After my recent blogging about the SBS Seamaster GMT, somebody contacted me through the blog with this:
I'd never seen or heard of this variation at all, but I'm fairly convinced it's legit. Not only does they type and caseback "display" sapphire back approach match, but I just can't think a counterfeiter would set out to fake an obscure "Communicator" variant like this. I'd heard rumor of an SAS 2254.50 a few years back but thought they were baloney. As well, all the other outward indicators would seem to indicate that it's a genuine Seamaster at least.
Anyone have any more info?
http://watches.ryanrooney.com/blog/2...sional-225450/
Really interesting stuff Ryan. Have you gotten to the bottom of whether these are issued time pieces or prizes/presents. I really can't see the MOD issuing these willy nilly, even if it is for the 'Regiment'.
Mcnab & Ryan C, mention Trasers, G-Shocks even baby G's in there books, can't really see them going on a tab with a SMP on their wrist! :lol:
Still keeps the whole mystic thing about the special services alive!!
Paul
Yeah They are mass produced by a Mr Walter Mitty, Nr Stirling Lines, Hereford. Complete and utter load of shite unassociated with any SF except maybe some bloke who joined the TA side as a chef or driver or more likely a signaller.Originally Posted by Rrryan
After my recent blogging about the SBS Seamaster GMT, somebody contacted me through the blog with this:
I'd never seen or heard of this variation at all, but I'm fairly convinced it's legit. Not only does they type and caseback "display" sapphire back approach match, but I just can't think a counterfeiter would set out to fake an obscure "Communicator" variant like this. I'd heard rumor of an SAS 2254.50 a few years back but thought they were baloney. As well, all the other outward indicators would seem to indicate that it's a genuine Seamaster at least.
Anyone have any more info?
http://watches.ryanrooney.com/blog/2...sional-225450/
RIAC
None of these are issued -- I didn't think there had ever been any question about that. My presumption is that these are all privately purchased and owned, perhaps under a program like the X-33 Military Pilot Program: http://watches.ryanrooney.com/omega/X-3 ... l#military
Some commenters who came to me thru the blog have indicated these typically are just worn in camp and while off duty. They're basically just keepsake commemoratives with closed availability, and not "issue" at all in a strict sense.
Yes and no.
Yes, it was pretty clearly produced for a signaller. Hence the Royal Corps of Signals colors and the "communicator." ;)
No, I really don't think they're fakes or Walter Mitty Special Editions. The SBS variants were reportedly arranged through CS Bedford's in Ruislip. I don't know about the SAS but I presume it's a similar arrangement under which the casebacks were made by Bienne in the same manner the Speedmaster Special Editions are made, if for no other reason that printing on the inverse side of the sapphire isn't too easy to do at home.
And it's not like this one was even being flogged on eBay for 20K quid either.
The signals connection could be from 264 (SAS) Signals Squadron, not directly SAS ??
Interesting. I'm ex-R-Sigs, (no sniggering at the back), and wonder if this has more to do with the Royal Corps of Signals.
264 (SAS) Signals Squadron are a smallish gang of lads who are badged as Siggys but are aligned to the SAS. They wear an SAS beret with an R-Sigs badge.
Although these chaps haven't done SAS selection, they do undergo a selection of sorts, they are then deemed as having passed as a "Special Forces Communicator". (see back of the watch).
Wouldn't like to say anything in relation to the provenance of the watch, but I think it'll be much more likely to be Siggy based than "badged" SAS.
Rich
Edit: David beat me to it!
