Reply With QuoteHave you compared them with non budget tyres?.Originally Posted by Inigo
Michelin Pilotes have never let me down in any conditions, including on wet muck haul roads, shared with 78tonne dumptrucks.
This sounds pretty good from a wear rate pov.
Have you compared them with non budget tyres?.
Michelin Pilotes have never let me down in any conditions, including on wet muck haul roads, shared with 78tonne dumptrucks.
I have never tried winter tyres so don't know whether they are better than AWD or not but having bought an A8 quattro just prior to last bad stuff I can honestly say it went through 6" of snow without problem. It helps that the suspension has a "lift" setting so you can clear the stuff left in the middle of the road by the proper 4X4's.
My Dad has the 4wd version of the Qashqai which is also excellent in snow.
My Wife has my old CLK and when it snows that stays put !.
Digger
I have Michelin Pilot Sports on my 330i for summer and pretty cheap Kumho winter tyres for winter, I can assure you the winter tyres are better by a country mile when the temperature is low and the conditions icy/snowy/wet.Have you compared them with non budget tyres?.
Michelin Pilotes have never let me down in any conditions, including on wet muck haul roads, shared with 78tonne dumptrucks.
Try finding someone who has tried winter tyres and doesn't rate them! They are simply the proper tool for the job of driving when the temperature is below 7 degrees centigrade.
Have read the thread with interest as i live out in the sticks and the last 2 winters have been rough. Ist year had a Subaru Outback and a 6 series, the 6 series didnt travel far from quite a few weeks!!!! in the 2009-2010 winter it was dreadful and frankly dangerous on our roads. The Outback was a Godsend and never put a foot wrong and all this on barely legal tyres which i didnt realise until the snow went. The AWD Subarus are a great tool.
I changed the 6 series for a Lexus RX350 just before the bad winter 2010-2011 and it was great, although thats not saying much when compared to the BM. I now no longer have the Outback and was thinking of getting a rwd of some description but the thought of the winter in a rwd was putting me off, maybe winter tyres are the answer.
So as a quick resume am i right in thinking.....................
Winter tyres - deeper more aggressive thread which in itself takes a better "bite" in bad road conditions coupled with a different rubber compound mix which is a) more plyable thus helping the aggressive tread to grip and b) the compound works better at lower temperatures (-7) which again is presumably down to the compound not "hardening" in lower temps as "summer" tyres would (this is also the reason winter tyres have a lower speed rating?)
Snow tyres - have "studs" in them and are only for extreme snow / ice conditions only?
Yes - it is not just the softer rubber but the composition of it which causes it to produce grip even on snow and ice, even if you take away the other factors. The thread blocks are also separated into smaller wavy lamelles which are upright when the tyre is rolling, but then deflect (and interlock) when force is applied exposing their edges to the road, turning the tyre surface into a multitude of serrated edges. This works particularly well on front wheel drive cars, as the constant pull of the engine sharpens the lamelles in a way that makes them particularly effective when breaking. On packed snow they can give you impressive deceleration and control.
The tyres with studs in them are for extreme circumstances only, solid ice for example. You don't need those (unless you're living in the Alps), they are special things with a very low speed rating, the studs wear quickly unless you really drive on snow and ice, and you're tearing the road up with them. Just get standard winter tyres.
Not strictly true, as you can get tyres with different lengths studs, from full on spikes to almost pop rivet style heads.
I tried some rivet head style ones in Norway and even on bare tarmac with no snow they were fine and durable up to ~80mph. Yes they'd be massive overkill though a UK winter but they aren't just for extreme circumstances.
I meant the rivet style head spikes - others you can't even use legally. They would be overkill everywhere except places with about half a year of solid snow on the roads, or if living on a hill. Most people using them here live in remote hilly areas and would not be able to reach their homes at all without them. They have to put a sticker on the car indicating that studded tyres are being used, they are not allowed to drive above a certain speed and IIRC they are not allowed on the motorways. Those things are also extremely noisy on tarmac, you can hear the hiss and rattle very far. I would not want to use them unless I absolutely had to.Not strictly true, as you can get tyres with different lengths studs, from full on spikes to almost pop rivet style heads.
I tried some rivet head style ones in Norway and even on bare tarmac with no snow they were fine and durable up to ~80mph. Yes they'd be massive overkill though a UK winter but they aren't just for extreme circumstances.
I take it that you RWD fans have already tried the "50kg bag of gravel in the boot" to see if grip is improved?
It worked a treat on the old Mk1 &2 Escorts and Mk 1-5 Cortinas & Sierra
was in Kwik Fit today getting new rears fitted (must have laid down too much rubber on my last trip through Sandbach) and they have a tyre hotel service. they will keep hold of your normal tyres while you run with winters, then you can book to have them swapped back on again come spring.
not usually a fan of KF, but they gave me a good price. no doubt there's a hotel fee + refit valve/balance/inflation fee, but potentially good if your garage is already full of mud tyres for your land rover like mine is :)
Yes - it is not just the softer rubber but the composition of it which causes it to produce grip even on snow and ice, even if you take away the other factors. The thread blocks are also separated into smaller wavy lamelles which are upright when the tyre is rolling, but then deflect (and interlock) when force is applied exposing their edges to the road, turning the tyre surface into a multitude of serrated edges. This works particularly well on front wheel drive cars, as the constant pull of the engine sharpens the lamelles in a way that makes them particularly effective when breaking. On packed snow they can give you impressive deceleration and control.
