Reply With QuoteI have a Sugden A21a class A amp, Cyrus CD7Q player, and PMC FB1 speakers. Sounds great, and you can pick each seperate up for decent money second hand. The Sugden is made in Yorkshire and is built like a tank.
I think I am regressing...
I used to be into Hifi and Home cinema quite a bit... and have moved through the Cd stage into Mp3's and FLAC / Squeeze boxes and Spotify.
But I have a itch to go back to basics.. a decent Cd player and Amp - put in the disc and play.
So has much changed in the last few years.. any exotic kit (secondhand preferably) I should be looking out for or is it still the main firms (Naim/Linn/Arcam etc) taking all the glory.
I would quite like to get something "british" in some way.. and would rather have something which is "beautiful" to look at rather than a plain black box.
Ideas and suggestions welcome please.. not set a budget but I do not want to spend thousands - hence pre-owned would give more bang for the buck.
Thanks
Matt
I have a Sugden A21a class A amp, Cyrus CD7Q player, and PMC FB1 speakers. Sounds great, and you can pick each seperate up for decent money second hand. The Sugden is made in Yorkshire and is built like a tank.
I bought a secondhand Cyrus III amp from Ebay recently for £130. Its styling - shoebox size - is a bit marmite but I love it. It has a built in phono stage as well and they are built like tanks.
There is another recent hi-fi thread and it was mentioned that you would need to spend £1000 on a new amp to beat the sound of the Cyrus. Its ALOT of amp for not alot of dosh.
Wow, are Sugden still going? I have an old A48 in the garage, like the one at the top of this page http://www.audioconsult.dk/old%20sugden/a48.htm.Originally Posted by IanV
I really should fire it up and see if it still works. I remember it had the most amazingly powerful but accurate bass.
I'm afraid you could not describe the A48 as "beautiful" by any stretch :D
Hi there. You aren't regressing, you've just seen the error of your ways :D
About the three brands you've mentioned, Linn do not make CD players anymore, sadly (just weird half-empty boxes that "deliver" music from a hard drive - that's progress for ya :roll:). Of the other two, Arcam have a good range of spinners and amps, and the other folks, well, if you are prepared to cough up a few extra quid and join the Cult Of Naim, you'll never look back 8)
Plain black boxes usually sound best 8)
I am a bit of a Hi fi nerd and get 'What Hi Fi' on subscription to keep up with whats happening. Cyrus and Naim are still serious players and so are Linn and Arcam but it is worth picking up a copy of 'What Hi Fi' as there are various other pretenders to the throne as well. There are great bargains to be had picking up quality kit secondhand though once you know which models you want.
Good luck
There are also a few other very small British "cottage" hi-fi manufacturers who have their fans - Avondale, Croft, NVA, LFD etc.
Also worth looking at products from Creek and Rega.
The Hi-Fi magazines are OK for finding out what products to look for, but there is no substitute for listening to kit at a good dealer. I have made up my mind on what I will be buying several times based on reviews only to find that the best reviewed kit doesn't sound anything like as good as other hardware. As an example, I own a pair of speakers (Linn Ninkas) that were given 3 stars in a What Fi-Fi review, yet I demmed them next to several 5 star products (at up to double the cost) and liked them the best (my wife did, too).
Sterling advice, that 8)
Re What Hi-Fi, I'd say it isn't bad if you only want to keep up with what's new, but for the true enthusiast there are other Brit hi-fi rags out there :wink:
You could add AstinTrew to that list too, although their kit is assembled in the Far East.........
welcome back to the hifi fold. i've picked up all my kit for very good s/hand prices. have currently setup a unison research unico hybrid amp (valves/mosfets), arcam alpha 8 cd player, and rogers studio 5 spkrs. valve sound without the high replacement value.
you need to speak to flea he knows his stuff
RIAC
I have to admit I have been checking out the unison research stuff very tempting if you can find it secondhand.
I wish I had not sold a rega planet cd I had previously... loved that top loader...
Cheers
Matt
I got the bug back in the early 90s with a NAD cassette deck and 3020 amp, Dual turntable and Mission 760i speakers. At the time I thought it was a proper hi-fi.That was until an ex-colleague became a staff writer for What Hi-Fi, and I was exposed to some high-end review kit. That's when the upgrade bug really took hold and I progressed through various set ups from Denon, until I had funds for an Arcam CD and amp, and then Monitor Audio Studio 2SE speakers that cost me a whopping £720 in 1996.
Over the next few years I became a regular customer of my local branch of Sevenoaks Hi-Fi and was on first name terms with most of their staff. I reached my peak in 2001 when I spent around £4500 on a new hi-fi/home cinema system. Despite the big outlay I was still not happy and seriously considered a full Meridian system which would have cost me close to £10k. It was actually the owner of the store who talked me out of it, and gave the best piece of advice I could have had; listen to the music and not the kit.