Could you imagine it, a Regiment WIS meet in Afghan, X "Look at my badged Omega", Y "Yeah nice, but look at my badged Breitling, much harder" Z "F*ck the pair of you, can't believe you did n't notice my badged Graham oversized chronofighter, clearly hard as f*ck and doubles as a mess tin if you whip the guts out". Seriously Can't believe anyone from SF Comm's (TA), 63 etc, would have anything to do with this, and I know no one from 264 would touch it (They prefer ladies underwear), and thats clearly who it is aimed at as an SF Communicator logo.Yeah They are mass produced by a Mr Walter Mitty, Nr Stirling Lines, Hereford. Complete and utter load of shite unassociated with any SF except maybe some bloke who joined the TA side as a chef or driver or more likely a signaller.After my recent blogging about the SBS Seamaster GMT, somebody contacted me through the blog with this:
I'd never seen or heard of this variation at all, but I'm fairly convinced it's legit. Not only does they type and caseback "display" sapphire back approach match, but I just can't think a counterfeiter would set out to fake an obscure "Communicator" variant like this. I'd heard rumor of an SAS 2254.50 a few years back but thought they were baloney. As well, all the other outward indicators would seem to indicate that it's a genuine Seamaster at least.
Anyone have any more info?
http://watches.ryanrooney.com/blog/2...sional-225450/
Would look good in PVD though cos then it would be proper tactical :twisted: , true Walt heaven .
Rant over, and out.
Crouchy
The 264 guys do exist and are R Sigs, some are TA some are regs and i am sure that you would not like to do some of the jobs they do. some of them do have a loverly location to work from day to day. Not far from a nice sand beach, stately home/officers mess close by, quite secure and oftern used by the bouys from poole to train on.
Now the question is would they commission a case back, and the Bouys from pool as well, well i would but i dont know if they would!
Now you may not think that some one would buy the watch, but you may be supprised what you can buy
Have look here http://www.daves-emporium.co.uk/index1.html
sent a P.M. regards this RyanAfter my recent blogging about the SBS Seamaster GMT, somebody contacted me through the blog with this:
I'd never seen or heard of this variation at all, but I'm fairly convinced it's legit. Not only does they type and caseback "display" sapphire back approach match, but I just can't think a counterfeiter would set out to fake an obscure "Communicator" variant like this. I'd heard rumor of an SAS 2254.50 a few years back but thought they were baloney. As well, all the other outward indicators would seem to indicate that it's a genuine Seamaster at least.
Anyone have any more info?
http://watches.ryanrooney.com/blog/2...sional-225450/
karl
Hehe. Someone needs to tell 22 SAS to cancel that order for Omega Planet Oceans then. ;)
In all seriousness, I think at least part of the reason all these units are getting these now is the lure of the "investment" potential, after the prices of the 5513/5517s in recent years and especially highly publicized auction of the Rolex Milsub last summer (~150k quid or something like that?). I think many are thinking of (perhaps over-optimistically) the potential for enormous returns on their initial investment cost. And perhaps that's why the SBS one that's up on eBay has the seemingly irrational 20k BIN figure.
Omega has been making custom casebacks for military units for the X-33 since its release, and the minimum order is only 15 for a custom design. Doesn't seem much of a stretch to extend into Seamasters, especially for the marketing opportunity presented by selling them to elite units.
I think you're quite possibly right on the mark here - anything that is official military and esp. SF will be valuable to collectors.
Didn't realise Omega were offering a bespoke custom service, i know Breitling do it a lot. I'll get some pics of this SRR Seawolf i've got first chance i get, quite an interesting one :)
I can 100% guarantee you that the military do not procure/issue/have anything to do with/make these!
But if you want to spend your money on a dream/myth and it makes you happy, crack on.
RIAC
Sorry but i don't agree with that - i've seen several USN Navy Breitlings that were ordered by a flight crew to commemorate a specific squadron or tour, don't see why this isn't entirely feasible here. NOT officially issued by any means, but certainly sanctioned by genuine servicemen. :?
Sorry but i don't agree with that - i've seen several USN Navy Breitlings that were ordered by a flight crew to commemorate a specific squadron or tour, don't see why this isn't entirely feasible here. NOT officially issued by any means, but certainly sanctioned by genuine servicemen. :?
The MoD do not order expensive watches, they order basic G10 watches for most and Suunto watches for divers, that's it, no Omega, no Rolex and no Breitlings. If you have access you can do a full check up of all watches that are MoD issued by checking ISIS, it's a simple two minute process that gives you a list of pretty cheap watches.
These Omegas may well have been bought by UKSF or members of a support unit, but not through the MoD, and they don't have anything near the history of the Mil Subs, they were issued and used in anger, these watches are left at home and they use G-Shocks, Suuntos, etc instead.
