Is it timekeeping, build, quality, perception ... or dare I say it, brand?
"High end" is usually short for "high end of the market", so I would say price. :)
Very high quality quartz watches would involve the standard things, such as the quality of the movement, case and dial. One hopes, but doesn't always expect, that price reflects the quality of these. .
Best wishes,
Bob
Wasn't there a cheap Pulsar watch that came out a few years ago with a remarkably accurate quartz movement?
Price and brand as a general rule I suppose, I would imagine that accuracy wise anything costing more than a fiver on a garage forecourt would be pretty decent :wink:
"I looked with pity not untinged with scorn upon these trivial-minded passers-by"
For me - High End = Accuracy. Breitling SQ is one. Omega has it's equivalent thermo-compensated movement. Rolex has it's own - other forums have whole sub-forums on this topic so I won't repeat here. The Breitling SQ I have gains around +5sec per annum (+-1sec deviation).
To be contentious: please bear in mind that over a long period of time a mechanical watch can (with judicious positioning) be more accurate than quartz - the daily variance may be greater for mechanical, but by placing appropriately face up or down or whatever overnight off wrist to nullify any gain or loss while wearing - means the variance can equate to zero over a few months.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
I'd say timekeeping. I regard at HEQ like at the 'Chronometer' tag. Higher price is a consequence, but the other way round is not true.Originally Posted by Gregorius
A SMP is not HEQ, despite the price. My Exceed is, at 10s/year. Most of them are thermocompensated, but a Seiko 8F (Huertecilla will jump in) can reach 20s/year with a simple (despite higher frequency) quartz. So HEQ is down to precision to me, just like for chronometer. I'd say 20s/year is a reasonable value, 10-12 times better than a standard quartz.
Obviously, most standard quartzes will do better than specifications, but so do mechanical movements that are not officially certified (from PRS29, apparently, to Damasko, IWC etc).
A
The same can be done with non-thermocompensated quartz watches and temperature differences - I noticed some of mine gaining slightly when off the wrist at night, and losing on the wrist. Most should be set up to gain at room temperature, and should lose time at body temperature, or fridge temperature
Another vote for (exceptional) accuracy :)
I'd go for accuracy as well. My CWC SBS keeps excellent time. Not sure what movement is in it though, could some kind soul tell me please?
Not a fan of quartz, but I'd say that a Seiko 8F has all the accuracy one will ever need. I don't know if it's "hi-end", but it does the job.
God help us when he does :D
Cheers
Stern
It is a rather generic term which has no clear cut definition although:
1. the term refers to the móvement
2. basically covers any quartz movement which offers the quartz monthly rate annually
Thermo compensated quartz movements are a specific type of high end quartz movement because... they have a provision engineered which makes them autocompensate for temperature :mrgreen:
This makes them a step more accurate still.
Since a tc quartz is more expensive it is logical to mount it in a better finished watch, making for an high end wátch which happens to have a heq quartz engine.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
What?? Just a few short sentences? We need a page-long diatribe, at the very least :lol: :lol:
Cheers
Stern
Accuracy all the way imo.
worth a look here:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/80Calcs/Nav ... meter.html
the Bruce Reding article is a good read and very informative..
http://www.scapro.se/text/jauchkristallara.pdf
dg
Here are my High End Quartz
A Sinn EZM2 GSG9 its not a Thermo compensated quartz
Next up My Aerospace which is Thermo compensated quartz so good for 5 sec's a year
Next a Junghans Mega 1000 multi-frequency radio-controlled movement so is spot on all the time :D
Do radio-controlled watches count as HEQ? When they are outside of range they are normally listed at being +/-15 second per month, i.e. standard quartz accuracy.Here are my High End Quartz
Next a Junghans Mega 1000 multi-frequency radio-controlled movement so is spot on all the time :D
So aren't they just a standard quartz watch with a bit of extra technology to allow them to correct themselves once a day?
A HEQ on the other hand won't need that correction.
Although they are they most accurate watch you can currently get, outside of radio-controlled, even one rated at 10 seconds a year will still be wrong with a few weeks of setting it. If it's wrong, it's wrong, whether it's 1 second a month or 10 seconds a day.
"I forget who it was that recommended men for their soul's good to do each day two things they disliked ... it is a precept that I have followed scrupulously; for every day I have got up and I have gone to bed."
I hate watches. They're always wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. What I want is 100% accuracy. 0% error. That's what I demand from myself and others and I don't know why watches should get away with it. Bloody watches.
No; that is standard quartz with an electronic re-setter.