Thats brilliantly explained and i now have an idea of how these actually work, thank you very much :thumbleft:
Anyone tried 'budget' winter tyres - and what are winter tyres really like when the air temp is 10degrees plus (and finally) does a long motorway trip murder them?
Want to get a set for the front of my van to drive to the alps for skiing then to use in winter so I can keep working, but wondering if the drive to the alps will kill them?
You'll be fine, most folks manage 3-4 seasons out of a set change over late Oct - Early Nov & back mid March.
Just ordered a set for my Alps trip. via mytyres.co.uk
I have a set being fitted by my local place on Saturday. I have a BMW 1 series, which was just embarrassingly crap in last years snow. £750 gets some used rims, 4 tyres (not worth getting runflat winters, I'll just keep one of my summer tyres in the boot with a wheelbrace and a jack), and storage over the winter. I believe they're finding me a jack and a wheelbrace too.
From what I've heard and read, if one can afford them it's a no-brainer.
They are fine for motorway, in summer as well - read other comments above.
However, DO NOT put winter tyres only on the driven wheels!!! No way! That's a recipe for an accident. With winter tyres on the front the rears would let go much earlier than the front ones, you 'd have no chance in hell to control that, nobody could. You also would have no idea that you are driving too fast until you're in a ditch or neatly folded into the front of a lorry. Winter tyres are not a means to improve traction (though they do as well), they're primarily meant to allow you to control the car better in icy conditions. Either buy a full set or buy nothing at all. Driving with winter tyres on front wheels only would be completely stupid, you'd be a menace to yourself and anyone else on the road. Seriously, don't - you'll kill yourself.
There are two types of budget tyres - first are the cheap asian ones which are only just slightly better than no tyres at all, and the second are "refitted" old tyres - which are quite dangerous, as they are really old used tyres which have had a new tread glued on. The latter are quite likely to blow out on motorways.
You don't need either of those, there are enough good enough cheap winter tyres. Go to a respectable tyre dealer and ask for cheap winter tyres, FOUR of them, or don't buy any at all.
RWD with winter tyres, for sure. I have an old Porshe 928 - rear-drive, old-skool auto 'box, no driver aids but a primitive electronic limited-slip diff and ABS and a big, torquey engine Last winter I bought a set of Nokian WR-G2s for it, about £75 a corner from mytyres, and they were great. It became my vehicle of choice for use in the snow as I live in a hilly part of London and the local council (the Democratic Revolutionary Government of the People's Republic of Lewisham) apparently only had 10kg of grit in the whole borough!
As others have said, the winter tyres don't just make it easier to get going: they make it easier (or "possible") to stop, turn and generally control the car, too. Driving up north I was the only car able to maintain a reasonable speed on the motorway, by using the slushy, un-ploughed lane 3.
The only drawback I can report is that the car usually has very immediate steering, and the mch softer rubber of winter tyres introduces a bit of "squish", which feels slightly unusual. But I really am nitpicking: if you can, you really should try proper winter tyres.
I agree, and if you have a look at the Kwik-Fit website, they will only sell and fit winter tyres where all the tyres, (excluding the spare), will be winter tyres.They are fine for motorway, in summer as well - read other comments above.
However, DO NOT put winter tyres only on the driven wheels!!! No way! That's a recipe for an accident. With winter tyres on the front the rears would let go much earlier than the front ones, you 'd have no chance in hell to control that, nobody could. You also would have no idea that you are driving too fast until you're in a ditch or neatly folded into the front of a lorry. Winter tyres are not a means to improve traction (though they do as well), they're primarily meant to allow you to control the car better in icy conditions. Either buy a full set or buy nothing at all. Driving with winter tyres on front wheels only would be completely stupid, you'd be a menace to yourself and anyone else on the road. Seriously, don't - you'll kill yourself.
There are two types of budget tyres - first are the cheap asian ones which are only just slightly better than no tyres at all, and the second are "refitted" old tyres - which are quite dangerous, as they are really old used tyres which have had a new tread glued on. The latter are quite likely to blow out on motorways.
You don't need either of those, there are enough good enough cheap winter tyres. Go to a respectable tyre dealer and ask for cheap winter tyres, FOUR of them, or don't buy any at all.
