Reply With QuoteAnd as we know, you crash at the Ring and you pays the damage! Not good for whoever caused it as they will be needing to find £130K or so to fund it.
There are reports on PH of an eight-car pile-up at the 'Ring yesterday involving a rented Corvette and both 'Ring Taxis. There are some British cars in there:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... =2011-10-3
Ouch!
"A man of little significance"
And as we know, you crash at the Ring and you pays the damage! Not good for whoever caused it as they will be needing to find £130K or so to fund it.
Blimey! Good reason for me to continue to just drive on the PLaystation - couldn't face those levels of costs.
Would absolutely love to do a road trip incorporating the ring but the difficulty in finding insurance and the risks involved certainly mean it wont be happening in the near future. I feel like I would constantly be watching for other drivers!
Trust me, you do. I was there last Saturday. :wink:Originally Posted by deex
Indeed, I took my time. No point in be silly just for a fast time.Trust me, you do. I was there last Saturday. :wink:
Very Jealous, What cars did you do it in if you dont mind me asking?
Be interested to know a bit more about how the insurance works for the ring. Could anyone who's done it before shed some light and indicate how much we are talking about on a daily basis (appreciate this will vary a lot depending on age/car etc)?
I once rented a 997 for 24 hours from Avis at Frankfurt airport, drove there and did a few laps. Uninsured.
"A man of little significance"
My favourite Nurburgring video - Geordies in a van (NSFW due to lots of swearing!)
Would love to go around there but to be honest it looks absolutely insane on public days.
I believe you have to have special "race" insurance, however I do not know anyone who have drive the Ring with insurance. I do however know a couple of folks how have had "accidents" about 5 miles from the ring :wink: and were able to claim.
Providing you can drive off the track, I am sure some people will arrange to have an accident a bit later. The problem is when you have an accident on the ring, the police are called or you cannot move your car - in which case not a chance of an insurance job and if it involves anyone else also very unlikely to get help from the insurance company. Hence alot of accidents on the Ring are effectively knock for knock irrespective of who caused it.
When I took my Porker around it I was like Driving Miss Daisy around the twisties and only gave it the beans on the straight. The Cars were ok. It was the coaches, mini-business and bikers you really had to watch out for.
The Vette driver, would have been better off reporting it stolen before he got on the track as he really is now in the shit.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
You were VERY lucky not to have a mishap. Would have been EXPENSIVE!! :D
I've corrected myself!You were VERY lucky not to have a mishap. Would have been EXPENSIVE!! :D
"A man of little significance"
You don't need special race insurance, just normal road insurance.
I have been many times in my Westfield but the last few trips have been in an old hot hatch. There's a lot less stress involved and it's just as much fun (more actually, overtaking many 'faster' cars in a GTi). Even if you're a good careful driver it's really easy to get taken out by another driver as appears to be the case here. I once saw a GT3 that was taken out by Golf GTi. Could have been the start of a long and protracted process for the Porsche driver.
UK road insurance covers you regardless of what your insurer says. Obviously it won't cover your own car if they say no but they have to meet 3rd party claims:
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburg ... rance.html
how does this compare to le mans track ?
I sat for about an hour in the stand watching a public track day this summer and saw 2 porsches wipe each other out and have to be craned off the track.
Nordschleife is bigger. 13 mile lap. 78 corners depending how you define a corner. Motorcyclists die here on a regular basis. Cars crash heavily enough to close the track every couple of hours on a busy weekend.
sounds far more interesting than what I wathced then. Not for the faint hearted.Nordschleife is bigger. 13 mile lap. 78 corners depending how you define a corner. Motorcyclists die here on a regular basis. Cars crash heavily enough to close the track every couple of hours on a busy weekend.
You would have been sat at the closed off Le Mans track, i.e. the pit straight to the Dunlop Bridge section used in the 24 Hour race, joined to the Bugatti circuit which takes you round the back of the pits and paddock and back onto the pit straight again. It's the equivalent of the modern Grand Prix track which was tacked onto the Nordschleife almost 30 years ago. The Green Hell itself hasn't been blighted with run-off areas or been artificially slowed, it's in a heavily wooded area on some big hills, the weather is often completely different on different stretches of track, it's open for public access a lot of the time and you'll see 'Ring specialists (regulars, the 'Ring Taxi and so on) mixing it with novices, busses, motorbikes and so on. It takes a long time to learn the track and is therefore a completely different prospect to a modern race track with safety as it's main concern.sounds far more interesting than what I wathced then. Not for the faint hearted.Nordschleife is bigger. 13 mile lap. 78 corners depending how you define a corner. Motorcyclists die here on a regular basis. Cars crash heavily enough to close the track every couple of hours on a busy weekend.
"A man of little significance"
Most insurance companies have a disclaimer in the small print. Not covered on " a de-restricted toll road" or similar. Of which the Nurburgring is one.
I doubt any standard insurance policy will cover you?
Agreed. I would be amazed if any company ever paid out for a crash at The Ring
We sat in a briefing two weekends ago and putting the damage to the cars to one side you are also responsible for:
- damage/injury caused by an unreported oil spill
- Repairs, clear up and materials for damage to Armco (average bill £3000)
Which also includes loss of income for the amount of time the track is closed.
