Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy

[monogroover]

A separate discussion perhpas, but is Gary Oldman over-rated, and has he fulfilled his early promise as an actor?

I haven't seen him in this but I don't think he's overrated, especially when you think that some prominent actors make a living by playing the same character in every film.

[rfrazier]

A separate discussion perhpas, but is Gary Oldman over-rated, and has he fulfilled his early promise as an actor?

I haven't seen him in this but I don't think he's overrated, especially when you think that some prominent actors make a living by playing the same character in every film.

My wife suggested that Oldman is slightly more believable as Smiley than was Guinness. As much as she likes Guinness, she could never understand how Ann would ever fall for him.

In any case, I didn't think that Oldman played Smiley poorly. There was a lot going on there, but it was pretty subtle. For example, when he sends Ricki Tarr to Paris, Ricki asks Smiley to promise to get Irina back. You can tell from from what Smiley says "he will do everything he can to get her back", the way that he says it, and his facial expression that he knows she is dead. It was all there in Oldman's acting, but very, very understated. He also let the steel show a few other times. But, they were just brief glimpses.

Best wishes,
Bob

[petethegeek]

...she could never understand how Ann would ever fall for him.

I always saw Anne as a kind of a collector of men - a MIS perhaps?

[Bloke]

Saw it last night and as much as I wanted to enjoy it I really didn't.

I found it very slowly paced, which normally allows you to build a strong feeling for each of the characters of which I felt little.
I disliked the 70's grainy filming, this added nothing to the film for me - in fact it detracted from it. The sets/wardrobe/props do enough to convey the time period without the need for this.
Re-reading what I've just typed it appears that I'm only interested in big budget CGI obsessed action films, this really isn't the case but this one for me was just lacking, it didn't hold my attention at all.

Paul.

[ralphy]

A separate discussion perhpas, but is Gary Oldman over-rated, and has he fulfilled his early promise as an actor?

I haven't seen him in this but I don't think he's overrated, especially when you think that some prominent actors make a living by playing the same character in every film.

Quite.



R

[Madness]

Just been to see it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Found it a bit slow to start but liked the way it dragged you back to the 70's with the sheer browness of everything!

Cast are excellent and I liked Oldmans performanace. Have not seen the original or read the book but really felt the tension twist as evry subtle glance and conversation conveyed different things.

The only weakness for me was with the discovery of the mole, a bit rushed and lack of impact.

[CamCG]

...she could never understand how Ann would ever fall for him.

I always saw Anne as a kind of a collector of men - a MIS perhaps?

Interesting observation and something I've wondered about before now.

My own explanation is that George's appeal to her is his steadiness and reliability.

Anne is someone who likes the "party life" and the opportunity to "enjoy the company" of any man that takes her fancy.

Yet at the same time it is integral to her equilibrium that in her life of flux there is always one constant. Despite his apparent greyness, George supplies this constant - a safe haven to which she can always return - whilst many other men would not be prepared to tolerate her lifestyle.

[CamCG]

The only weakness for me was with the discovery of the mole, a bit rushed and lack of impact.

Entirely agree with this.

Even ignoring the fact that the TV series had many hours to build to the revealing of the mole, the way the film handled the act of the revealing itself seemed very dour whereas the way the TV series handled it really ramped-up the tension in the final seconds before the climax.

I'll be careful what I say here for fear of giving too much away (don't read on if you don't want to know anything about the final moments of TTSS), but I liked the way that in the TV series you can hear, as George stands nervously in the hallway, the detached yet highly distinctive voice of the mole in another room speaking first in Russian and then in English - in so doing we know who the mole is at the same time that George does.

In the film, the mole speaks only in Russian (and in a non-recognisable accent), so that we only know his identity when Guillam enters the room - after the point George has discovered him.

