Doxa's latest genius post

[Chris_in_the_UK]

ISTR there was talk some time ago about this one being laid to rest by Doxa hosting a tour of their factory in Switzerland. Did this ever happen?

The goose chase ended up at a registered office IIRC.

[poorman]

I am going to give up trying to convince the members, I thought this was the start of intelegent dialoge. You may now insert into this any kind conspiracy theory you can come up with. In parting I will say that DOXA is a large watch company that sells tens of thousands of many types of watches, to many parts of the world. Our dive watches are a small, but specialized, section of the company. And the company itself is part of a Swiss family owned and operated group of businesses, part of which is Walca SA (Switzerland), and a section of Walca SA is Walca Far East (Hong Kong). So I guess we are guilty by association.

Cheers,
Andy

[NJH]

:lol: Its spreading.

Post the pictures of Doxa's being made in a swiss factory or shut up.

[Tai Mi Shu]

Seems like Doxa ( One FS @ £950, did I mention that? :wink: ) aren't the only ones behaving like children.

[phil h]

Proof that if you argue strongly enough and long enough about something without being prepared to presenting any concrete evidence that people will still not believe what you say.

I wonder if any of the WUS faithful will read this post and discuss it - behind closed doors and in whispered tones.

I wonder if this post makes me a troll? :cry:

[Seamaster73]

ISTR there was talk some time ago about this one being laid to rest by Doxa hosting a tour of their factory in Switzerland. Did this ever happen?

A tour of a PO box wouldn't take long.

[Daddelvirks]

Whatever the outcome of all this, there's no fun in buying a Doxa anymore, the damage is done.
Everytime you look at your watch you'll be reminded that your watch is a Chinese pile of horse-manure made by a company that tries to restrict the freedom of speech on a watch-forum :D

On a SC near you.................................

Daddel.

[SternG]

The Wikipedia entry for Doxa has been mentioned, I think. It's a joke :twisted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxa_S.A.

It is written like an advertisement and... its neutrality is disputed

Oh, really? :roll:

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I am going to give up trying to convince the members, I thought this was the start of intelegent dialoge. You may now insert into this any kind conspiracy theory you can come up with. In parting I will say that DOXA is a large watch company that sells tens of thousands of many types of watches, to many parts of the world. Our dive watches are a small, but specialized, section of the company. And the company itself is part of a Swiss family owned and operated group of businesses, part of which is Walca SA (Switzerland), and a section of Walca SA is Walca Far East (Hong Kong). So I guess we are guilty by association.

Cheers,
Andy

Same old cr@p.

[ralphy]

I am going to give up trying to convince the members, I thought this was the start of intelegent dialoge.

Hi there, I'm all for intelligent dialogue - irrespective of how you spell it (just a joke :lol:) - but what exactly were you trying to convince us of? That Doxa dive watches are not made in China? Because that seems to be the presumption around here. Or was it something else that I've missed, please?

R

[andy111s]

So if Doxa publicly say that their watches are all 'made in china', except those that are fabricated in China and built in Switzerland which thay can say are 'made in Switzerland' everything would be OK? Or am I missing the point... Don't lots of 'high-end' brands do the same thing?

To be honest, comments like 'F*ck DOXA' scrawled across a discussion does no favours to anyone...

[MuRph77]

So if Doxa publicly say that their watches are all 'made in china', except those that are fabricated in China and built in Switzerland which thay can say are 'made in Switzerland' everything would be OK? Or am I missing the point... Don't lots of 'high-end' brands do the same thing?

To be honest, comments like 'F*ck DOXA' scrawled across a discussion does no favours to anyone...

No, but it makes me smile, and lets get it right.... I am the centre of the universe.... so my rules.

[andy111s]

So if Doxa publicly say that their watches are all 'made in china', except those that are fabricated in China and built in Switzerland which thay can say are 'made in Switzerland' everything would be OK? Or am I missing the point... Don't lots of 'high-end' brands do the same thing?

To be honest, comments like 'F*ck DOXA' scrawled across a discussion does no favours to anyone...

No, but it makes me smile, and lets get it right.... I am the centre of the universe.... so my rules.