It was at that point that I gave up worrying about conditioning plugs and interconnects and started enjoying my collection.
I still have the Arcam CD92 and A65 amp I bought then and also the Monitor Audio's. I thought about changing a few times, but never heard anything that made me want to spend the money, and have only very recently changed to HD TV and Bluray.
Matt,
If your interested I have a Marantz CD-72 in Mint condition I am about to part with, check out the reviews. They say its as good as the CD-17 for sound.
All I know is it sounds and plays beautifull.
Chris
I have a Marantz CD-63 which didn't produce the results I expected but it's not any fault with the Marantz, it's a mis-match with the amplifier. The Marantz pushes out 2 volts through the RCA interconnects and the amplifier is happier with only half this, leading to overload. I really need to sort out a pair of attenuators, does anyone have any experience with these?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I would definitely recommend Cyrus personally.
I'd build a system to allow you to switch between streaming and CD (this might be as simple as buying a cd player depending on the setup you have/have in mind) as you'll soon tire of continiously changing CDs...believe me lol.
That way you can stream if you're just in a track flicking mood, or for more serious listening it's just a case of switching input for your select CDs.
Just my opinion though from what I found.
Thanks for the advice guys..
Just to say I have streaming in place already via a Squeezebox in the front room into the AV kit (Lexicon Amp and Anthony Gallo Speakers) - was just considering a nice standalone system - its probably overkill tbh but its nice to have a dedicated set of electronics :)
I use a squeezebox touch into the built-in Dac of my Naim Supernait, it works very well and sounds comparable (IMHO) to a high-end CD player. I also use the Supernait to power the front speakers in my AV system, the amp has a dedicated AV mode, which is Unity Gain and bypasses the volume and balance controls. This gives me the best of both worlds.
I have fond memories of listening to my rig which included an Onix OA21 amp with a Quad CD66. I think I had some TDL speakers at the time, they let the side down a bit!
Not had cause to use them but seems to be some infor here:I have a Marantz CD-63 which didn't produce the results I expected but it's not any fault with the Marantz, it's a mis-match with the amplifier. The Marantz pushes out 2 volts through the RCA interconnects and the amplifier is happier with only half this, leading to overload. I really need to sort out a pair of attenuators, does anyone have any experience with these?
Eddie
http://www.whathifi.com/search/apacheso ... ttenuators
hth
Hmm Hifi, about the most highly contested, snobbish, opinonated areas you'll find outside of Apple v Android or politics really it is a minefield out there.
For the record here is what i did have and what i now have:
DID
Linn Classik Movie(still the best 'all in one' in my humble).
Linn Classik Komponent speakers
These were and upgrade from a Classik and Castle Conway 3 speakers as although i loved the Conways i wanted surround and the Conways were huge if highly capable and the Classik had to changed for movie playing obviously.
Now
PS3 for my blu-ray needs
Yamaha YSP-4100 soundbar
BK Gemini II sub.
Bar the fcuk off size of the Yamaha the rest is compact and bijou which is what i need for the space retraints i now have.
Yes, many years ago I bought a Meridian 206 (still got - in the loft!) and used it through my original Naim NAIT (ditto!). Due to a similar mismatch, I had Chord Co. make me up a custom attenuated RCA to DIN lead that cost a fair bit then, and is pretty astronomical now. Sadly I lost the lead during a divorce process, so if I were to use this setup again, I would just have to be careful with the gain. The attenuators did affect the sound, cutting the treble to a degree, though in my case the outcome was fairly positive, as the treble was searing after being used to my Rega Planar (also in loft...) The final solution was to buy a Linn amp, much more my scene, now sadly gone :cry:
I was the same.
I have a Cambridge Audio one+
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=534
The sound quality for the type of system that it is (mini/all in one) is fantastic. The only draw back, and it is a big one, is the usability. Navigating through the inputs is extremely slow and clumsy. It is frustrating.
You can find the RCA to 5-pin DIN attenuator on eBay for £10.99. Time to get the good stuff out of the loft.Yes, many years ago I bought a Meridian 206 (still got - in the loft!) and used it through my original Naim NAIT (ditto!). Due to a similar mismatch, I had Chord Co. make me up a custom attenuated RCA to DIN lead that cost a fair bit then, and is pretty astronomical now. Sadly I lost the lead during a divorce process, so if I were to use this setup again, I would just have to be careful with the gain. The attenuators did affect the sound, cutting the treble to a degree, though in my case the outcome was fairly positive, as the treble was searing after being used to my Rega Planar (also in loft...) The final solution was to buy a Linn amp, much more my scene, now sadly gone :cry:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RCA-skts-5p-DIN-a ... 588689cc6d
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Ahh, thanks. Do they also manufacture localised forcefields to keep inquisitive babies and young children from 'testing' the knobs and switches?