Another point is that in the TV series the mole, speaking in English whilst George listens in, says to his liaison to Moscow Centre that "Karla has 24 hours to get me out" - thereby providing the unquestionable evidence that he is a Russian double agent. In the film this doesn’t happen (or if it does, it is said in unsubtitled Russian). As a result, instead of hearing the incriminating evidence of his double life from his own mouth prior to his capture as in the TV series, cinema audiences are just supposed to accept that the man George captures is the mole solely by the fact that George has captured him!

[moggi1]

hi, just to let you know if anyones interested you can pick up the complete bbc series on dvd for a measley £4.87 @ amazon, just bagged one myself. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tinker-Tailor-S ... 973&sr=8-4

[monogroover]

The only weakness for me was with the discovery of the mole, a bit rushed and lack of impact.

I'd say that was a weakness of the TV series, as well.

[Carlton-Browne]

Just finished watching the original BBC series last night; what a delightful slow-burner. It was quite amusing to watch almost everybody lighting up every five minutes; being in my forties the workplace has largely been a smoke-free atmosphere whereas the seventies, apart from being quite grey, must also have stunk of stale tobacco. I feel that I can now consider taking in the re-make; if I can't find it in the cinema then I'll probably be content to wait until it hits a DVD bargain bucket. Hopefully that won't be too long.

[Gentlemanjim]

It would still be interesting to see a review from soemone who hasn't read the book or seen the TV series.

Did someone call?
Sounds like me, haven`t read the book , nor did I see the TV series, but read the hype and controversy about the film, so went to see it with my wife, who has read the book.

As most commenters here have said it takes its time getting in to gear, what`s the story? But at the end my wife and I spent about an hour discussing why this happened like it did, and what links did we miss that could have led to that outcome, etc, in short the logic of the plot was often difficult to keep up with.

Overall, we both thoroughly enjoyed the film, acting and character playing was very convincing. But, we both thought that there was a lot going on in the film, the result of condensing the plot and play into such a short timescale. Too short to make it easily understandable for anyone who didn`t have previous knowledge of the plot.

Anyway, thanks to the comments on this thread I`ve just ordered the DVD of the tv series

[Quackers]

An excellent TV serial. Well written and well acted.
It's a pity that the original story line is not exciting enough for modern movie-goers, or so it seems.

[RobinMasters]

hi, just to let you know if anyones interested you can pick up the complete bbc series on dvd for a measley £4.87 @ amazon, just bagged one myself. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tinker-Tailor-S ... 973&sr=8-4

Thanks for the link; just bought a copy. I'm halfway through the book, and a small DVD purchase might just stave off the watch buying urge I have this evening :D

[fornowagain]

Thanks for the link; just bought a copy. I'm halfway through the book, and a small DVD purchase might just stave off the watch buying urge I have this evening :D

Have a look at the sequel series Smileys People.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Smileys-People- ... 050&sr=1-1

[Carlton-Browne]

Finally got round to, and finished, watching Smiley's People on Friday evening. Even more enjoyable than Tinker Tailor in my opinion though I thought Michael Lonsdale a little wooden in the final episode.

Incidentally have noticed posters going up in Berlin for the Gary Oldman version and was slightly put out by the German title; Dame, König, As, Spion. My immediate assumption was that it was the usual cack-handed attempt to translate/transpose the film title into German until SWMBO pointed out that the novel (translated) was always called that.

[SimonK]

The film posters are up in Paris too, the French title is La Taupe (The Mole) which was also the title of the orignal translation of the book.

[simoscribbler]

On the TV series point: worth getting the boxed set of both series, great value. We thought Smiley's People was even better than TTSS.

[gibbon]

Terrible name though, just seems to annoy me for some reason, irrational or not.

[oldandgrumpy]

Terrible name though, just seems to annoy me for some reason, irrational or not.

I thought it intriguing :?

[rfrazier]

Thanks for the link; just bought a copy. I'm halfway through the book, and a small DVD purchase might just stave off the watch buying urge I have this evening :D

Have a look at the sequel series Smileys People.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Smileys-People- ... 050&sr=1-1

I have this, and just watched it again. (Last evening and this morning while doing some chores.) Wonderful.

