Hello Edddie,
just thought I make a topic here to keep track of how things are moving on in this direction...
I can't find the old topic in the watch stuff zone, sorry!
if anyone is better at this search thing, please add link,
thanks
So - the ideal watch for me would be:
1.A travel watch - ie, one where the GMT hand doesn't move nor does the watch require to be stopped to reset the permanent hour hand; but where the 12-hour permanent hour hand can be jumped on crossing time zones
2. Combined 24 hour and 0-60 or 60-0 bezel
3. 24 hour markings on the dial
4. Great lume
5. Lumed bezel
A bit like this Benarus, in fact, but not so big and blasted or Ti rather than PVD finish:
http://www.benarus.com/gmtquartz/index.php
Possible to hide the GMT hand under the hour or minute hand until needed?
For me, lumed 0-60 bezel with subtle 24h markings on the dial. Sorry to say but the PRS-3 LE bezel with 1-12 and 0-60 on the same bezel is not working for me :( I would love a "travel GMT" also but I've feeling that due to patent issues it would mean a quartz movement.Originally Posted by HappyJack
This Limes eintausend popped up in my Google search when looking for an example.. loose some fat on the bezel font, get rid of the minutes scale on the dial and get some decent hands on it.. getting there :twisted: As it is, the dial + bezel are very crowded and the hands make it look like a Seiko (nothing wrong with Seikos as such)
Well that would make it a 12h GMT (like many Sinn models), acceptable to me IF there is a separate day/night indicator but that would probably involve a modified movement -> not happening?
i though that there were movement issues with this?
steve
I think that's the case - I read somewhere that Omega has patented the changes to the 2892 that make it possible to quickset the 12h hand with the crown, at the expense of the date. How they managed this when Rolex already had a movement that operated identically, I don't know, so perhaps all is not as it appears.
To avoid SwatchCo's black helicopter brigade you have to do it either the IWC way and have the 24h display in a window somewhere, the UN/Tudor way with +/- pushers, the Oris way with pushers and a subdial, or the "other" way that Swatch does it when it (conveniently?) sells you one of its ETA 2893 movements for a sum of money. But it is possible to have the time-traveller's way of doing it with quartz.
Personally I always think of "home" time first whenever I have to travel so have no problems using the 24h hand to indicate my local, temporary timezone and keep the main display on home time - which for me, in winter, is also GMT.
Thought: If you live on the east coast of North America, does a GMT watch become a GMT+5 watch? Since there would be no intrinsic reason to set it to GMT. I am forgetting Newfoundland for a sec because if you lived there, every mechanical GMT watch is useless ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
?
forget "GMT" as terminology, stick to a watch with two hands that can show two independent time zones, one for home one for another faraway place you have interest in.
and for those who missed it:
independent settable 12 hour hand = quartz
independently settable 24 hour hand = auto, eta 2893 (if I remember right..)
and Eddie is waiting for one smpale fitted with the quartz to see how it looks
my suggestions where:
bezel with lume dot at 24hr or 60min
24hr markings on the dial same colour as 24hr hand
lume on the 24hr hand
shape of 24hr hand fit to be easily distinguishable in the dark with the other hands and the hour markers
eg: different lume colour
What was patented was the means of converting a 2893-2 to operate in the described manner. Since Rolex does not convert a 2893, nor does it even used the same mechanical logic, the designs are different and neither is patent infringment.
Basically, all you have to do is take a Hangzhou 6311 GMT (aka a Chinese 2836-2 with a GMT hand instead of a day wheel) design for the GMT and increase the gear ratio of the lowest hand (old 24 hr hand) so it makes one rotation every 12 hours, and decrease the gear ratio of the second to lowest hand (old 12 hour hand) so it makes one rotation every 24 hours.
How you have a GMT movement with a 24 hour hand locked to the minute hand, and a independant 12 hour hand, and you get to keep the date quick set...
Interesting - didn't know a patent like this could go as far as specifying the base movement. Thanks.What was patented was the means of converting a 2893-2 to operate in the described manner. Since Rolex does not convert a 2893, nor does it even used the same mechanical logic, the designs are different and neither is patent infringment.
Omega says its 1128 calibre (the GMT's movement) is based on the 2892A2. In that a 2893-2 is also based on a 2892, I guess they could have started with either movement, but I wonder if the 2893 and Omega 1128 were developed by ETA along separate lines?
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I don't know if the actual patent does specify the base movement, but, yes, you can start with a specific starting point in a patent.Interesting - didn't know a patent like this could go as far as specifying the base movement. Thanks.What was patented was the means of converting a 2893-2 to operate in the described manner. Since Rolex does not convert a 2893, nor does it even used the same mechanical logic, the designs are different and neither is patent infringment.
