Reply With Quoteif anything i sell is going out of the eu, i always put the full price on the declaration, if only to avoid any issue with insurance if it goes awol. i expect vendors i buy from to do the same but many don't.
...of obeying or disobeying them.
I created this thread so that people can discuss this issue, if they wish.
I'd rather this discussion topic didn't pollute my query thread about evayung on eBay. Thanks. ;-)
if anything i sell is going out of the eu, i always put the full price on the declaration, if only to avoid any issue with insurance if it goes awol. i expect vendors i buy from to do the same but many don't.
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
The insurance issue is, of course, something to be taken into account. However, if the value of an item is openly declared, one is more likely to need that insurance :wink:
Cheers
Stern
If asked to wrongly declare the value on a customs declaration - I wouldn't.
Mainly for the insurance reasons stated above.
Would I complain if I was to safely receive something, for which the declaration value was 'low' - I'm not too sure.
The main reason a lot of forms are 'wrongly described' is to stop the pilfering along the way. Not to avoid Duty, which is the other reason I assume the figures/descriptions are misquoted.
I back up the old argument of sealing the customs form on an attached plastic envelope, for inspection when required by the relevant authorities, not every Tom, Dick and Harry that handles it.
Is the discussion for parcels only, or for bringing things into the country while travelling as well? Personally I never bother declaring anything at the airport because (a) I like to spend as little time at the airport as possible and (b) I'm not a UK citizen so I'm taking everything with me when I leave anyway. I think I'm in theory covered by a personal belongings waiver, as long as nothing stays for 24 months, which it never does given my travel and watch rotation =P
The bottom line is having the sender under declare a parcels value to not pay duty or not declaring items at customs amounts to fraud. The laws are in place to encourage consumers to buy within in the EU, and during these economic times it can only be a good thing to stop purchases (and money) going overseas.
Just my opinion...
As far the morality of under declaring is concerned, personally I don't see the issue if the item is used. New items are different. I think it's a bit much to have to pay duty on used watches given tax would have been paid in the country of origin. It just seem like the exchequer trying to get a little bit extra. Therefore, to me there is nothing morally wrong in under declaring. The problem with under declaring is the insurance cover you will get with it. Many people understandably don't want to take the risk.
Having in the past been charged for VAT and duty on the cost of postage :roll: I have no problem morally with someone trying to avoid it.
.....................and considering the fact that most couriers now will not insure watches at all or for a low amount I don't have any issues with it at all, and given the high risk of some thieving git stealing it on top, I personally wouldn't be too fussed with someone not declaring what the contents actually were either.
Last week I did an exchange with a guy in the USA, suffice to say his £50 watch winder arrived safely and my $50 watch winder arrived safely too..............................................
Law Breaker! Take him away..........................................
Stef
What I find immoral is the numerous taxes we are subject to, so I have no problem underdeclaring or asking a seller to do the same, with the full knowledge and agreement of the other party, of course. In practice, for high value amounts, I'd rather be safe than sorry for insurance purposes.
Suppose a parcel from Japan says "Seiko wristwatch, value $120.00". That parcel will land on your doorstep in a few days, most likely without charges. Nor will it have tempted any thieving gits along the way.
What the parcel contains, well, that's between you and the seller, isn't it? :D
Originally Posted by Andre.
Amen to that, brother :twisted:
Cheers
Stern
I agree 100%
Why should we be taxed even more because we choose to spend some of our, hard earned, tax paid, money on a product from overseas?
It's like going back to the dark ages and the stuff has been taxed in the source country already anyway. :evil:
I have declared a much lower value in the past, though had a couple of hairy waits when I thought the watch went awol and obvious insurance shortfalls. I just wouldn't buy outside the EU in future.
:D[quote=london lad]I agree 100%
Why should we be taxed even more because we choose to spend some of our, hard earned, tax paid, money on a product from overseas?
It's like going back to the dark ages and the stuff has been taxed in the source country already anyway. :evil:[/quote:11wufyq9]
Better not go down that road because soon enough the righteous folks will come riding on the high horses and start preaching about the importance of VAT and, well, being earnest :D
[quote=SternG]:DI agree 100%
Why should we be taxed even more because we choose to spend some of our, hard earned, tax paid, money on a product from overseas?
