Reply With QuoteBudget?
I know this is a watch forum, but I have another car related question :D
I live in the yorkshire dates on a steep road that never gets gritted. After a couple of years of being stranded when the snow/ice comes I'm starting to look at getting a car that can cope with the weather. I'm looking for a bit of advice on what would do the job. I don't plan on doing any proper off-roading or tow anything and would like something as practical as possible for normal motoring for the rest of the year. Do I need a full size 4x4 or would a 4wd estate do? Any views?
Big 4x4
Landrover Discovery - Premium product (expensive/unreliable?)
Hyundai Santa Fe - Best of the rest, budget buy
Small 4x4
Landrover Freelander
Toyota Rav 4
4x4 Estate
Audi A4 Quattro
Subaru Legacy
Thanks in advance
Budget?
I've had Legacys, Foresters and now CR-V's, all good motors, all reliable and will get you home when most people are stuck. I'd probably go back to a Subaru after this CR-V if I didn't need the extra height and space in the boot.
The joy of The Honda CRV is the rock solid engine and it has intelligent 4WD so it kicks in when needed which lets face it most of us need as by the time you realise youre in the shit its just another button to push or lever to pull.
RIAC
+1 for checking out Subaru.Originally Posted by junglebert
Subaru has upsized the Forester (2009 IIRC) and I believe they also offer a diesel model now. Of course, they don't offer the diesel in the US but I think it's offered in the UK and I seem to remember reading some pretty positive reviews. I would recommend at least taking one for a spin.
For the last six or seven years, I've driven a Volvo XC70. Inside, it's a standard V70, with the big interior and very supportive seats; but outside it has increased ground-clearance, Mud+Snow tyres, beefed-up bumpers and door-guards, plus automatic 4-wheel drive (I have the Geartronic box).
It's been absolutely perfect. Great for zooming along the motorway or cruising quietly, but can rumble down the roughest of country lanes, plug it's way across a muddy field, or climb a snow-bound hill with ease. It was the ideal vehicle in the recent 10-inch snowfalls, and allowed me to get around even when the gritter lorry didn't come calling.
Some reviews:
- carpages.co.uk;
- carenthusiast.com;
- autoexpress.co.uk.
If you don't need the size, space and running costs of an SUV then I'd advocate the A4 Quattro. Short anecdote - this time last year, as I walked out of work it was obvious it had just rained and then frozen solid. The ice was visible in the car park and you could barely walk on it -it literally looked like an inch of glass everywhere.
As I made it out of town the traffic was hideous which 'persauded' me to take a different route.
Small incline still in town, three cars in front all stuck, going nowhere and sliding sideways. VW Golf in front gave it a go and got about 50 ft before stopping, sliding sideways front wheels spinning, car sliding sideways back down the incline (incline being the word not a hill).
At the time I had an A4 3.0 TDi Quattro so stuck it in first and promtly went straight up the incline - no worries. Some local lads had gathered at the top to chuckle at the carnage and all I can remember is hearing the words "ah, an Audi". The situation repeated itself elswhere in town a week later (this time without the lads and with a car literally stuck half way). It makes me smile a year later and I now have an A6 3.0 Quattro.
The ONLY thing to consider is if you do live in the boondocks - which I don't - a set of winter tyres will help no-end. Winter tyres are now a legal requirement in Germany and they do make a difference.
In the same situation as you I bought a Nissan Qashquai 4x4 (second hand) this year - just in the nick of time before the snow came.
Well worth it and I can now drive to and from work with a huge degree of confidence.
No, it's not a "proper" 4x4 (Land Rover/Landcruiser) but it does the job for me and it's paid dividends already.
I had a limited budget and admit that if I had a few more pounds I would have got a Honda CRV. But I am very happy with the Nissan.
Try a test drive of a Jeep Patriot Diesel 4x4.
Variable or Permanent 4WD, VW CRD 2.0 Diesel Engine, 42.2 MPG combined (up to 51.4). I've got the Limited model with heated leather, Air con, updated audio, etc etc. And its good in the snow/ice. I love mine.
If the ground is not too rough there are many Audi Quattro's out there. I had the A6 avant for a while. excellent car and very sure footed in any condition. They do a cross country version with adjustable height suspension for the rougher tracks.
Suburu are very good but are a little more specialised when it comes to getting it maintained.
And on that note. Stay away from Landrover. Horrible ride in the workhorses and the chances of breaking down in any model are excellent.