Omega says its 1128 calibre (the GMT's movement) is based on the 2892A2. In that a 2893-2 is also based on a 2892, I guess they could have started with either movement, but I wonder if the 2893 and Omega 1128 were developed by ETA along separate lines?
A patent must not only specify the end point (an independent GMT hand with independent 12 hour hand) it must specify how you get there (similar to what I did in my earlier post, but much more detailed). If two people have found two different means of achieving the same objective, both are eligible for a patent.
You may note the major differences between the Rolex and Omega. The Rolex has the 24 hand second from the bottom, and the 12 hour hand on the bottom of the hand stack, the Omega has the 24 hand on the bottom and the 12 hour hand in its normal place. Obviously, the two use a different mechanism.
As to the 2892A2 vs 2893, the 2892 dates back to the 1980s, the 2893-2 only to 2002, or thereabouts. I believe the 1128 was developed before the 2893. and the 2893 (series) is a dumbed down version of the GMT. It probably was engineered for simplicity and ease of production.
Yes...but unless you do something to the date mechanism, it'll change when the 24 hr hand (the old 12 hr hand) passes midnight - not the local hour hand....
Yes, the date would be the GMT date.
EDIT: By the way, I have gone through all the US patents held by ETA and Omega that would still be in force (less that 20 years old) and cannot find one that seems to be about the indepentent 24 hour hand.
This leads me to some conclusions: the Omega 1128 is no longer covered by a patent, ETA/Omega just will not built any of these for anyone else, which is understandable. Not having seen the exact mechanism, I can assume that the modifications to the base 2892A2 are extensive enough that one one wants to try and reverse engineer it, either.
So, we are faced with this fact, we must live with what we have, the 2893-2, and the various Chinese movements with independent GMT hands and only the GMT Master and Seamaster GMT will have independent 12 hours hands (and a few quartz models.)
There's also the IWC UTC version though that uses a window display rather than a hand.
as far as looks go i quite like the sinn utc style, although it doesn't seem to be lumed, would be good in blue perhaps to stand out from the green
steve
Sinn have the unlumed skeleton hand type on the 103 UTC and 356 UTC which is the same shape as teh normal hour hand. There is a lumed arrow head type on the 144 GMT. All are a 12 hour hand which can be independently adjusted to sit out of sight behond the permanent hour hand.
For the travel type of watch we're talking about, with a 24 hour hand, there's no need to have it slide out of sight. But it would be good to have it lumed, and possibly a lumed bezel as well.
Incidentally, there have been several sales of used Benarus GMT Worldivers recently, which I think may be related to the size. The case Benarus use is about the same size as the 45.5 Omega Planet Ocean, and I think several people have found it's just too big. Something in the 39mm to 42mm would probably be preferable. With the quartz GMT movement, there's really no need for a really big case, anyway.
Could we not get a PRS3 with an eta 2893-1 or 2893-2?
That would be the business, altough I have no idea what those movemets cost. I recon if it can be done for <500 it would be a winner!
Would it not be easier to use the ETA 2893-2 and leave it at that?
A PRS3 GMT would then be as effective as a breitling GMT, and an airman. The prs 3LE has a two display bezel. why not make it a diver / 24hr bezel, then half teh problem of teh independant hand is solved.
For me, although im in the raf and do some travelling I find the gmt hand useful for domestic viewing of other time zones rather than to be able to chnge at a minutes notice getting off a plane. I think most people probably use a second timezone for easy readfing of the time in a different country for business or friends etc. Mine is set on PST most of the time for dealings with the US, ocassionally i change it to hongkong time for brunai, but ive never found myself settig the watch when getting off a plane. (I usually know what the time difference is going to be before the pilot announces it anyway!)
I think the PRS3 GMT would do this admitably and satisfy most peoples GMT needs.
PRS3 GMT I want one!!!!!
Any latest news on this "coming" Dreadnought GMT? :cry:
Come on Eddie - tell us it's going to happen....
There is a post in the tinezone watches forum entitled "movements" that's more or less this topic.
Have a look guys. I'm drooling for the speedbord gmt but I think the prs3 diver/gmt at reasonable money is probably even better.
Have a look.
I thought Eddie's plan was to build a PRS-2 GMT (the Dreadnought#2)
Have I missed something?
Also curious about that. I hadn't even heard of Timefactors or Precista when the Dreadnought was for sale. I think a GMT would stand an excellent chance of making me open my wallet :D
I couldn't wait and got myself the PRS3-LE orange instead.
The 100 lucky owners will be able to own a piece of Time Factors history.
jammy beggers.
I came to the forum looking for a Vintage Monaco.
But Eddies diver watch range will be more robust, and suit me better.
My PRS-3 will be keeping me happy for a long time yet.
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