Thanks for that. Should have mentioned I'm in the garage trade anyway so I'll be doing the fitting and balancing and am aware of the difference between a remould/ retread and a cheap tyre. Weighing up the pros and cons at the moment. My a4 1.8T quattro went everywhere I needed it to last year on worn (not illegal) summer tyres - even in all the snow. I now have an impreza turbo wagon as well as the van so weighing up the options. My missus's a3 (non quattro) was also fine on summer tyres for both of the last 2 winters. However I know the value of winter tyres in the Alps (have been there for many years in hire cars/ 4x4's, and a mate runs an airport xfer company out there) so thinking that if we have another bad winter the benefits can be used here as well (if they are not dead after 1500 motorway miles!)They are fine for motorway, in summer as well - read other comments above.
However, DO NOT put winter tyres only on the driven wheels!!! No way! That's a recipe for an accident. With winter tyres on the front the rears would let go much earlier than the front ones, you 'd have no chance in hell to control that, nobody could. You also would have no idea that you are driving too fast until you're in a ditch or neatly folded into the front of a lorry. Winter tyres are not a means to improve traction (though they do as well), they're primarily meant to allow you to control the car better in icy conditions. Either buy a full set or buy nothing at all. Driving with winter tyres on front wheels only would be completely stupid, you'd be a menace to yourself and anyone else on the road. Seriously, don't - you'll kill yourself.
There are two types of budget tyres - first are the cheap asian ones which are only just slightly better than no tyres at all, and the second are "refitted" old tyres - which are quite dangerous, as they are really old used tyres which have had a new tread glued on. The latter are quite likely to blow out on motorways.
You don't need either of those, there are enough good enough cheap winter tyres. Go to a respectable tyre dealer and ask for cheap winter tyres, FOUR of them, or don't buy any at all.
Thanks for that too - just what I was looking for - been looking at the same tyre on Mytyres!
i've just got a set of winter tyres for my FWD A3.
i think winter tyres on FWD or RWD will be better than summer tyres on 4WD - after all, 4 times zero (traction) is still zero :)
best would be winter tyres on 4WD though :D :D
I had a quick look on-line for alloys for winter tyres, I don't fancy constantly changing tyres on the OEM rims, and came across Rochford Tyres. They seem pretty reasonable, and will do a tyre and wheel package. It doesn't list prices for premium tyre packages, I'll maybe give them a call.
Edit: I just found their price for my summer tyres and they seem very competitive.
i got a used set of 15" Audi alloys off ebay for £52 - and they are in excellent condition. the goodyear ultragrip 8s were £63 each (instead of £130ish each for the 17" rims on my car) and fitting will be £15 each. having a spare set of wheels makes sense in more ways than one to me - and I have the space to store them.
also - mytyres were doing these tyres on steel rims, fully balanced and delivered for £100 each - not too bad.
OK,looks like good arguement for winter tires .Have ordered some for my wife's micra(what does 710 mean) and will think adout the CRV
winter tyres it is then, what a useful thread cheers to the op
I recommend Continental winters, and I run them on a 5 litre 400bhp V8 RWD car with no issues. I have driven on both ice and compacted snow with ease although I haven't tried anything too daring in terms of steep inclines. I would also recommend maybe trying one size skinnier than what you would usually run in the summer as long as your alloys/steelies allow it. Drive with confidence on winters but never forget that you're still driving on snow/ice and still leave more space for braking and other people who are out of control!
Make no mistake, the car would go NOWHERE (DSC on or off) when shod on the summer tyres so the winter tyres are a revolution.
Just remember 4 wheel drive won't make you stop any quicker on snow or ice or prevent you from under steering into trees or traffic.
Exactly. All cars have 4 wheel braking. Audi manuals even warn about this.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
With correct throttle use, 4WD can in fact pull you back in again when understeering :wink:
As it can with RWD (or rather a bootful in the snow with some lock on will swap understeer for oversteer) but I think both are beyond the ken of the typical driver who has (for example) no skidpan training. One problem might be that one man's 4WD is not the same as another, and the Haldex VW system might respond differently to Audi's system, which is different to Subaru's, which probably shuffles power around differently to Mitsubishi's...
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Another vote for winter tyres, my M3 was undrivable without them, last year running on vred wintracs was amazing no traction problems at all.
If you wish see how 4 WD can 'reign you in' if understeering, watch World Rally Cross - amazing !!
BTW, has just been big test on winter tyres in Norway - non studded group:
* Michelin X-Ice X12, 7.6 poeng. (these performed so well they had better braking than studded tyres !)
* Nokian Hakkapeliitta R, 7.5 poeng.
* Goodyear Grip Ice+, 7.3 poeng.
* Continental Viking Contact 5, 7.1 poeng.
* Bridgestone Blizzak WS70, 6.9 poeng.
* Kumho I´Zen kW 31, 6.8 poeng.
* Pirelli Icecontrol, 6.8 poeng.
* Dunlop SP Ice Sport, 6.7 poeng.
* Yokohama Ice Guard ig30, 5.9 poeng.
Do you have a link to the above test ? I'm interested in reading it. Thanks dude
Do you have a link to the above test ? I'm interested in reading it. Thanks dude
Me too, if you did have a link to it Peter it would be much appreciated.
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