I think you're arguing at tangents to one another here!Sorry but i don't agree with that - i've seen several USN Navy Breitlings that were ordered by a flight crew to commemorate a specific squadron or tour, don't see why this isn't entirely feasible here. NOT officially issued by any means, but certainly sanctioned by genuine servicemen. :?
As I read 100thmonkey, he means "the military" as "the armed forces as an organisation, their official procurement channels". Items acquired through this route belong to the military, not the individual.
GraniteQuarry, you seem to be talking about "the military" as "individual members of the armed forces, acting as individuals or small groups". Items acquired like this are personal property, not that of the armed forces.
I'm prepared to believe both statements. I very much doubt these watches were ordered by the MoD to officially issue to unit members. I could believe that individual unit members (or the unit itself, acting locally and unofficially) acquired these watches as personal items.
As an example, my Tutima NATO was bought from a board member here who is ex-Army. He owned and wore it while a serving officer, and indeed when he was on duty. In some sense this makes it a military watch, but it obviously isn't issued and therefore of limited interest to the military watch collector.
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
I'm not sure how my prose has continued to fail me here, but apparently I'm still not coming across right: I think we are in riotous agreement here. These are not government issue pieces by any stretch, but privately purchased and owned (and sold!) by the servicemember out of their pay as a souvenir commemorative special edition made available exclusively to them. No more, no less.
Well, I won't be purchasing any at these prices. Though they might be more valuable with time and once the market is more fully aware of them, as I've said right now I think their value is probably not too far off regular MSRP regardless of rarity/exclusivity.But if you want to spend your money on a dream/myth and it makes you happy, crack on.
I wore a privately owned Suunto during nonsense in Iraq and in various places, but I've been looking for a nice G-10 with some well-earned wabi. £37 doesn't sound all that bad… ;)Hey for all that Ill sell you my G10, it genuinley been to the wars in Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor, Iraq, & Afghanistan! Oh and the falklands (3 times...all after the nonsense of 1982)
£37....Thats about the supply price of it.
Crouchy my man, Tell me what is a "Walt" I've seen the expression a few times over the last week.Could you imagine it, a Regiment WIS meet in Afghan, X "Look at my badged Omega", Y "Yeah nice, but look at my badged Breitling, much harder" Z "F*ck the pair of you, can't believe you did n't notice my badged Graham oversized chronofighter, clearly hard as f*ck and doubles as a mess tin if you whip the guts out". Seriously Can't believe anyone from SF Comm's (TA), 63 etc, would have anything to do with this, and I know no one from 264 would touch it (They prefer ladies underwear), and thats clearly who it is aimed at as an SF Communicator logo.Yeah They are mass produced by a Mr Walter Mitty, Nr Stirling Lines, Hereford. Complete and utter load of shite unassociated with any SF except maybe some bloke who joined the TA side as a chef or driver or more likely a signaller.After my recent blogging about the SBS Seamaster GMT, somebody contacted me through the blog with this:
I'd never seen or heard of this variation at all, but I'm fairly convinced it's legit. Not only does they type and caseback "display" sapphire back approach match, but I just can't think a counterfeiter would set out to fake an obscure "Communicator" variant like this. I'd heard rumor of an SAS 2254.50 a few years back but thought they were baloney. As well, all the other outward indicators would seem to indicate that it's a genuine Seamaster at least.
Anyone have any more info?
http://watches.ryanrooney.com/blog/2...sional-225450/
Would look good in PVD though cos then it would be proper tactical :twisted: , true Walt heaven .
Rant over, and out.