Best wishes,
Bob

[monogroover]

I agree that Smiley's People is even better than Tinker ... Quite original and different, not a repeat of a winning formula.

[Newbear]

We watched the DVD of the film at the weekend. It was very good and an interesting, if slightly strange, adaptation. Oldman was good as Smiley I thought - but not really in the Alec Guiness league and it was no surprise that he didn't get the BAFTA some thought he deserved.

[StinkyPete]

I saw it last night (already having seen and loved the book and the BBC series). Thoroughly enjoyed it. Gary Oldman's dull performance was exactly what was called for but he was on a hiding to nothing taking on the role after the Alec Guinness portrayal.
Overall, a thumbs up from me. So nice to not get the urge to make a cup of tea halfway through a film these days.

[mickylall]

just watched this and thought it was excellent with a fantastic cast,too young to remember the series and haven't read the book but thoroughly enjoyed it.
glad i didn't watch it with the mrs though,she needs the actors to have post-it notes on their foreheads with 'goody' and 'baddy' printed on them.

the song at the end was fantastic,never knew julio inglesias was so cool 8) :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MVMJP0nbEQ

cheers,mick

[gentlemenpreferhats]

Pub quiz factoid:
And did anyone spot the cameo by le Carré himself? When they sing the Russian national anthem at the christmas party he's the first man to stand up. 8)

[StinkyPete]

Pub quiz factoid:
And did anyone spot the cameo by le Carré himself? When they sing the Russian national anthem at the christmas party he's the first man to stand up. 8)

Didn't spot that. Nice to know that he was involved and didn't Alan Moore it.

[rfrazier]

Terrible name though, just seems to annoy me for some reason, irrational or not.

I thought it intriguing :?

Tinker, etc., or Smiley's People?

Tinker, etc., is a great name. I suspect that almost everyone in England knows the rhyme. It made perfect sense to me. He had to choose the spy by eliminating the alternatives. Given the context, if you've got to count, the method either comes from the nursery (it isn't accidental that their training school is also called "the nursery"), or from public school. Since, I guess, there aren't many well known counting rhymes from public school, it had to be from the nursery.

Tinker, tailor,
Soldier, sailor,
Rich man, poor man,
Beggar-man, thief.

The name Smiley's People is also good. Smiley has gone rogue[1], and and all the main characters are from his deep past.

1. In this novel/film, he is absolutely unrelenting and unforgiving. He makes Dirty Harry look like a kindergarten teacher. :)

Best wishes,
Bob

[NJH]

I loved it. Rented it out the other week and was glued to the screen all the way through. The pace near the end was a little too quick for my liking though, its like they decided the film was to long so edited it down a bit. It leaves you feeling a little like, was that it.

[Rob N]

I loved it too, saw it on video unlimited at the weekend. It is great that we can produce such stylish and well acted films here now. I would agree with the end though, it was a bit vague, I have a couple of questions.

Maybee I should rent it again.

[gollUM]

Excellent movie! I liked it a lot, especially because its pace is unusual for today's standards. This pace actually "fits" with the story and puts you right in the middle of the plot. Really, really nice...

[StinkyPete]

I think the catching of Bill Haydon being glossed over could have worked better had the film been able to build some kind of relationship between him and Smiley. As it was, I don't think we knew either man well enough to imagine what would be passing between them so we were left with a hole.

[hogthrob]

I've just watched Smiley's People. Further agreement that it's excellent. The stand out for me was Barry Foster's Saul Enderby - a superb portrayal, and a perfect example of Le Carre's brilliance in writing larger than life but wholly believable characters. Thinking about it, Boris Johnson could be a Le Carre creation.

[gentlemenpreferhats]

Thinking about it, Boris Johnson could be a Le Carre creation.

Some things are too absurd to be mere fiction :blackeye:

[GraniteQuarry]

Smashing film, one of the best seen in a long time.

Subsequently bought the original BBC set, which will be savoured one weekend when I've got the house to myself :)