It's like going back to the dark ages and the stuff has been taxed in the source country already anyway. :evil:
Better not go down that road because soon enough the righteous folks will come riding on the high horses and start preaching about the importance of VAT and, well, being earnest :D[/quote:2imluv67]
OK :-) But just before I go... VAT = Value Added Tax.... now then what was the 'added value' ? Oh yes, I remember, when they introduced VAT it replaced Selective employment tax and purchase tax. Wonderful, we are all paying 17.5% extra tax for the privilege of choosing our own jobs and being allowed to spend our own (already taxed) money :evil: :evil: :evil:
I'm always worried in case things go missing, and then you try claming. As a seller/sender it gets declared correctly when I recieve I don't ask for the value to be alterted but if the seller sends it with a reduced value on the ticket, it's up to them, BUT if it goes missing etc I would expect full compensation for the money I paid.
Mind you I once bought a lot of products from the states and the seller declared them exactly in both money and contents, as they were zero rated for vat the nice people at customs kept the package for near on 3 weeks, probably trying to find something to sting me with, but didn't.
Better not go down that road because soon enough the righteous folks will come riding on the high horses and start preaching about the importance of VAT and, well, being earnest :D[/quote]
Its called being HONEST not earnest.
8)
I don't have any problem declaring a small value, same as I do not have a problem receiving such a package. Less chances something gets "lost", less waiting at the customs, last but not least, less money extorted from me by my rulers.
Speaking of watches, nowadays it is pointless to declare a too small amount, as every custom officer can use google.
I have had a pakage 'opened' by customs before today..
Does your customs office charge for items returned from servicing, if that must be done out-of-country?
hi, bit off topic, but we are all "screwed" to death in this country! i could rant on all night, my forefathers fought and some of them died for this country.
if i had the money i would leave this "shit-hole" tomorrow.
im trying not to go on but......bent politicians, knife and gun crime, old people not able to keep warm....this list goes on...and....on........
jim.
This "Value for Insurance" raises it's head every so often and frankly, many, many people miss the bleedin obvious!
This is all about Value in case the parcel goes missing? Well, if it is missing, the value you wrote on the parcel is academic, it is missingf, you can't see it! It is hard to get insurance on parcels going overseas and £50 cover is the norm - UNLESS -you take out seperate insurance.
and that's the crux of it - separate. Nothing to do with the parcel!
I just can't get my head around people saying they won't undervalue a parcel, because of the insurance. £500 is achievable with Airsure - I think- though i have never tried - but to be honest, try a claim!
So to recap - you aren't going to write a lower value on a parcel in case it goes missing?
:?:
I have to agree G - DHL have had watches on their exclusion list for ages in respect of shipments from the UK, Airsure maxes out at £500, Fedex will only insure watches to $1000.
For me declaring the correct value is almost guaranteeing 2 things:-
1. Some scumbag will steal your parcel contents.
2. Customs and Excise will rob you blind for duties, VAT and an admin. charge.
:?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
That's the one - sticks in my fkn craw! THIRTY odd quid to collect £2.10p VAT - an absolute piss take.and an admin. charge
I've got to admit to being a bit of a hypocrite on this one.
I've never asked anyone to wrongly undervalue an item sent from abroad, but if they do, and it just sails straight through customs then I wouldn't complain!
I've been caught often enough for duty and VAT, and basically I can live with that. I do find the "admin" charge a rip-off though.
A fine is a tax for doing wrong, whilst tax is a fine for doing well. :wink: :wink: :D :D
I can catch you out the other way round though.
If you declare a value for customs of £10 and insure for £200 customs will charge you VAT and duty on £200.
? - how so, the insurance value is not printed on the shipping docket/information?I can catch you out the other way round though.
If you declare a value for customs of £10 and insure for £200 customs will charge you VAT and duty on £200.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
My Boschett Cave Dweller came through marked as a precision instrument. I'll still probably have to pay import duty (shipped by FedEx) as about half of the value was declared, but at least it didn't say watch!
Stef
Amen to that mate, I always label my parcels as horological instrument rather than "nice shiny watch for you b++++d to steal" because I don't trust postal workers anymore and the same goes to value, even if it was a bloody spade, if you say it's worth 1K somebody will try to have a go...I have to agree G - DHL have had watches on their exclusion list for ages in respect of shipments from the UK, Airsure maxes out at £500, Fedex will only insure watches to $1000.