Crouchy
Cheers,
Iain
Walter Mitty - a bloke who fantasizes he's a bigtime hero, often in a military situation :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mitty
another one of these on the bay atm http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 500wt_1163
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Sorry but i don't agree with that - i've seen several USN Navy Breitlings that were ordered by a flight crew to commemorate a specific squadron or tour, don't see why this isn't entirely feasible here. NOT officially issued by any means, but certainly sanctioned by genuine servicemen. :?
i agree david, just had a brit guy join our ship in thailand who is ex brit navy cd, he has one which has the cd badge on the back, it was a group order by the guys, through the navy.
cheers
mike :wink:
Same idea as mikes CD seamaster I would imagineSorry but i don't agree with that - i've seen several USN Navy Breitlings that were ordered by a flight crew to commemorate a specific squadron or tour, don't see why this isn't entirely feasible here. NOT officially issued by any means, but certainly sanctioned by genuine servicemen. :?
i agree david, just had a brit guy join our ship in thailand who is ex brit navy cd, he has one which has the cd badge on the back, it was a group order by the guys, through the navy.
cheers
mike :wink:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=93065
More about Walts... http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/WaltsCrouchy my man, Tell me what is a "Walt" I've seen the expression a few times over the last week.
:roll:
These watches were commissioned by 264 (SAS) Signal Squadron when the Sqn was due to lose it's independant status and become a part of the newly formed 18 (UKSF) Signal Regiment around about 2005.
I know this because I myself am ex-R SIGNALS (before commissioning and joining a different Corps) and have had a number of good friends who have served at 264. One, whom I've known since we both did Phase 1 together, bought 2 of these watches, one which he kept and the other which I believe he gave to his brother. I've never asked whether he was allowed to buy both in his own name or not but I do know that they came with a fourth card confirming it as a special edition in addition to the usual Warranty, Chronometer and Pictogram card. The caseback is of course the 22 SAS 'winged dagger' (actually supposed to be a burning sword originally!), which members of 264 wore on their stable belt buckles, the colours in the background are the R SIGNALS corps colours, light blue, dark blue and green - signifying communications by air, sea and land. The word communicator refers the role obviously, members of the Sqn being known as Special Forces Communicators (SFC) and the additional pay they recieve is also known as SFC pay. 264 Sqn still exists as part of 18 Regt, which although R SIGNALS and thus Army led, is actually a Tri-Service unit, drawing it's numbers from across the UK Armed Forces. 264's role now is still the provision of comms support to 22 itself, another Sqn supports the SBS and has members of the Royal Marines within it, another Sqn is dedicated to the SRR and a fourth Sqn does general UKSF Comms support and other such tasks. In addition, 63(V) is also a part of 18 and provides the same support to 21 and 23 Regts.
I would not expect any member of the Sqn/Regt to wear these watches on Ops!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thanks for the info gav and welcome to the forum.
cheers
mike :wink:
This one is gen, honest guv. :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-ULYSTAR-MILITA ... 3a5129d92e
cheers gav ,bice to have it from the horses mouth, welcome to the forum btw :albino::roll:
These watches were commissioned by 264 (SAS) Signal Squadron when the Sqn was due to lose it's independant status and become a part of the newly formed 18 (UKSF) Signal Regiment around about 2005.
I know this because I myself am ex-R SIGNALS (before commissioning and joining a different Corps) and have had a number of good friends who have served at 264. One, whom I've known since we both did Phase 1 together, bought 2 of these watches, one which he kept and the other which I believe he gave to his brother. I've never asked whether he was allowed to buy both in his own name or not but I do know that they came with a fourth card confirming it as a special edition in addition to the usual Warranty, Chronometer and Pictogram card. The caseback is of course the 22 SAS 'winged dagger' (actually supposed to be a burning sword originally!), which members of 264 wore on their stable belt buckles, the colours in the background are the R SIGNALS corps colours, light blue, dark blue and green - signifying communications by air, sea and land. The word communicator refers the role obviously, members of the Sqn being known as Special Forces Communicators (SFC) and the additional pay they recieve is also known as SFC pay. 264 Sqn still exists as part of 18 Regt, which although R SIGNALS and thus Army led, is actually a Tri-Service unit, drawing it's numbers from across the UK Armed Forces. 264's role now is still the provision of comms support to 22 itself, another Sqn supports the SBS and has members of the Royal Marines within it, another Sqn is dedicated to the SRR and a fourth Sqn does general UKSF Comms support and other such tasks. In addition, 63(V) is also a part of 18 and provides the same support to 21 and 23 Regts.