I've been there three times and pootled round (one day I'll take up Frank Stippler on his offer of a passenger ride!). The place is fantastic but I'd only want to go back in something like my MX5 - basically something light on fuel, tyres and brakes and replacement value - and spend a couple of days there on a closed track day. In fact if I wasn't thinking of selling my 924S track car it would be ideal, aside form the fuel cost (compared to the MX), with its top speed of about 140 and weight of around 1100kg. The bigger the car the higher the cost, and you need to know how to drive your car on track before you even think of having a go at driving the Ring fast. Public days are a lottery and you have to be constantly aware of what's going on around you. I've done a few UK track days, mostly at Bedford, and for the foreseeable future I'm going to stick to that. Nothing to hit, cheap, well organised etc. I'd only go back to the Ring if I had the time and money to try to do it properly.
But everyone should go there at least once, the place is fantastic. I still have daydreams of winning the lottery and building something similar, perhaps only five miles long, somewhere nice and remote and hilly.
"A man of little significance"
True, most UK insurers will cover any 3rd party claims, however they can then attempt to recover any such costs from you.
Just saw the video of the roadworks on the track right before the smash.
Crazy stuff, one little sign and a couple of cones before the corner. I'm not surprised something happened.
Wouldn't like to be picking pieces of my car up off the tarmac and then getting a nice bill for a few metres of armco on top of it.
Just had my renewal through and specifically states I'm not covered at the Nurburgring :cry:
Would love to go there one day, but definitely with insurance!
Base fee for attendance of armco truck: €150
• Removing damaged armco: €10/metre (x2 or x3 or x4 for multiple-height sections)
• Replacement armco: €31/metre (x2 or x3 for double/triple height)
• Removing damaged armco posts: €5.10 each
• Replacing armco post: €39 each
• Safety car attendance: €82 per 30 mins (car + 2 people)
• Circuit closure: €1,350 per hour
• Recovery truck: €190 (inc VAT)
• Hospital stay & air ambulance: Let's just say, do NOT go there without travel insurance! (Though a European Health Card - which replaced the E111 - may cover the hospital bit.)
Everything except the recovery truck is then subject to 19% VAT.
sounds far more interesting than what I wathced then. Not for the faint hearted.Nordschleife is bigger. 13 mile lap. 78 corners depending how you define a corner. Motorcyclists die here on a regular basis. Cars crash heavily enough to close the track every couple of hours on a busy weekend.
Certainly not, you also need the right kit. When I took the Porsche, and even driving like Miss Daisy, brakes get very hot and can cause the brake fluid to boil (hence you need racing pads and fluid) fuel consumption is horrible (hence make just to have enough), you need to make sure your pressures are spot on and with (air colled Porsches) ensure you have enough oil (I know people would have gone through a couple of litres during the day). Good brakes and tires are a must. Also the "run off" at some corners is a couple of metres of grass, then the arnco and then the trees, a lot of the corners are blind so you cannot see round the bend until it to late. Also with a Porsche you do not want to have to break/lift on the apex, so making sure you entries into the corner is critical - difficult if you do not know the track or some arse in front of you has made a mistake.
If you do not want to take your own car and want the full Monty (with considerable less risk) then take one of the Ring Taxis (currently modded BMW M5) which are driven by some real experts - but take a change of pants with you (and poss a sick bag). It sure beats any roller coaster I have every been on - cost about £50 for 9 minutes of "OMG", "FM", "Holy crap", "I have my eyes closed".
http://jalopnik.com/5216411/faszinat...o-keep-it-real
RUF CTR Yellowbird - 8.05 minutes achieved in 1987. Mind blowing :shock:
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Bedford: £0Just had my renewal through and specifically states I'm not covered at the Nurburgring :cry:
Would love to go there one day, but definitely with insurance!
Base fee for attendance of armco truck: €150
• Removing damaged armco: €10/metre (x2 or x3 or x4 for multiple-height sections)
• Replacement armco: €31/metre (x2 or x3 for double/triple height)
• Removing damaged armco posts: €5.10 each
• Replacing armco post: €39 each
• Safety car attendance: €82 per 30 mins (car + 2 people)
• Circuit closure: €1,350 per hour
• Recovery truck: €190 (inc VAT)
• Hospital stay & air ambulance: Let's just say, do NOT go there without travel insurance! (Though a European Health Card - which replaced the E111 - may cover the hospital bit.)
Everything except the recovery truck is then subject to 19% VAT.
That's the track day track, not the town centre, for those of us on a budget. Incidentally, Mazda On Track (MOT) do really cheap track days. The ones at the established circuits are not only cheap, they are marshalled and run by the circuits themselves.
http://www.mazdaontrack.co.uk/
I wouldn't go to another of their days where they organise and marshal it themselves.
Where's that superb film of two blokes in a BMW pulling onto the (wet) Ring and immediately spinning into the Armco?