Murph - you can't possibly be my wife... ;)

[TheFlyingBanana]

What a fascinating thread and, I believe, a very important one for these reasons:

1 This is a clear example of a watch making multi-national using misleading promotion and marketing, or is at least very open to misinterpretation. I suspect this situation is far from unique to Doxa.

2 A large prestige watch company has spoken to and dealt with its brand enthusiasts very poorly indeed. The watch enthusiast community makes a significant contribution to the perceived brand value.

3 This thread provides a very valuable insight into the industry as a whole. The ambiguity surrounding the "Swiss Made" label is very clear, and needs to be fully addressed.


So, conclusion. Buy watches that were made in the 1970's before the globalisation of the industry. Buy a 1970's Doxa and you are getting a handcrafted piece of Swiss watchmaking heritage. Buy a modern one and you are getting.... well, it's clearly very difficult to know what you are actually getting.... but it is a product of a large corporation that is very different from small independent artisans of the past.

I find myself more and more attracted to vintage pieces for this very reason.

[MuRph77]

So if Doxa publicly say that their watches are all 'made in china', except those that are fabricated in China and built in Switzerland which thay can say are 'made in Switzerland' everything would be OK? Or am I missing the point... Don't lots of 'high-end' brands do the same thing?

To be honest, comments like 'F*ck DOXA' scrawled across a discussion does no favours to anyone...

No, but it makes me smile, and lets get it right.... I am the centre of the universe.... so my rules.

Murph - you can't possibly be my wife... ;)

I may just be..... tonight check the undercarriage.... just to make sure. :wink: :wink:
If you get a slap.... blame it on me.

[Foxy100]

It could just be me but the Doxa entry on Wikipedia and the posts from that other forum do seem to have the same feel about them, in the sense that they both have similar minor grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. For example, from the Wikipedia site: "Recently, Doxa has been revived by the Jenny family of Switzerland, who owns the brand". From the forum: "'This time we will track everyone down who is coming just to bash and hope they are doing somebody else a favor." I like the thought of someone helping an old lady across the road while telling her how EDIT rubbish EDIT Doxa is. Not that wrong but slightly uncomfortable to read.

Maybe it's just me. It is me, isn't it?!

Anyway, good point Mr Banana, I think I too will avoid new Doxas and just watch out for the old ones.

[ralphy]

To be honest, comments like 'F*ck DOXA' scrawled across a discussion does no favours to anyone...

No, but it makes me smile, and lets get it right.... I am the centre of the universe.... so my rules.

Not round here you're not: Eddie rules and it's Eddie's rule - no swearing in the public forums.

Suggest you edit it.


R

[Parabola]

Ironic that doxa means popular opinion and that's what Doxa appear to be trying to manipulate

[swanbourne]

So if Doxa publicly say that their watches are all 'made in china', except those that are fabricated in China and built in Switzerland which thay can say are 'made in Switzerland' everything would be OK? Or am I missing the point... Don't lots of 'high-end' brands do the same thing?

To be honest, comments like 'F*ck DOXA' scrawled across a discussion does no favours to anyone...

No, but it makes me smile, and lets get it right.... I am the centre of the universe.... so my rules.

I think I've just demonstrated whose rules.

Eddie

[Daddelvirks]

There can't be two in the centre of the universe? can there? :D

Ta Ediie :)

Daddel.

[Dibetu]

I am no Doxa fan at all, as you can tell from my many posts :lol: But I am 100% sure that the watches are assembled in Switzerland to comply with the Swiss law in this regard. Most private label makers work that way so that the Swiss Made can be displayed on the dial. If they broke the law in that regard the large watch groups that still produce in Switzerland would crucify them. Reading through the Walca site the staff in Hong Kong and China are primarily there to source, quality control and prototype the parts used to assemble the Swiss made watches. Unlike others Doxa has always told lies regarding this. But most notably they have recently removed the claim that the cases were 100% made in Switzerland using the old tooling and machinery which they have done for years on their web site. A very sure way to know that a case originates in some form from China is the use of 316L steel; either as blanks or ready made cases.
Swiss case makers use Staybrite® 1.4435 steel which is far finer and superior and has become a synonym with Swiss, German and Italian made watch cases.