I would not expect any member of the Sqn/Regt to wear these watches on Ops!
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Indeed, good post... :thumbleft::roll:
These watches were commissioned by 264 (SAS) Signal Squadron when the Sqn was due to lose it's independant status and become a part of the newly formed 18 (UKSF) Signal Regiment around about 2005.
I know this because I myself am ex-R SIGNALS (before commissioning and joining a different Corps) and have had a number of good friends who have served at 264. One, whom I've known since we both did Phase 1 together, bought 2 of these watches, one which he kept and the other which I believe he gave to his brother. I've never asked whether he was allowed to buy both in his own name or not but I do know that they came with a fourth card confirming it as a special edition in addition to the usual Warranty, Chronometer and Pictogram card. The caseback is of course the 22 SAS 'winged dagger' (actually supposed to be a burning sword originally!), which members of 264 wore on their stable belt buckles, the colours in the background are the R SIGNALS corps colours, light blue, dark blue and green - signifying communications by air, sea and land. The word communicator refers the role obviously, members of the Sqn being known as Special Forces Communicators (SFC) and the additional pay they recieve is also known as SFC pay. 264 Sqn still exists as part of 18 Regt, which although R SIGNALS and thus Army led, is actually a Tri-Service unit, drawing it's numbers from across the UK Armed Forces. 264's role now is still the provision of comms support to 22 itself, another Sqn supports the SBS and has members of the Royal Marines within it, another Sqn is dedicated to the SRR and a fourth Sqn does general UKSF Comms support and other such tasks. In addition, 63(V) is also a part of 18 and provides the same support to 21 and 23 Regts.
I would not expect any member of the Sqn/Regt to wear these watches on Ops!
In a similar vein, I was told last night at a Hogmanay bash with some of my old Squadron colleagues that Breitling are to be commissioned by RAF Kinloss to produce a limited edition Nimrod Aerospace. They're available at a significant discount too when ordered through the Squadron apparently... they were a little sketchy on the exact details (subject cropped up well after the bells :drunken: ), but said they'd get me fuller details when they're back at work.
Hi first post and really to add to what GavH has said.
Special Forces Communicator (SFC) watch Omega Seamaster 300 Large
This is a limited edition of 300 watches organised offically but private purchase. Number 001/300 was kept by Omega as I understand they do this will limited editions.
There was a qualifying criteria to purchase a watch as having passed the regular SFC course. Those who have passed the course are Tier 2 Special Forces and support SAS and SBS
At the time (no pun intended) 2007, 264 (SAS) Signal Squadron was indeed becoming part of 18 (UKSF) Signal Regiment
You can read more about the Squadron and Regiment here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_(UKSF)_Signal_Regiment
I hope this goes some way to clearing up this thread.
Last edited by watch264; 11th July 2020 at 23:40.
Nice first post watch264 8)
Shame my 2254 doesn't have as rare a case back, but the Seamaster makes a hell of a forces LE watch - very nice 8)
Hi first post and really to add to what GavH has said.
Special Forces Communicator (SFC) watch Omega Seamaster 300 Large
This is a limited edition of 300 watches organised offically but private purchase. Number 001/300 was kept by Omega as I understand they do this will limited editions.
There was a qualifying criteria to purchase a watch as having passed the regular SFC course. Those who have passed the course are Tier 1 Special Forces on a par with SAS and SBS
At the time (no pun intended) 2007, 264 (SAS) Signal Squadron was indeed becoming part of 18 (UKSF) Signal Regiment
You can read more about the Squadron and Regiment here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_(UKSF)_Signal_Regiment
I hope this goes some way to clearing up this thread.
I think the guy who wrote that wikipedia entry doesn't actually know what he is writing about :lol:
Must admit it's not the best but gives an idea of the role of the a Squadron/Regiment. (I don't think the chap who wrote it has got a watch)
To add about the criteria for the watch, it was open to serving and and ex serving members who had passed the course.
It was possible to try and request the number for your watch however certain numbers were reserved and auctioned ie 264/300.