I now drive a Shogun SWB 3.2D. Very powerful and fun to drive and like most Jap machines very reliable and capable.
Skoda Octavia Estate Scout 4x4 is top of my list. A more basic and cheaper option than the Audi but does the job just as well.
I've got a 2010 Legacy STW (2,5l CVT) and I've been quite happy with it. I live in Finland, and the 4x4 is quite useful here. ;) The new model is also pretty spacious, the boot is huge (though not very high). The technical quality is superb, but the material choices inside are not as nice as in a VW or an Audi.
Thanks for all the replies, very useful. My budget would be about £15k so I'd be looking for something used. I like the idea of an A4, but the CRV/RAV4 and XC90 are worth a look if the A4 is too £££
There is only one 4x4 - LR / RR.
Just get a set of new rims and some winters tyres and in most cases you will find the job is done without needing a 4x4.
The Mrs has a CRV and it has been great in the snow we had. On top of that its practical, evry car-like, comfortable and the diesel engine is pretty economical too.
Well worth a look and comes with Honda's famed relaibility.
Cheers
I have the petrol and if I changed anything it would be to goto Diesel, that said the petrol is nippy for a big fella
RIAC
I loved my '03 plate model but the new one was so much bigger that it wouldn't fit in my garage so I went Ford C-Max (when I swapped last February), which does and still has plenty of room in the boot. No good in the snow and ice though, as I found out before Christmas.
+1 on the XC70. XC90s also fall in the price range. Go for the diesel engine in both.
Audis tend to be a bit dull (IMO), but Subarus are regularly top of the surveys for quality, reliability etc, so worth a look....but maybe a bit hard to find a good one as sales are small. I wouldn't bother with a full-size 4x4 personaly as they're mostly too big for UK roads and the petrol pump becomes your best friend!!
I've always gone for the Landcruiser midsize version. They're not the sexiest choice but are pretty bulletproof. They hold there value pretty well so even a 2005/2006 version will still cost about £15k.
If you don't need the extra ground clearance, I personally wouldn't bother with a 'full' 4x4 such as a Land/Range Rover or Landcruiser. You will just end up paying more in fuel and maintenance. Just as importantly, you are still lugging around a considerable 'mass' (ie 2.5 tonnes plus). Although the 4WD will get you moving in snowy/muddy conditions, this 'extra' mass still has to be stopped and slowed to get around corners.
I have been living and working in North Scotland for the last couple of years and a set of winter tyres and wheels on my M3 got me through the worst of the conditions in the heavy snow last year. However, for this year, I spent £1000 on a '97 Subaru Impreza estate. As we all know, the snow this year has been even worse than last year but the Impreza has been an absolute revelation. The car is still on summer tyres but no amount of snow or ice has stopped it (and I live down the end of a muddy farm track).
So, the moral of this tawdy tale? I can highly recommend Subarus.
I live on an unmade track which is also on a hill & have had a manual 2.5tdi Disco, which was great, a Shogun Pinin Auto- which wasn't good due the lack of engine braking & currently have an 53 plate Jeep Cherokee, manual 2.5 crd Limited which is my favourite of the 3- It is rear wheel drive but has selectable 4 wheel drive ( you can change from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive up to 55mph)with high and low ratios which allows coming down the hill in the snow at a snails pace- also so far been very reliable & the Limited have nice spec - heated leather seats, air con sunroof etc.
Without a doubt i"ll choose a Subaru Forester.
There are plenty of clips on the tube where they compare them to others.
I'd say Subaru or Toyota but as a wild card a second hand Merc G wagon. Look the business IMO and are very solid long lasting vehicles.
Brilliant but pricey.
I can confirm that the C-RV is very capable in snow. I'm currently running the gen 3 petrol. It'ss my 3rd CRV. Also an excellent all rounder but does not handle that well (it's not a car and is good in it's class but poor compared to a sports estate.)
However the Audi A4 quottro (had one about 5 years back) is unbeatable as an all round 365 days of the year car if it will meet your needs. (It has mimimal load carrying capacity.) :D
Landrovers - how much time do you like to spend with your dealer? The only good Landrover is the Defender. :D
As the owner of both a land rover range rover and a defender I think this is the best advice on the thread! The number of idiots I have seen this winter in 4x4's is unbelievable. Although 4x4 does give better traction for going up hills every car has 4 wheel brakes and it is coming down hill that the fun really starts. The difference in grip offered by the correct tyres for the conditions is amazing, I was in Sweden last winter and I spotted very few 4x4's but the cars had tyres suited to the conditions and just drove over the ice / compacted snow as though it was Tarmac.