If you would set a mechanical movement on the second every hour all year long this does not make it a 1 sec./year movement :idea:
About the accuracy between heq and radio controlled:
We set hour watches twice a year minmum with the hour change. An heq will be say 4. sec. off. That is 2 secs. average over the year.
That is better than an rc one wil be where I live.
Also the rc will be ´down´ to normal quartz specs when out of range.
In any case this is rather hypothetic as we normally do not nééd this sort of accuracy.
Probably an ETA 955.112
Thanks, just checked the ETA website and there's only two it can be, either the 955.422 10 1/2 ligne or the 955.122 11 1/2 ligne, both day/date, EOL battery indicator etc.Probably an ETA 955.112
[quote=Sancho Panza]Thanks, just checked the ETA website and there's only two it can be, either the 955.422 10 1/2 ligne or the 955.122 11 1/2 ligne, both day/date, EOL battery indicator etc.[/quote:3713w86u]Probably an ETA 955.112
The day/date version is the 955.122 or 955.124 and non-date version uses the 955.112 or 955.114.
They use an 11.5''' movement.
Radio controlled is the modern version of the old slave dials ... where in places like train stations, you will have one movement and this will electrically drive a number of slave dials.
No; that is standard quartz with an electronic re-setter.
If you would set a mechanical movement on the second every hour all year long this does not make it a 1 sec./year movement :idea:
About the accuracy between heq and radio controlled:
We set hour watches twice a year minmum with the hour change. An heq will be say 4. sec. off. That is 2 secs. average over the year.
That is better than an rc one wil be where I live.
Also the rc will be ´down´ to normal quartz specs when out of range.
In any case this is rather hypothetic as we normally do not nééd this sort of accuracy.
john
Costume jewellery. Ouch!!!
Interesting - I'd always got the HEQ to be a function of the quality of manufacture, rather than the quality of the movement, and some watches ( such as the Breitling B-1 ) also managed to have high accuracy 'super-quartz' or thermo compensated units inside.
I suppose my rationale was to distinguish quartz - cheaper build - from HEQ - high quality quartz..
However, I guess we see differentiations in the mechanical market - where we see high end watches with relatively high volume movements ( Anonimo use a good spread of ETA's, Rolex Explorer uses a high volume movement which doesn't seem well regarded in a couple of analyses I've seen), mid range watches with the same ETA movements, and really low volume movements in really high end watches - Richard Mille, anyone?
On that basis, perhaps there is another definition in the quartz world which we don't seem to have, mapping high quality watches with relatively common movements, which then gives the HEQ definition more room to breath - lower volume movements in high quality cases, which would seem to have accuracy as one of the characteristics.
so, we'd have Quartz, Fancy quartz ( need better phrase here, but it does allow FQ a la Mitsubishi) and HEQ...
:lol:
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
How so? To what degree could the quality of the case and bracelet affect the time-keeping ability?
It probably doesn't matter. The term "HEQ" is a modern internet consumer-type invented term that can mean many things, as you've surmised.
Ah, that withered old chestnut. Welcome to WISdom on the internet ;).Rolex Explorer uses a high volume movement which doesn't seem well regarded in a couple of analyses I've seen)
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
There's nothing wrong with being wrong, but if I pay a money to get something that is the peak of accuracy and it's still wrong, then what's the point, I might as well stick with a mechanical that loses 10 seconds a day and get the second hand sweep rather than the tick-tick-tick.
"I forget who it was that recommended men for their soul's good to do each day two things they disliked ... it is a precept that I have followed scrupulously; for every day I have got up and I have gone to bed."
It is simple. Nothing more complicated than a distinction in comparative quality. Nothing different form referring to high end or low end watches. The term ´luxury watch´ is even more diffuse.
In this case we are using a term for relative qualitative comparison for quartz wristwatch movements.
Some are pretty basic and are at the low end of quartz movements.
Some are made to higher specifications and are at the high end of quartz movements.
That is all there is to it :idea:
Q - When is a movement from the high end of quartz movements?
A - When it is better than the average quartz movement.
Q - How much better should it be to be considered high end?
A - That is not specified but the accuracy improvement from a monthly rate to the same per year is generally the accepted rule of thumb.
Q - How do we need to position a temperature compensated quartz movement?
A - Since those are the highest spec. movements at the moment, thóse are definitely at the high end of quartz movements.
Q - Where does a radio controlled quartz movement fit in?