Some great info come to light, thanks for the input! :)
A very interesting post, well done 8)
[quote="100thmonkey"]I can 100% guarantee you that the military do not procure/issue/have anything to do with/make these! Walter Mitty & The TA do, they are worth a fortune....If you are a fellow Walt.
cant confirm anything about this watch but can confirm this type of thing happens, got an inlaw of extended family who is SAS he has a seawolf, with the regimental badge on the dial and case back,
A Staffy at work is from 264 and knows I am into watches and was saying he has the limited edition SAS Seamaster for the 264 lads. I haven't seen it yet but he paid over £2,000 and they had to have 50 orders before Omega would do the work. The Intelligence Corps lads are having one done from Breitling and again the stipulation was the same.
As stated, these watches are nothing to do with the MoD, they are ordered and bought through the regiments via personnel wanting something to commemorate the unit, anniversary or something else.
It would be the same as if this website put up a thread asking if people were interested in getting Omega to make a TZ-UK commemorative watch, then contacting Omega to see if it was possible. It is in no way linked to TZ-UK, just people on it who want something to commemorate the site with.
Personally i have no real time for these watches because they are only special to the people they are made for, if 18 Sigs order some of these then that is for the personnel who want them, same with the SAS, SBS, SRR, etc. They are not 'military' watches, they are not 'historical' watches, they are commemorative watches ordered through Omega.
There are dozens of these going about, it's no real surprise, regiments have been getting personalised kit for years as commemorative issues, such as watches, rings, cuff links, bottles of wine, lighters and all other things.
Very true. I've personally seen bottles of wine and port from 22 SAS which they use in the Officers' Mess (and presumably likewise in the WOs & Sgts') and a Para Regt Breitling of some description. I also seen listed on the bay recently a similar Red Arrows Breitling but I wasn't so sure of its authenticity. Lots of this stuff about - just a question of cutting the wheat from the chaff, ie that which is made by some guy wanting to cash in on the notiriety of a unit and that which has been sanctioned by the unit itself. I'd be VERY surprised if the likes of this 264 Omega was made without the knowledge of DSF or one of his more senior staff officers. As watch264 will no doubt attest, UKSF still likes to keep a very closed shop for very good reasons.
There are dozens of these going about, it's no real surprise, regiments have been getting personalised kit for years as commemorative issues, such as watches, rings, cuff links, bottles of wine, lighters and all other things.
I don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise, just the fact that they are a run of a limited edition.
For those interested, I can post a photo of the design when I get back in a couple of weeks.
I don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise, just the fact that they are a run of a limited edition.
For those interested, I can post a photo of the design when I get back in a couple of weeks.
Ah, i was just pointing out they're commemorative watches, a lot of people mix this thing up with 'military' watches, the MoD are quite cheap when it comes to buying watches, basically G10s, Suuntos and some quartz chronos, nothing fancy unfortunately, i wish they did as i'd have one off stores :lol:
The commemorative stuff is nice though, and for me it's nice for the guys in these regiments, a kind of keepsake that can be worn everyday, the guys in Hereford, Poole and London can't run about with t-shirts with the regiment on it, so something like this is quite a nice touch.
Roger that, I did like my G1098 watch until my daughter managed to smash it. I had it for years and she has it for one cadet camp and smashed the glass. :x
I do have a Russian para type watch that I bought in the early 90's in Germany which I presume is some mass produced fake but will post in a couple of weeks when I'm home and when I have enough posts.
Quite a few guys on here are into the Russian military watches, just make sure it's not the one with the 'Polonium' dial :lol:
As promised a couple of photos
Yes, you can pick up all sorts at the Creden Hill Mess:
The easy way to find out if it is military issue is to ask to see a pic showing the NATO stock no. Any british kit issued (even leathermans, cutlery, socks etc) have a NATO stock number actually on the packaging. No NATO stock no. then it cant exist in the system and therefore is not ISSUED by the British Army. Not to say it isnt a private order by a unit though.
Niall
I am pretty sure that the only watches in the Armys inventory right now are the CWC G10 and the CWC Diver. The chance of this being issued by the British government even to the SAS is nill.
Private commissioning would be the only answer
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