I've heard that the Audi RS6 is particually good at snow and ice with winter tyres fitted so thats what I would get :D
Another vote here for winter tyres. Our 'practical' car is an Alfa 33. We live nearly two miles from the nearest gritted road on a significant hill. Then we're another 50 yards down a mud track. With £130 worth of winter tyres on the front of the Alfa I drove around this last month or so on fresh snow, compacted snow, sheet ice and slush as if it was barely there. The only thing I had to be aware of was a little less grip at the back end so don't take sharp bends too fast (too tight to get another pair for the rear (undriven) wheels).
I did enjoy seeing a Q5 in a ditch though :)
You can see the winter vs summer tyre performance on this 2011 BMW X3 video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqZFT1avoZY
I imagine the difference might be even more pronounced with non 4x4 though who knows
+1. I got an Octavia Scout in Nov 2009 after my 130i became a chocolate teapot in the winter. Never looked back. You soon get over the 'brand' thing, I could sell mine now on AT for what I paid for it, more if I had gone diseasal.
JC is a fan of them too, though that may put some people off.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
how about something a bit left of field.
LP 670 in the snow,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaGvl...layer_embedded
proper snow action at about 4.28.
seriously though when it snowed down here a few weeks back, I had a craving to buy a MB G wagon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INF9_...eature=related
Thumbs up for winters here on a BMW, I can't understand why people swap cars when for £400 you could become invincible*.
Term's and conditions apply, I'm not dragging you out of a ditch.
buy a second hand jeep
you comfortably get 200k miles
pricing is very sensible compared to landrover and you have another king of 4x4 brands, plus the style and the looks and you feel like a man.
if you catch my drift.
grand cherokee
cherokee-liberty
are good all rounders and family wagons, the smaller cherokee actually has more comfortable back seats and leg clearance than the grand cherokee....
the patriot, as the name suggests, is jeep for the people. roomy inside, small outside and good mpg since it can be set to use 2wd with auto 4wd just in case of difficult ground conditions.
and it looks like a jeep.
the compass is ... like, wrong
the wrangler unlimited is the ultimate cool as you can get it convertible and is the yankee alternative to a defender 130, though is harder to find second hand and is a bit of a guzzler, a bit more than the grand cherokee.
owning a jeep is a bit like owning a precista....it's fun and the car really grown on you
I dont know about your BMW, but a set of rubber for mine was at least double that without a set of winter wheels. Plus I was stuck with hateful run-flat (i.e. granite) tyres - never looked into winter tyres in the sizes and specs I needed.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
I've got the Freelander 2 and it's by far one of the best cars I've ever had. I've driven BMW's for 12 years.
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
If you want something that'll get you about just for the odd few days of snow we get, a small fwd car with an automatic gearbox and snow tyres would be a far cheaper option. Well under £5k should get you something fairly presentable.
NB. Completely unrelated, but you can get a TVR for < £10k. If you have a spare £10k floating about that is :mrgreen:
A consequence of the daft wheel sizes that manufacturers specify theses day for purely aesthetic reasons. My Alfa handles just fine on 185 65 R14.I dont know about your BMW, but a set of rubber for mine was at least double that without a set of winter wheels. Plus I was stuck with hateful run-flat (i.e. granite) tyres - never looked into winter tyres in the sizes and specs I needed.
I'll go with all that, I work in the Dales and got sick of getting stuck last year so bought a Jeep last October to deal with the winter. I wanted a tough, strong, METAL 4x4, not a pansy one with frontal plastics. Super comfy, very practical and as cheap as chips, no cash in it to lose really, the idea was to flog it springtime but I've fallen in love, best car I've ever owned, my "normal" car will be sold instead.
You don't need a full size beast mate, or the fuel bills.
I was in the same situation as you and did the research on mid 4x4's.
Rav, crb, xtrail and Landrover freelander. The Jeeps have big problems with leaking oil from to auto box and there is no Dipstick. It that goes dry it's knackerd so that's why I avoided buying in 2005. The parts are also expensive compared to Landrover which is why I went for a disco 300 v8. this was in a previous life.