[learningtofly]

I am no Doxa fan at all, as you can tell from my many posts :lol: But I am 100% sure that the watches are assembled in Switzerland to comply with the Swiss law in this regard. Most private label makers work that way so that the Swiss Made can be displayed on the dial. If they broke the law in that regard the large watch groups that still produce in Switzerland would crucify them. Reading through the Walca site the staff in Hong Kong and China are primarily there to source, quality control and prototype the parts used to assemble the Swiss made watches. Unlike others Doxa has always told lies regarding this. But most notably they have recently removed the claim that the cases were 100% made in Switzerland using the old tooling and machinery which they have done for years on their web site. A very sure way to know that a case originates in some form from China is the use of 316L steel; either as blanks or ready made cases.
Swiss case makers use Staybrite® 1.4435 steel which is far finer and superior and has become a synonym with Swiss, German and Italian made watch cases.

Nice to see a measured and sensible post as this subject becomes increasingly emotive, and I'm sure what you say is essentially correct.

Of course, it's all very well quoting numbers of personnel based in Switzerland but the issue remains as to what they do. Walca provide a PowerPoint presentation that's downloadable from their website, and from which it's clear that many of those working out of Bienne will be concerned with the various aspects of an end-to-end process that starts with conceptual design and ends with account and project management. None of those people, however, will be making or assembling any watches and the numbers quoted are therefore misleading. Indeed, it's possible that of the total number of people employed in Bienne, but a single technician is tasked with assembling the various parts that are sourced and manufactured in the Far East. Furthermore, none of them at all work for Doxa.

Smoke and mirrors?

[swanbourne]

Perhaps wikileaks can tell us?

Eddie

[thattallchap]

Perhaps wikileaks can tell us?

Eddie

Don't start that Eddie, well have Cyber Punks on our doorstep trying to break in!

[SimonK]

And Doxa fanboys saying they have been rogered by Julian Assange.

[Broussard]

Slightly OT, but the reference above to Staybrite® reminded me of this article about the (largely historic) use of Staybrite® steels in watches. It covers the modern steels too, not just the 18/8, including WCQ (watch case quality) and the newer NCu 1.4355 steels.

[tista]

No one should be surprised by any of this. There was once a watch company and now it's a marketing company. The solution is simple: buy vintage.

[Toshi]

What a fascinating thread and, I believe, a very important one for these reasons:

1 This is a clear example of a watch making multi-national using misleading promotion and marketing, or is at least very open to misinterpretation. I suspect this situation is far from unique to Doxa.

2 A large prestige watch company has spoken to and dealt with its brand enthusiasts very poorly indeed. The watch enthusiast community makes a significant contribution to the perceived brand value.

3 This thread provides a very valuable insight into the industry as a whole. The ambiguity surrounding the "Swiss Made" label is very clear, and needs to be fully addressed.


So, conclusion. Buy watches that were made in the 1970's before the globalisation of the industry. Buy a 1970's Doxa and you are getting a handcrafted piece of Swiss watchmaking heritage. Buy a modern one and you are getting.... well, it's clearly very difficult to know what you are actually getting.... but it is a product of a large corporation that is very different from small independent artisans of the past.

I find myself more and more attracted to vintage pieces for this very reason.

I'm not sure that I'd describe Doxa as either a "multi-national" or a "large prestige watch company". I would guess that, if the truth were known, we would be surprised at just how small a company Doxa really is. A handful of employees in the USA and everything else out-sourced would be my guess.

As for "customer service"? well, having experienced it first hand I won't be a customer of theirs again

[GraniteQuarry]

Indeed, vintage is the only way :)

I've had over 30 Doxas these last 5 years, and this is the only one I'm keeping -

[Dibetu]

I'm not sure that I'd describe Doxa as either a "multi-national" or a "large prestige watch company". I would guess that, if the truth were known, we would be surprised at just how small a company Doxa really is. A handful of employees in the USA and everything else out-sourced would be my guess.

As for "customer service"? well, having experienced it first hand I won't be a customer of theirs again

Doxa claiming to be a large "Manufacture" and employing so many people is like Eddie claiming that the Zeno Watch Employees were his, when he produced the Broadarrows and Speedbirds there. But of course Eddie is open and makes no secret where his watches are made. :lol:

The Doxa brand made by Walca produces thousands and thousands of watches every year and Doxa Sub is separate entity also made by Walca.