For me declaring the correct value is almost guaranteeing 2 things:-
1. Some scumbag will steal your parcel contents.
2. Customs and Excise will rob you blind for duties, VAT and an admin. charge.
:?
How?I can catch you out the other way round though.
If you declare a value for customs of £10 and insure for £200 customs will charge you VAT and duty on £200.
The problem is if you pay for the carrier to insure it they will only insure the declared value. You'd have to take out 3rd party insurance to cover it and even then you'd struggle if it came to a claim as the carrier would have a note of the declared value.
Best not tell them in the first place if you ask me, and just take a chance!
Stef
Post offices will show insured value on label and couriers who act as clearance agents for customs will charge vat / duty at insured value.How?I can catch you out the other way round though.
If you declare a value for customs of £10 and insure for £200 customs will charge you VAT and duty on £200.
[quote=london lad]Post offices will show insured value on label and couriers who act as clearance agents for customs will charge vat / duty at insured value.[/quote:2r91472y]How?I can catch you out the other way round though.
If you declare a value for customs of £10 and insure for £200 customs will charge you VAT and duty on £200.
It has been a while, but from memory the only value declared on the customs label is the item value and since this only shows declared value regardless of country of origin how does this affect customs/import duties?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
If I was mad enough to spend thousands on a watch over the internet, I'd also be mad enough to be willing to travel for several hours there and several back to go and get it. This way I can wear the watch back in and no-one will bat an eyelid. There will be no paper trail because every single piece of documentation will have been sent by me separately from overseas to relatives, for forwarding to me later. The large protective box will be utilised to ship something delicate but ultimately worthless to another relative or friend with a note that takes 1 minute to write, explaining what it is. I will have my watch, and Darling will have nothing. It'll be a premium over the cost of shipping and insuring something that expensive, but peanuts compared to the amount the State wants to take from me. Customs officers in the Big Brother house will have to launch an investigation to piece it all together. There are bigger fish to fry.
Before any officious inspector has a go, I have decided that tax and duty on something that's already been taxed and dutied, and paid for with income that's already been taxed, is itself immoral. I didn't vote for the shower of grasping losers who've trashed the economy, and I won't pay for their mistakes.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
[quote=Chris_in_the_UK][quote="london lad":37yg2f0z]Post offices will show insured value on label and couriers who act as clearance agents for customs will charge vat / duty at insured value.[/quote:37yg2f0z]How?I can catch you out the other way round though.
If you declare a value for customs of £10 and insure for £200 customs will charge you VAT and duty on £200.
It has been a while, but from memory the only value declared on the customs label is the item value and since this only shows declared value regardless of country of origin how does this affect customs/import duties?[/quote:37yg2f0z]
OK. Customs, (be they customs officers or a courier acting as a customs clearing agent) subject to certain exclusions, will charge vat and duty where applicable on the value of the goods + postage. They may accept the senders declaration or inspect the invoice (which technically should be attached to the outside of the parcel) or use the insured value or assess the value by inspecting the goods.
If you take out insurance via the courier who subsequently acts as a customs agent then they will already know the insured value. If you ship by a 'post office' service and take an insurance option then its shown on the post office shipping label.
Bottom line is you can under declare and under insure / not insure at all and take the risk or you can fully insure and fully declare.
There is no insured value shown on the PO label - your receipt shows the amount insured. You can insure a parcel separately through a specialist insurer which isnt linked to the courier/PO. Think about all of the valuable art and antiques being shipped all over the world - these items are normally insured through specialists, not the shipping service.
i believe the customs declaration value is noted at the time of posting by the post office so in the event of a claim would be quoted.
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
[quote=london lad][quote="Chris_in_the_UK":327advdv][quote="london lad":327advdv]Post offices will show insured value on label and couriers who act as clearance agents for customs will charge vat / duty at insured value.[/quote:327advdv]How?I can catch you out the other way round though.
If you declare a value for customs of £10 and insure for £200 customs will charge you VAT and duty on £200.
It has been a while, but from memory the only value declared on the customs label is the item value and since this only shows declared value regardless of country of origin how does this affect customs/import duties?[/quote:327advdv]
OK. Customs, (be they customs officers or a courier acting as a customs clearing agent) subject to certain exclusions, will charge vat and duty where applicable on the value of the goods + postage. They may accept the senders declaration or inspect the invoice (which technically should be attached to the outside of the parcel) or use the insured value or assess the value by inspecting the goods.