My exposure kit does rather nicely thank you; great VFM, but I have a hankering for some of NVA's gear after listening to it; sweet 8)
Well I originally had the Marantz CD-63B - thats now gone in the loft
(a Philips CD100 just different badge)
the Marantz CD-72 is just too wide for where my HiFi setup in the room is all
not enough shelf space and i am now using a Philips CD104
The setup with the CD104 above:-
Its all going through a TEAC Reference A-H500i AMP
Nakamichi Dragon Tape Deck
Heybrook TT2 turntable (Linn arm - Dynavector High output 20A2 cartridge)
Radian Research 12-3 Speakers
Never experienced any miss match problems like Eddie but having now looked it up on the web it does seem that some AMP's can have problems controlling them.
Good Luck with your search Matt
Well the research has begun... I and sure the chase is better than the buying... But currently I am looking into bel canto and unison research gear.. Secondhand or exdemo of course...
Tempted by the s300iu amp which has the built in USB Dac built in and it's very neat like the Cyrus amps in the size department :)
Also been looking at the unison research cd cd player... Looks gorgeous and also has a USB input to use the Dac.....
And compared to watches it all looks remarkably cheap :)
Cheers
Matt
I started with Cyrus amps donkeys years ago and over the the years I have expanded and upgraded the system because they keep to the same size, colour and style of boxes so you can mix 20 year old stuff with the modern stuff.
It is made in the UK and repaired and upgraded in the UK and they have been excellent with their dealings with me.
I'm using ATC SCM40's which I picked 2nd hand up for £1300 and I now have a system (10 boxes) that I am happy with
Hi-Fi is a minefield and addictive with so much choice and all my stuff has been bought used.
In years gone by I have spent a lot of time and money listening to stuff at dealers and it not quite being the same at home. So now I have bought at a price which I can get back if I don't like it.
The SCM40's sounded rubbish when I listened to them through the sellers system which surprised me and thankfully sounded a lot better in my room when I got them home!
There is a lot of bollocks talked about how one interconnect sounds better than another when in reality the time it takes to change them round makes it difficult to tell the difference..... if there is any.....
I just use well made cables from someone I know... Have a look at mark grant cables...
All my av stuff is wired up with his gear...
You wouldn't happen to know if Mark will be doing the balanced version of his interconnect any time soon, would you? I'd really like to try some but it says "sold out till I make some more" and he's not answering emails :(
And as for amps: try out Croft. It is amazingly good, has excellent phonostages, discrete looks and reasonable power. Handmade (hardwired) by the man himself in England. Cheaper than the stuff you are looking at now but might well be better :)
Cheers,
Mabuse
Sorry Mabuse - I have no idea on the balanced stuff...
Just a quick update.. got a lovely belcanto amp/cd set coming... plus looking at DACS again for my PC setup... and compared to the watch hobby it all seems very reasonable :)
No problem Matt, just figured I'd ask :)
Enjoy the Bel Canto - haven't heard it play but it looks nice.
Cheers,
Mabuse
I've been through quite a range of Hifi over the years. Started in my teens with kenwood 3020 amp, maranta cd52 and mission 731 speakers. Then went through a Cyrus phase (iii amp, dad7 top loading cd player, etc), then bought a serious linn outfit (ikemi cd, kairn pro pre and klout power amp, katan speakers). Then on to naim for a brief while.
But now I'm back with linn: majik DS-I streamer/pre-amp, akurate 4200 power amp, aktiv cards and katan speakers. The whole network player streaming lossless FLAC files from a NAS hard drive took me a while to get into, but I am now a total convert. My CDs are merely used as a back-up in case of disaster...
Of course as with all these things it's a slippery slope... Upgrades galore. :lol:
I'm going in the opposite direction and want to move from barely used Linn stuff to streaming based, probably Sonos, I know it won't sound as good but I will listen to more music and would rather listen to 10 times as much music at 80/90% of the quality.
Closer to topic, my Dad has some very good AVI stuff, similar in size to Mission but a definate step up in quality. British designed and built (Stroud, Glos) I think
My 10 pennies worth:
Use anything you like to generate the bitstream, low cost CD player, and feed it into 2nd hand Meridian processor - 565, 568 from 200ukp up to about 450ukp, dependent on how much bit depth you would like.
You get superlative engineering and a beautiful transition between the digital and analog worlds.
Then include some amps of your choice.
And if you feel like adding a third speaker, you can enjoy the very pleasing Meridian Tri-field presentation.