In my own personal opinion (and this is just my own opinion and not confirmed) Doxa Sub in Switzerland = Rick Marei in Austria who splits himself up into different personalities like John Pfeiffer and others; some of who have left Doxa ........The reason I have come to this conclusion is emails I have from Doxa signed with different names which contain the exact same spelling mistakes and word formulations. But then it could just as well be a Microsoft anomaly and I could be very wrong.

[roadkingrider]

Breaking News....................

From an undisclosed location (in Chinee), ADOX spokesperson, T-Bag announced today that former U.S. Vice President Dick "the Enforcer" Cheney has been hired to track down and exorcise TROLLS who visit and post on the firm's forum.TROLLS contacted for this news story had "no comment".

[Chris_in_the_UK]

For me this is dead simple.

For as long as they continue to be obtuse and avoid any direct answers and information the suspicion will continue. This is what fuels conspiracy type theories. This in itself is not good but it is made far worse by the heavy handed Doxa forum management and the nonsense we have seen posted by them elsewhere in defence of the veil of information.

I like some of the range (do not do orange dials :wink: ) but I suspect I will never own one since I cannot be sure 100% what I am buying and where it's whole has come from.

If they were a couple of hundred £'s then this would not be such an issue for me - but they are not.

[Dibetu]

For me this is dead simple.


If they were a couple of hundred £'s then this would not be such an issue for me - but they are not.

Exactly, that is the whole point.

If they were 600 USD; which is what they are worth in my opinion one would ignore the other issues.

A base ETA 2824 powered watch costing more than an Omega Planet Ocean or a Breitling Avenger Seawolf purchased at grey market prices. (Taking into account that we in Europe need to add 15-24% extra VAT and a very lousy currency exchange to the dollar price when buying a Doxa.)

[ralphy]

Bremont must be heaving a sigh of relief for a change.

Just sayin'.

:D

R

[NJH]

Contrast the Doxa forum and 'contributions' from the Doxa company to what I found in another area of WUS
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f8/news-no ... 37529.html
... then noting this is the 3rd report.

I have never bought a Nomos but I found the 3 reports genuinely interesting. How is it that Doxa just do not get what WIS is about?

Doxa is a company that frankly as an enthusiast I find impossible to give a penny of my money.

[tertius]

Contrast the Doxa forum and 'contributions' from the Doxa company to what I found in another area of WUS
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f8/news-no ... 37529.html
... then noting this is the 3rd report.

I have never bought a Nomos but I found the 3 reports genuinely interesting. How is it that Doxa just do not get what WIS is about?

Doxa is a company that frankly as an enthusiast I find impossible to give a penny of my money.

That article is a fabulous find - it deserves its own thread.

I recently bought my first Nomos on the SC here and they are definitely very lovely watches.

[ralphy]

Contrast the Doxa forum and 'contributions' from the Doxa company to what I found in another area of WUS
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f8/news-no ... 37529.html
... then noting this is the 3rd report.

I have never bought a Nomos but I found the 3 reports genuinely interesting. How is it that Doxa just do not get what WIS is about?

Doxa is a company that frankly as an enthusiast I find impossible to give a penny of my money.

That article is a fabulous find - it deserves its own thread.

Yes indeed. Excellent article!

Well done Neil; great find. 8)

R

[NJH]

Contrast the Doxa forum and 'contributions' from the Doxa company to what I found in another area of WUS
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f8/news-no ... 37529.html
... then noting this is the 3rd report.

I have never bought a Nomos but I found the 3 reports genuinely interesting. How is it that Doxa just do not get what WIS is about?

Doxa is a company that frankly as an enthusiast I find impossible to give a penny of my money.

That article is a fabulous find - it deserves its own thread.

I recently bought my first Nomos on the SC here and they are definitely very lovely watches.

Your right it certainly does deserve and now has its own thread :D .

[magirus]

The Nomos link was a fascinating read, thanks for posting it! :) A refreshing change from the Doxa nonsense.

[aldfort]

Excellent post on Nomos

[Daddelvirks]

Excellent post on Nomos

+1

Great reading :)

Cheers,

Daddel.

[Seamaster73]

Doxa is a company that frankly as an enthusiast I find impossible to give a penny of my money.

As Terry-Thomas said of the Nazis in Private's Progress, "They've behaved like a shower, and they'll be treated like a shower".