If you take out insurance via the courier who subsequently acts as a customs agent then they will already know the insured value. If you ship by a 'post office' service and take an insurance option then its shown on the post office shipping label.
Bottom line is you can under declare and under insure / not insure at all and take the risk or you can fully insure and fully declare.[/quote:327advdv]
? the majority of carriers list watches as items not covered beyond a certain (low) value - so how do you 'fully' insure?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I wasn't commenting on insurance cover or watches in particular, just the fact that the is no point in taking out insurance at one amount if you are going to declair less as a customs value
the part that always drives me crazy is the one way of it:-
if i buy a new watch in the uk, i pay vat on it, if i then sell it to a collector in the states, when it leaves the country that vat isn;t refunded and the americans charge import duty. If i was to buy the same watch back, once again, no refund for the duty in the usa and i'll get hit by vat for the same watch again.
this seems to go against how vat works in business, we import stuff from outside the eu, we pay vat on it, but export it again we get the vat back ( actually it;s slightly more complex, but simplified for arguments sake)
the fact that couriers won't insure watches for over £1000 is a shows how much they think of their staff
saying that have used RMSD in the uk without a problem and fed ex internationally to the states and singapore, wouldn't go even think about it to europe though, german, french, italian, spanish eastern european, the list goes on and on over the years where packages mysteriously have disappeared or had their contents removed
A bit OT: is "Registered Mail" not available from RM in the UK? It is here in the US and registered is how I send my watches to Bienne. Insurance is available up to 5K. The package is strapped by the postie, stamped (in the sense of a seal) on all surfaces multiple times, and when not traveling (i.e. waiting for the next leg of transport) it is kept in a secure area separate from other packages. IOW, not pilferable by the casual thief.
As for customs charges, I find it deplorable that governments try to collect on items for which tax was paid at the time of sale and import when the item was new. To expect me to pay a tariff on 3000USD for a watch (that cost 500USD when new) which is insured for 3000USD because it is rare and collectible beggars belief. Then there's FEDEX and UPS, who charge customs tax for EVERY watch they deliver from overseas, adding their bogus processing fee to the invoice. I've been going at it with Fedex after they charged me for a battery and a bracelet last year - for a watch that is mechanical and came on a throwaway POS bracelet :evil:
Because of the following:-
Tax Vultures.
Excise Vultures.
Carrier Vultures.
Carrier Thieves.
Insurance Wrigglers.
Currency differences.
Product authenticity uncertainties.
:evil: I WILL NOT BUY WATCHES FROM OVERSEAS, NOR WILL I SELL WATCHES OVERSEAS :evil:
I sort of agree!
I would only buy watches from overseas from someone well known to me personally and even then I would probably go and pick it up if it was a high value watch.
I don't see any point in importing a high value watch without paying the vat if you want to wear it on a regular basis. Every time you go in or out the country you risk getting it confiscated or having to pay vat and penalties.
If you pay the vat then most overseas retailers come up much the same as UK prices, at least on new watches. There also seems to be big discounts on most makes available in the UK at the moment.
Obviously rare collectors watches are a different matter, but i don't buy that sort of watch myself.
As for selling, as long as I have been paid (irrevocably) and the buyer selects the shipping method and accepts the risk, I am happy to ship anywhere in the world.
I insure to the max and under value on the customs form, as has been said before, if the package gos missing so does that customs form.. Im pretty sure my postie doesnt record the declared value anywhere..
This has nothing to do with duties avoidance but all to do with trying not to attract the scrotes attentions...
Cheers..
Jase
I'll give you odds on he does :-) (On his computer / till / post terminal thing)
And what about if i buy watch (worth $1000) but i bought it on special 60% sale for $400.
Now i have a problem with shipping...real value is still $1000 but i payed $400...so if i write $1000 i will pay VAT and tax from this value.
And what about if i send my watch to fix some problems (warranty)? How to avoid taxes?
There is a facility for items being re-imported after repair. IIRC you have to pay tax on the cost of repair + shipping.
Is it working if i didn't pay any tax when i bought and shipped watch first time??
What if the watch is being shipped to you for repair?
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