Way hay. Hifi is back. :)
I have a Quad 34 and 606. :) Also Musical Fidelity. Some AE and Kef's.
Too much equipment and no listening time.
ish
I am now running in my mini system a full Bel Canto setup..
sounds great and I admit looks fantastic on the shelf..
I bet that sounds fab. I visited Linn a couple of weeks ago and the demo they gave was of whatever bits the chap could nick from R&D (they were running dealer training at the same time so most of the main kit was already in use). So we had a mix of Akurate DS, Majik power amps running fully active and their new-ish Isobarik speakers. It sounded awesome.
I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I just need to get my NAS box working again and get a streamer of some kind. It might "slum it" with Sonos to begin with, but something like a Linn system will be rather handy.
Partnered with some good speakers streaming from Spotify can sound surprisingly good, through a Z120. I would put something from the new KEF Q range with that amplifier. I often use a Z90 through an Arcam A38 via an Arcam DACkw from the optical out - superb :)
Rod
I have a Marantz CD-63 which didn't produce the results I expected but it's not any fault with the Marantz, it's a mis-match with the amplifier. The Marantz pushes out 2 volts through the RCA interconnects and the amplifier is happier with only half this, leading to overload. I really need to sort out a pair of attenuators, does anyone have any experience with these?
Eddie
Depending on your fondness for wielding a soldering iron, you could construct a passive pre-amp [ i.e. a suitably housed stepped attenuator , perhaps with an added buffer stage] has the potential to out perform some every expensive and more complex active preamps.
As hi-fi goes it's quite a cheap option to try out something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dale-23-St...#ht_903wt_1165
mounted in a Maplin metal box, with in and out pairs of phono connectors and some good quality screened audio cable, will let you decide if you
like the passive attenuator approach.
Total cost around 30/40ukp all in.
Otherwise DACT supply similar but higher quality stepped attenuator components
http://www.audiocominternational.com...ator-p-39.html
If the input of the rest of your system is of a lower impedance type, you may find some benefit in adding a unity gain buffer stage between the
attenuator and the amplifier.
You could make a fixed gain pad using just resistors for an even cheaper solution.
http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/
But the extra cost for the stepped attenuator gives you a device which you can then use between any bits of kit you fancy.
Perhaps it is worth pointing out that digital volume controls are, normally, vastly inferior to analogue ones.
Using an 8-bit system as an example - min volume is at 0, max volume is at 255.
To half the voltage level, a 3dB drop in sound below maximum ouput, the digital bitstream is truncated at 7 bits, so now we get 0-128,
6db below max output is 6 bits, giving 0-64 and so on.
Play your system at only 12dB [ 2dB is the smallest difference a human ear can detect ] below maximum volume and your lovely 16 bit CD is reduced to only 12 bits of resolution.
Analogue volume controls have no effect on bit depth, being, in effect, able to cope with fractional parts of bits that a digital system cannot.
So the best results are normally obtained by running the digital part of the system, the PC or SqueezeBox etc, at max volume and then applying analogue attenuation later in the signal path.
Some advanced systems include digitally controlled analogue attenuators to achieve the same result.
These transports sound amazing but unfortunately not cheap!
http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/
My God, I can't believe a 568 can be had for £450!
Doesn't seem like five minutes ago I paid over £3k for one.
I suspect it would be very difficult to better for the money, although if that's how prices have fallen I'd be tempted to partner it with a 500 CD Transport.
Partnered with some good speakers streaming from Spotify can sound surprisingly good, through a Z120. I would put something from the new KEF Q range with that amplifier. I often use a Z90 through an Arcam A38 via an Arcam DACkw from the optical out - superb :)
Rod
Sounds promising, never been a fan of the KEF sound, not sure but just not for me. Happy to go with reviews as start point for electronics but always test as many speakers as possible and see what sound I like. Last but were some Monitor Audio S5 which I loved far more than more expensive Tannoy, AE, KEF or Regas I also tried.
I'm new to this streaming stuff. I like it. Wanting an automatic backup/cloud NAS type thingie, I decided to throw in a music server. I wish I had done this earlier. It is definitely not "HiFi", but more like music bottom feeder. However, I was in the shed last night doing some lathe work, and had my eee pc streaming music (flac) from the server to my shed speakers (Labtec of some sort) and it was great. Luckily, the wireless is just within range.
Best wishes,
Bob
My God, I can't believe a 568 can be had for £450!
Doesn't seem like five minutes ago I paid over £3k for one.
I suspect it would be very difficult to better for the money, although if that's how prices have fallen I'd be tempted to partner it with a 500 CD Transport.
Indeed, excellent value for money, I have one sitting on my shelf :)
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