out?



Picture borrowed and no connection to seller.

JP

[Pavel]

What about Stowa Airman? It's more than $500, but not that much more. And it's a very good brand with perfect design.

[Dave E]

Not sure if sub seconds @9 is ok.

sapphire crystal, unitas, 40.5mm wide, 11 or 12mm thick, VERY accurate - an even if you don't like the caption Jurgen & Gallai makes the same thing with that brand name on it.

less than US$500 shiiped from Pforzheim, Deutschland. :-)








Decorated movt

Might be being dumb, but I can't read the script on the dial; what is this? (Looks good!)

[Crusader]

Dave, it reads "Eigentum der Fliegertruppen" (aviation corps property).

Some German WWI watches were marked that way.

[Dave E]

Dave, it reads "Eigentum der Fliegertruppen" (aviation corps property).

Some German WWI watches were marked that way.

Aaahhh, I thought it was a manufacturer name. Interesting.

Mind you, who is the manufacturer on that one?

[abraxas]

He is not making it easy ... is he? :twisted:

john

[Crusader]

The manufacturer is Jürgen Hauff of Germany ... otherwise known for "Jürgen's" pilot straps and high-quality repair/restoration/redial work.

Check out http://www.s-parts.biz, but you better mail Jürgen if you are interested in his watches. He's better with e-mail than with website design.

[Dave E]

The manufacturer is Jürgen Hauff of Germany ... otherwise known for "Jürgen's" pilot straps and high-quality repair/restoration/redial work.

Check out http://www.s-parts.biz, but you better mail Jürgen if you are interested in his watches. He's better with e-mail than with website design.

Thanks! (Hope my post didn't come across snarky - wasn't meant to be!) Don't know what it is about it, but I really like the look of that... mind you, having only recently got a Speedbird II and a PRS-53 I don't have any cash :?

[worlok]

Might be being dumb, but I can't read the script on the dial; what is this? (Looks good!)

Here is another one that is easier to read:



Mind you it's more of a commemorative since in WW1 they mostly wore pocket watches and the real Eigentum Der Fliegertruppen were upside down pocket watches hung on the cockpit of the WW1 biplanes.

Here is a real one:



And these are the guys who used them I imagine:



The Red Baron, Rittmeister Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen :





Cheers!

[adrian]

The manufacturer is Jürgen Hauff of Germany ... otherwise known for "Jürgen's" pilot straps and high-quality repair/restoration/redial work.

Check out http://www.s-parts.biz, but you better mail Jürgen if you are interested in his watches. He's better with e-mail than with website design.

Thanks! (Hope my post didn't come across snarky - wasn't meant to be!) Don't know what it is about it, but I really like the look of that... mind you, having only recently got a Speedbird II and a PRS-53 I don't have any cash :?

http://www.watchnet.com/forums/tradingp ... ead=170940

[JasonH]

Those Unitas 6497's are the best looking and most appealing modern movement for the price IMO! Hmmm, I'd decided I wouldnt be buying anymore new watches :roll:

Jason

[swanbourne]

Even with the poor exchange rate at the moment, the Richmond Spencer is still cheaper and has sapphire crystal, decorated Unitas 6498, etc.

Eddie

[abraxas]

I feel the Incursore offers an interesting rendition of the ETA 649x ... somewhere
between a Panerai and an Aviator with 200m WR and a bracelet option.
http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/B54_Gly_Inc_D1.JPG
http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/B58_Gly_Inc_200_4.JPG

john

[worlok]

I feel the Incursore offers an interesting rendition of the ETA 649x ... somewhere
between a Panerai and an Aviator with 200m WR and a bracelet option.
http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/B54_Gly_Inc_D1.JPG
http://www.chronomaster.co.uk/B58_Gly_Inc_200_4.JPG

john

The Glycines are VERY interesting but the use of MINERAL crystal on their watches kills it for me. The Incursore uses mineral, no?

[abraxas]

The Glycines are VERY interesting but the use of MINERAL crystal on their watches kills it for me. The Incursore uses mineral, no?

* This is an e-mail I received from Glycine speaking to my inquiry as to the K1 Mineral Glass supplied on this watch:

"Dear Mark,

Thank you for being so interested in Glycine watches, and congratulations for having aquired an OBSERVER which, we too, consider to be an outstanding model of our range.