"A man of little significance"
There was a video somewhere of a BMW I think pulling out from pits and hitting an Evo almost straight away, can't find it though. See below for some crazy driving back in the 70s :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZb7sbRFCF0
that was at Spa which is included in this little track day compliation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BECharVgjk0
That was it, my bad couldn't remember for sure. BMW driver must have been pleased.. :shock:
that was at Spa which is included in this little track day compliation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BECharVgjk0
This is the real issue. The circuit is used for racing, private track days, tuition sessions, industry pool testing and is sometime open to the public for tourist driving - touristenfahrten. During touristenfahrten (TF) the circuit is treated as a public one way toll road, the German equivalent of the road traffic act applies and third party insurance at least is mandatory. Since it is in Europe and the RTA applies your insurer must, by law, meet any third party claim. However (and it is a big however) the UK insurance ombudsman has ruled that it is a prepared course and therefore your insurer is within their rights to a) exclude first party cover; and b) recover any third party payout from you.True, most UK insurers will cover any 3rd party claims, however they can then attempt to recover any such costs from you.
I personally have been many times and done both TF and closed track days (where the insurance situation is quite different). I would never do TF without confirmed insurance cover in writing. This is becoming almost impossible to get for UK drivers and so closed track days are probably the way forward.
And as an aside to a couple of points made earlier, they no longer charge for circuit closure time; and the RIng Taxi is an M3 this year.
A lap of the Nurburing must be on everyones bucket list? and somewhere near the top!
And
That's what I would have said (I used to work in motor insurance) before I read that link, but I'm convinced. It's a public toll road (apart from on track days), which is de-restricted. There are plenty of other roads in continental Europe which charge tolls or have no speed limit.True, most UK insurers will cover any 3rd party claims, however they can then attempt to recover any such costs from you.
I've driven a few tracks in a variety of cars but the prospect of doing the 'ring scares me! Average of 12 deaths a year (and the figures only apply to people who actually die on the tarmac, if you die in hospital you aren't a statistic).
Pretty much all those fatalities are bikers. Up until last week there hadn't been a car driver/passenger fatality for about 5 years.
Been there.
Seen horrid crashes.
Quite happy now to live without it.
Accidents happen all the time there. I went about 5 years ago in a rented Ferrari 360. I ended up racing another Brit in a 911 round. After a few laps, things got a little silly until I took one corner too fast, and made it round by luck and corrective lock guesswork. The guy in the 911 wasn't so lucky and hit the barrier hard! His car was ruined. Once I checked he was ok, I called it a day. Thankful to have not done the same.
Once in a lifetime kind of experience, but not the place for a hot lap, unless you know the track and have some skill.
There were some real numbnuts in that track day crash video, tbh its in cases like that I feel safer in a race at least the drivers typically have some level of car control ability.
Some specialist car insurers provide inclusive track day cover, mine includes all of the UK, France and Spa but specifcally excludes the ring.
Track day cover isn't much use for TF though, even if it did cover the 'ring (for track days).
There were some absolute howlers - felt sorry only for the Cossie drivers - the rest pretty much ran out of talent and didn't realise it in some cases!
Modern fighter jets are unstable in level flight. It's obviously not a new concept.
That could explain a lot I guess though there was a recentish(maybe within the past two years) thread on Pistonheads about a guy and his passenger killed in an upturned and aflame 360 Modena. Was quite harrowing reading as I remembered his posts in the run up to going.Pretty much all those fatalities are bikers. Up until last week there hadn't been a car driver/passenger fatality for about 5 years.
Nice 964 by the way.
Obviously it doesn't change the tragedy but that was a long time ago. Car fatalities on TF are extremely rare.That could explain a lot I guess though there was a recentish(maybe within the past two years) thread on Pistonheads about a guy and his passenger killed in an upturned and aflame 360 Modena. Was quite harrowing reading as I remembered his posts in the run up to going.Pretty much all those fatalities are bikers. Up until last week there hadn't been a car driver/passenger fatality for about 5 years.
Jeez. It's the best track in the world.
Go with a correctly set up car (Andy if your boiling brake fluid driving like miss daisy in a Porsche then youve got a problem!) don't try and drive beyond your ability, be aware of what is ahead of you and what is behind (it's even one way!!) and you will have a great time.
Yes there are some occasional 'idiots' but there are far more of them on normal roads and far more deaths also. Car related are few and far between on the Ring.
I can recommend going on early in the day or very late when it's quieter. If you go on mid day on a sunny Sunday it gets very busy.
If you go on when it's raining or has just been raining and your not on wets your an idiot.
But more importantly enjoy the freedom that we still have it and can use it. Everything of any fun is slowly being taken away from us....adults should be able to make adult decisions.
If you do go you're in for a treat. The roads around the Ring in that part of Northern Germany for many many miles in every direction are fantastic!! And they are free.... :)
Here's a video of the crash, forward to 9:40. As the driver is pulling away you can see the Ring Taxi plough into the back of the group. It seems the repair people just put cones across most of the track just after a fast corner and expected people to cope with it, which predictably they didn't
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXTXGY1s ... _embedded#!
"A man of little significance"
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