The xtrail is onlynsecond to the Landrover in off road skill but it's not full time 4x4 so better on fuel. You have a switch rather than the automatic system of the rav and a much much bigger boot.
Dont buy a diesel as they have massive problems after 40000 miles.
I have a 2.5 petrol and have had her LPG converted. 5000 for an 04 car with 700000
Miles full leather etc etc. 1000 for the conversion. Now 65p a litre for fuel.
I'm really happy, and having previously owned a disco that's not an easy achievement!
Hope this helps.
J
Well then, my 97 p38 Range Rover, diesel with manual gearbox :D . All the electrics work and have continued to work for the 6K miles and 6 months I have had him so far. The only thing that has needed to be replaced was the UJ's on the front prop shaft. £90 including labour from one of the many local landie specialists. It cost me £3K to buy, the 2.5 litre BMW engine is sweet as a nut at 110K miles and gives me 30+ mpg on a run, 20 mpg around town and 26 mpg when towing.
I am a convert. Its not perfect, any old 4x4 is a truck at the end of the day but don't forget with the RR they are brilliant cruisers, very comfortable which makes long journies very relaxing.
For sure you can buy Jap but compare the secondhand values, those Landcruisers are hugely expensive secondhand and you have to question if the price difference is worth it for the supposed extra reliability and lower running costs. I certainly don't think so, especially considering that the biggest problem with LR is the rip-off dealers. The parts and servicing are vastly cheaper outside on the open market and plenty of LR specialists around.
If I didn't have a RR I just wouldn't have a 4x4.
Audi quattro estate with winter tyres. 4 x 4s (or SUVs) are not my tasts at all, I hate the dammed things and I can`t see the attraction at all. I`ll make one exception, that's the traditional Land Rover (Defender).
Audi Quattro.......4 wheel drive functionality without having to drive something pointless with a bad image....sorted :)
Paul
I live one mile up a private road which is (very) steep in parts. A RWD car, like my current Merc won't look at it when it snows, so I've had about a dozen 4wd vehicles over the years.
These have included 4 Landies, a Subaru, 2 ur quattros (great cars) an X5 a SWB Shogun etc etc
Currently SHMBO has an ML 320 on winter tyres and I've got a CRV for non-Merc days.
Best ever in the snow was the Shogun but it was pants on the road - the best all rounder was the X5 and the "nicest" was the 20v ur quattro (in tornado red - why did I sell it :? )
Current Honda "does the job" and cost me about a grand so in OP's situation I'd pick up something small and Japanese
Cheers -JP :mrgreen:
i have the Nissan X-Trail and have to say i find it exceptional in the slippy stuff
its cheap to run (2.0 ltr dci returns 35-40 mpg but i do have a tuning box fitted)
will get you where you want to go
for the price i really rate it!
i have had in the past 3 pajero's 1 subaru forester a 1964 land rover
i drive a Range Rover Vogue at work
all got their strengths & weaknesses
Going back to tyres, I also got a set of four winter tyres for my 3 series for about £400 from Kwik-Fit.
Saying that though, I have just chopped it in for a 3 year old Kia Sportage. Looked at all the other big names but for the money the Kia ticked all the boxes for me. Hopefully I'll be picking it up Saturday.
+ another 1.I'll go with all that, I work in the Dales and got sick of getting stuck last year so bought a Jeep last October to deal with the winter. I wanted a tough, strong, METAL 4x4, not a pansy one with frontal plastics. Super comfy, very practical and as cheap as chips, no cash in it to lose really, the idea was to flog it springtime but I've fallen in love, best car I've ever owned, my "normal" car will be sold instead.
I got a 2004 Grand Cherokee 2.7 crd in early November and it was flawless in the snow. Quadratrack was very useful, and all terrain tyres made it unstoppable no matter how deep the snow was.
I've run a number of Audi Allroads and think it's a great alternative to an SUV/proper 4x4. Never had any problems and it has really decent bad-weather/light off-road ability. Now have a BMW x-3 which makes a great used buy - good residuals and drives well plus it get well over 40pmg from the 2.0d. The key though as other posters have said is winter tyres. My x-3 on standard M&S tyres was pretty poor in the snow as the 235/18s are quite road orientated but the winter Bridgestones I have on it now are amazing.
I have one thing to say to you..........Queer as Folk! :lol:
X5 3.0D the only way to go :wink:
In fact mines for sale
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...99aa?logcode=p
:D
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