K 1 glasses are a speciality of our glass supplier; it is an improved quality of the regular mineral glasses, and it is about 120 degrees Vickers harder than a normal mineral glass. - on the other hand, he does not tell us HOW this higher degree of hardness as well as the higher resistance to compressive stress is obtained. We accept his non-information and appreciate this most satisfactory quality and the higher costs that goes with it.

Thank you for your compliments, we try hard to offer more attractive
watches to our customers in 25 countries.

Best Regards

Glycine Watch SA

Hans Brechbühler"
http://www.pmwf.com/cgi-bin/ForumArchiv ... ead=384253

john

[Crusader]

Sounds like hardened mineral to mee ... I haven't been able to scratch one of those yet.

The plus side is that they are supposed to be less reflective than sapphire.

[RAF]

Hello,

If you are on the market for a pilot style watch,do yourself a favor, check
the new 40 mm pilot from MKII. Saphire,high grade ETA,no stupid logo or
brand name,with or without date,choice of 2 classic dial and hands,no ugly green lume,and still below 500 USD shipped.And to top it all the quality and good reputation of Mr Bill Yao.


Best
RAF

[swedeone3]

Hello,

If you are on the market for a pilot style watch,do yourself a favor, check
the new 40 mm pilot from MKII. Saphire,high grade ETA,no stupid logo or
brand name,with or without date,choice of 2 classic dial and hands,no ugly green lume,and still below 500 USD shipped.And to top it all the quality and good reputation of Mr Bill Yao.


Best
RAF

Already done. I have owned 2 watches from Bill and his work is outstanding. I am considering... but still leaning towards Eddie's SBII.

Cheers,
Todd

[Tinker]

Am I the only one who finds the modern recreation of German (and Italian) WWI and WWII watches distasteful? After all, they were part of the equipment used to kill Allied service men and women.

[worlok]

Am I the only one who finds the modern recreation of German (and Italian) WWI and WWII watches distasteful? After all, they were part of the equipment used to kill Allied service men and women.

there is a respect for well built equipment and worthy adversaries.

The British, I believe, gave the Red Baron a military funeral even though he was an enemy and shot down by the Allies.

There is a lot of respect for Rommel, for example. (Desert Fox)


...and let me add this funny quote about the movie, Patton. I have no idea if Patton said this in real life however.

At a memorable moment in the movie Patton, George C. Scott as the General crows as his tactics foil the North Africa strategy of Rommel, the German "Desert Fox."

"Rommel, you magnificent bastard," he shouts, "I read your book!" For Rommel had published his innovations in the art of war, and Patton, a keen student of military history, possessed the ultimate advantage: he knew his opponents mind. Rommel was defeated before the engagement had begun.

[Gert]

Am I the only one who finds the modern recreation of German (and Italian) WWI and WWII watches distasteful? After all, they were part of the equipment used to kill Allied service men and women.

I can relate to the sentiment. I was a little uncomfortable with the earlier discussions regarding a homage to the Harris marine chronometer. That?s just the kind of equipment Horatio Nelson might have used whilst destroying 30% of the houses in my home town Copenhagen in 1807. But even though there was neither a declaration of war, nor any regard for civilian casualties during this outrageous act of war, I have to admit that 18. and 19. century Royal Navy marine chronometers are of considerable horological interest. :wink:

Letting bygones be bygones,

Gert

[Gert]

...that said, I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would want this Vixa Me-109 watch :x I wonder how many they sold? And to whom?



Gert

[Crusader]

...that said, I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would want this Vixa Me-109 watch :x I wonder how many they sold? And to whom?

The Vixa watch makes gratuitous use of WWII/Nazi symbolism to make the watch "shocking" and to get it talked about (see, it works :wink: ).

I belive this is a different kettle of fish from the homages/replicas/recreations of genuine WWII-era watches like the B-Uhren, or the Hanhart chronographs.

Having said that, I have always shied away from the B-Uhren replica, it would feel awkward in light of the tragedy visited upon so many human beings by Germany during the period. But I am sure, on the other hand, that many people in the "colonies" (old and new) would resent British and American mil.watches for similar reasons.