A - Radio controlled means that the movement is reset at regular intervals through a radio signal. The móvement can be from any sector in the quality range, but because it is reset by radio anyway it is ususally an average spec. quartz movement.
interesting point. so when i pay money for a car, it has to be the peak. now, it could be a 911 destroyed and ready to be written off (10 s/d) or a gti with a small scratch on a bumper (10s/y, 365 times better). as in both cases it is is not perfect, it is down to the noise, so 911 all the time :shock:
The Breitling B1 SQ must surely qualify.
Strange comparison and it completely beats me why this has been dragged into it since why not use a hand made verge mechanism then? It is irrelevant: mechanicals are not q :idea:interesting point. so when i pay money for a car, it has to be the peak. now, it could be a 911 destroyed and ready to be written off (10 s/d) or a gti with a small scratch on a bumper (10s/y, 365 times better). as in both cases it is is not perfect, it is down to the noise, so 911 all the time :shock:
The OT asked what makes an high end eq.
Thát is simple; higher specs than average q.
I was given a Tissot PRC200 chronograph in December 2008, and after setting it to the exact time then, have not adjusted it since. Checking it against the atomic clock today, I find it is 1 second slow (and 5 days out in date!). :D
I was trying to be sarcastic (hence the smiley, hint, hint). I can't understand davidbull in that if an HEQ is not 0s/y, than it is better a 10s/d mechanical. But hey, his money..Strange comparison and it completely beats me why this has been dragged into it since why not use a hand made verge mechanism then? It is irrelevant: mechanicals are not q :idea:interesting point. so when i pay money for a car, it has to be the peak. now, it could be a 911 destroyed and ready to be written off (10 s/d) or a gti with a small scratch on a bumper (10s/y, 365 times better). as in both cases it is is not perfect, it is down to the noise, so 911 all the time :shock:
The OT asked what makes an high end eq.
Thát is simple; higher specs than average q.
Eh, don't you re-set it for BST? :D
Do any of us really care.. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
No; that is standard quartz with an electronic re-setter.
If you would set a mechanical movement on the second every hour all year long this does not make it a 1 sec./year movement :idea:
About the accuracy between heq and radio controlled:
We set hour watches twice a year minmum with the hour change. An heq will be say 4. sec. off. That is 2 secs. average over the year.
That is better than an rc one wil be where I live.
Also the rc will be ´down´ to normal quartz specs when out of range.
In any case this is rather hypothetic as we normally do not nééd this sort of accuracy.
Paul (owner of several highly inaccurate mechanical watches)
So if accuracy is the only definition of heq, then case quality, build, etc. has no bearing on the definition?
That doesn't sound right.
In the mechanical world, that makes a perfectly adjusted timex a high end watch.
Not if I don't wear it -Eh, don't you re-set it for BST? :D
No, it has not.
Yes, that is correct as the term relates to the móvement. Just like there are high end and low end mechanical movements.
The quality of the movement, the quality of the casing et all, the quality of the materil, are not per definition linked in a specific combination.
Look at stainless steels: there are lower end and higher end alloy. same thing steel versus titanium and gold.
Gold is a luxury high end metal but that does not hold that all high end luxury watches need to be gold.
High end quartz is nothing more or less that a relative indication of the quality of the quartz movement.
If you find it confusing, then it might clear up things to look at the Chopard watches.
Quality personal adornments fitted with just about any quality of movement, from base quartz to hand made mechanical. ÁLL high end luxury wristwatches: only sóme meant for wis-dom.
No. Not wátch. Time keeper yes.
As time on the wrist a 10 euro Casio F-91W is higher spec than any watch with a mechanical movement.
Looking at time keeping on the wrist, mechanicals are at the low end.
That is exáctly what Hayek and Biber understood :idea:
Look at the three GS anniversary models released last month. All three the same quality casing end all. One with tc quartz, one spring drive, one traditional mechanical.
The tcq is indisputably superior in all (smae everything with the superior time keeping) yet the lowest spec. time keeper is perceived as the highest end watch.
Thát is the work of Hayek and Biber :idea:
I don't find it confusing, I just don't agree with the definition!
Thinking further, then if the Chopard analogy is right, then the WIS issue has a focus in an entirely different direction than what I would expect - I read from the comment that fantastic case and poor movement cannot be WIS specific, fantastic movement and poor case is WIS specific - still doesn't feel right.
I contend that HEQ is a mix of excellent movement and excellent case etc. It can't just be about a movement, as we don't buy just movements...
The Omega Marine Chronometer with the 1510 calibre innards springs to mind. Dickstar wrote a great article on them here and I have basically the same movement in my Stardust. Advertised as accurate to one second per month!
Another chance for gratuitous pic...
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