In fact, personally I feel extremely uneasy with the hardcore mil.watch crown which will hold a Breitling issued by Saddam Hussein's forces ("issued, ah!") in higher esteem than my replica Traser/H3 P6500. :?

So my conclusion is that from a WIS point of view, the horological interest should have the first consideration, and anything else will be a matter of personal taste. Public enforcement of one's taste upon others is better avoided. Again, the Vixa is different as it is meant to be provocative.

[Grath]

...that said, I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would want this Vixa Me-109 watch :x I wonder how many they sold? And to whom?



Gert

I thought that was the Iron Cross, a symbol of the German Armed Forces and not a symbol of the Nazi party. Am I wrong?

[Crusader]

I thought that was the Iron Cross, a symbol of the German Armed Forces and not a symbol of the Nazi party. Am I wrong?

Technically yes, but the armed forces carried out Nazi policy, hence I can understand that people see a connection there. BTW, the straight lugs of the cross are distinctive of the Nazi-era armed forces; both before and after the period a different pattern of cross (with flared ends) was and still is in use by the German armed forces:

[docd]

I thought that was the Iron Cross, a symbol of the German Armed Forces and not a symbol of the Nazi party. Am I wrong?

Technically yes, but the armed forces carried out Nazi policy, hence I can understand that people see a connection there. BTW, the straight lugs of the cross are distinctive of the Nazi-era armed forces; both before and after the period a different pattern of cross (with flared ends) was and still is in use by the German armed forces:

I'm not keen on the 'square' cross for the obvious reasons, the flared end version seems okay - just my tuppence worth :roll:

[abraxas]

Personally, I am totally fascinated by (military) equipment (including watches). I like to see how the human mind (always influenced by culture etc, etc) resolves the various given horological parameters.

We mustn?t forget that during times of war, a supplier probably provisions both sides. And anyway, using the enemy?s equipment against him is all part of the play.

If N.Korea produced some kind of helio-tropic watch ... I?d probably want one.

john

[JML]

These are by Thomas Gref.

[worlok]

...that said, I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would want this Vixa Me-109 watch :x I wonder how many they sold? And to whom?


Gert

To Neo Nazis?

But seriously, I mainly consider the "other" symbol the true Nazi symbol.

FWIW I have a solingen Nazi letter opener which came into my ownership quite by accident and I don't destroy it. It is a historical relic.

[Crusader]

We mustn?t forget that during times of war, a supplier probably provisions both sides. And anyway, using the enemy?s equipment against him is all part of the play.

I believe during WWII, the German Dienstuhr Heer and the British ATPs were largely identical (and produced by the same companies in Switzerland), though differently labeled.

[endure]

...that said, I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would want this Vixa Me-109 watch :x I wonder how many they sold? And to whom?


Gert

To Neo Nazis?

But seriously, I mainly consider the "other" symbol the true Nazi symbol.

Do you mean the swastika? It wasn't a Nazi symbol for the 3000 years before the Nazis came along and besmirched it. The American 45th Infantry Division wore a swastika on their left shoulder until they replaced it with the Thunderbird in 1939.

[worlok]

...that said, I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would want this Vixa Me-109 watch :x I wonder how many they sold? And to whom?


Gert

To Neo Nazis?

But seriously, I mainly consider the "other" symbol the true Nazi symbol.

Do you mean the swastika? It wasn't a Nazi symbol for the 3000 years before the Nazis came along and besmirched it. The American 45th Infantry Division wore a swastika on their left shoulder until they replaced it with the Thunderbird in 1939.

Yes, that is the symbol I meant and I do know that it was a benign symbol until the Nazis ruined it, but ruined it they did.

Perhaps in a few hundred years the swastika will finally wash off the last vestiges of Nazi affiliation.

[endure]

It's still very widely used as a symbol of good luck across India.

[abraxas]

It's still very widely used as a symbol of good luck across India.

And it is widely considered to be a symbol of bad luck round here. In fact, to most, it is total anathema. :evil:

john

[endure]

It's still very widely used as a symbol of good luck across India.

And it is widely considered to be a symbol of bad luck round here. In fact, to most, it is total anathema. :evil:

john

Which just goes to show that people tend to invest too much emotion into inanimate symbols. :twisted: