Reply With QuoteAbsolutely lovely watch. I would definitely prefer one of those over a Rolex or Omega (well perhaps with the exception of the Explorer 1 or X33). :P
Can't afford any watch for a while but I do like the Grand Seiko Quartz line up, especially the SBGX063 model. Just wondered if there was any owners here, past or present, who'd like to comment on GS quartz watches. If possible a mini review would be fantastic.
This is the one I really like.
And a great vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHglGi1LSgM
Cheers,
Gary
Absolutely lovely watch. I would definitely prefer one of those over a Rolex or Omega (well perhaps with the exception of the Explorer 1 or X33). :P
I have three 9F61.
One in 18K and one black on a bracelet.
The latter is from the era when the entry level of GS bracelet did not exist yet. It has thé best (7-part) link design I have seen. It has internal locking plates that keep the links free floating.
The third has an off white (not cream) dial and is thé most understated watch one can imagine; simple perfection.
I like the almost ´organic´ form perfect shape of these simple 9F61s and the contrast between polished and ´matt´ is very subtly supporting the shapes.
Last but not least; they are no worries on time within the tc specs. The batteries last wéll over specified for the 9Fxx (probably because these are no date) and are a doddle to replace.
The seconds hand covers the central pivot like a hub cap which I think is néat.
The twín step motor and pallet system moving the seconds hand gives a 8) deliberate, not bouncing and exact on the dot second sized time bit display. It is as close as an analogue watch comes to seconds digits.
Here next to the EPD and a vintage 6155 Special:
These are just as well finished and manufactured as any current GS ánd true to the original motto of simply time perfected; nothing flashy or marketing driven.
They are true to that GS ´message´ in the Seiko book ´Journey in Time´.
It means they are remain under the radar of even wis and are probably too much of an understament for all but the die hard.
It also means you have the undisturbed and risc free pérsonal pleasure of wearing one even in 18k.
It is totally under cover as per example;
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
These GS 9F61 are simply time perfected for pérsonal appreciation.
Absolutely gorgeous pieces!
The only quartz watch I would throw my money at :)
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Curious, I am wearing mine today... I posted yesterday a picture of it with the rest of my HEQ. Mine is a black dial version, 9f62, with agressive crown protections. A japan-market-only model bought a year ago in Tokio.
It is elegant, slim, with a perfect bracelet. Well, everything about it speaks of perfection. And maybe that is the sole defect. Whenever I wear it I realise that if I were a fully rational guy, I would sell all my watches and keep just this one. But I am not rational, and that makes me feel guilty whenever I wear it. I know, it is an irrational sentiment. But as I have said before, I am irrational.
I wonder, maybe if I were japanese or german, or even british, my sentiments would not be so relevant. But I am southern mediterranean, and my instincts play a greater role than my brain. If I were at home, I would go to my watch box and change my perfect Seiko by another, less than perfect watch. I hate you, Grand Seiko, for reminding me I am not perfect, as you are....
I have the black dial version of the one you like - the sbgx061. It is a lovely, lovely watch. I've been meaning to do a review and will get round to it soon I hope!
It's the watch I wear the most at the moment. Really nice build quality, beautiful dial / dauphine hand combo and outstanding accuracy plus it's under the radar. Thanks to the drilled lugs it's easy to swap to a strap (19mm lugs - suits a Hirsch London alligator perfectly. Also bought a GS buckle from Seiya.) The bracelet/clasp combo is quality though and I'm very happy that there are no polished sections on the top surfaces of the bracelet so refinishing will be a piece of cake.
It's a true WIS watch IMHO - all quality engineering and no bling or marketing BS.
Jura offered no discount and a 3-4 month wait so I went to Higuchi. Only slightly cheaper after taxes but excellent quick service.
Stunning watches all.
Are the taxes really that bad? Has anyone used one of the Euro Seiko Boutique?
Taxes run at about 20% when you import from outside the EU to the UK.
GS prices in EU AD's tend to be inflexible and more than Seiya and Higuchi can sell at.
You are buying from an AD though, you also wouldn't have to worry about any additional tax within the EU.Originally Posted by Plake
I wish I had a chance to visit the Parisian AD during my recent visit.
Best buy those pre-owned.
They pop on ebay too. Generally véry attractively prced .
The 9Fxx calibers are problem free and have a 50 year service interval so no worries.
Pre-owned 9F GS watches make véry good buys.
I owned one for a day (Cheers Plake) :) . I'm not great at reviews though so would like to hand over to Ollie Williams from channel 5 action news for his take:
Me: Ollie, what are Grand Seiko quartz watches like?
Ollie Williams: Small.
:wink:
Hi Gary
I'm quite a fan of the Grand Seiko's - just not got around to owning one yet....I see there is a nice King Seiko over on SC at the moment ! :lol:
All the best - Neil
Classy looking watch.
Mine are 38 mm.
Big enough for a 2824-2 to drown in :mrgreen:
Great watch!
Most of my watches are as big as my ego........... :D
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I always wondered why Rolex are so popular :wink:
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. I'm off to my nuclear bunker now :lol:
Thanks for the replies and pics chaps :)
One day I'll own one but it certainly won't be bought new, especially here in the UK.
Cheers,
Gary
Keep an eye out for the (no longer in production) SBGX035, 39mm and 200m WR + a screw-down crown makes it my favorite!
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Great shot of a super quality watch.
Very good post Jose and I know the feeling exactly - just in regards to a different Seiko.
It is elegant, slim, with a perfect bracelet. Well, everything about it speaks of perfection. And maybe that is the sole defect. Whenever I wear it I realise that if I were a fully rational guy, I would sell all my watches and keep just this one. But I am not rational, and that makes me feel guilty whenever I wear it. I know, it is an irrational sentiment. But as I have said before, I am irrational.
I hate you, Grand Seiko, for reminding me I am not perfect, as you are....
Glad that I am not alone feeling thus.
BTW another very nice Seiko. Those crown protectors sure are aggressive, as you say though.
That is futile as they will send a gas passing one after you :bigsmurf:
:lol:
I'm very grateful for your superhuman wrists - and that you gave me first refusal to buy it back. Never had such bad seller's remorse :)
It's a 37mm watch with a dial bigger than my SD, but it does wear slightly smaller in my opinion. Not sure why.
Stunning, although I do prefer the Spring Drive version. Thanks for a great shot and also the info regarding Jura -v- Seiya. It's academic for the foreseeable but one never knows....
Cheers
David
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
Wow, a 50 year service interval! That is one serious piece of engineering. Every time i get comfortable with my meagre collection a thread like this comes along & ruins everything.
Thanks, Jesper. And regarding the crown protectors, I think that without them I would not wear it: even more perfect and balanced!
BTW I posted a heads up of a mint one sold in the bay for silly money a few months ago..... totally ignored by the guys here...I have tried the search function but it does not work properly....
I also like the crown protectors thats what draws me to this model 8) :)Thanks, Jesper. And regarding the crown protectors, I think that without them I would not wear it: even more perfect and balanced!
BTW I posted a heads up of a mint one sold in the bay for silly money a few months ago..... totally ignored by the guys here...I have tried the search function but it does not work properly....
Can't help you directly but the only quartz I own (and will probably ever own) is a Seiko. IMHO they are the true masters of quartz, with Citizen coming in a close second....
The Citizen consistently beats the Seikos on performance though. Ever since the seventies. Citizen have produced thé most accurate quartz to date during the seventies.
Seiko holds the high end quality candle but most certainly nót the performance one.
I'll re-light the fire on this old thread seeing as I've just joined the club, so to speak....
are these the only proper watches?
Idiot alert ?
3 threads in three minutes...
Congratulations, welcome to the club. What model is that?
Thank you indeed. It's the SBGX009Congratulations, welcome to the club. What model is that?
Certainly if one is to own the best quartz watch money can buy, then Grand Seiko is the brand to go for. Seiko pioneered quartz technology and was a profound contribution to horology.
When one considers that Seiko quartz almost killed off the entire mechanical watch industry, it is ironic that (Grand) Seiko is today lauded for their exemplary mechanical watches.
The praise is justified of course, but it is ironic none the less.
I have zero desire for a Seiko mechanical. For me Seiko = quartz. Simple. Buy with confidence.
I have a SBGV007 and I wouldn't swap it.
PS: to those who think Grand Seiko is a "below the radar" brand. This has not been my experience. Sure, they're not universally recognised of course, but no less than most other high end watch brands. It's hard to quantify, but I would describe it by saying that anyone who recognises a Zenith watch, (for example), will also recognise a Grand Seiko for what it is. Those who don't know what a Grand Seiko is will likely not know what a Jaeger Lecoultre is either (again, just as an example). That is to say, 99% of people.
Absolutely gorgeous that is, where did you purchase from if you don't mind me asking?I'll re-light the fire on this old thread seeing as I've just joined the club, so to speak....
Absolutely gorgeous that is, where did you purchase from if you don't mind me asking?
Once again, thanks for the comment. I happened upon it on SC.
I have a SBGV009
IMHO this is one of the greatest watches I have ever owned. Sweeping (or non sweeping in the case of the quartz!) statement I know but those who know me know how many watches I have been through in my time here and this is in the top 3 easily. It's just perfectly executed.
I'm a fan, and own an sbgx085, something you don't see every day... Or ever! I'd happily add another, especially the sbgx055. However I had a look at the model you mention at the Seiko boutique in Amsterdam, and I have to say, I'm not convinced by the dial colour, which can look a little too yellow (rather than pale gold or champagne) in artificial light - for my taste anyway. Hope that helps.
Yes and no. They were the first to launch a laboratorium one on the market so got a first thére.
They were at the front of development, one of the pioneers but NÓT the ones pulling this cart. Patek was the main motor and then it became busy. Seiko was very quick on the ball and developed the quartz but was NOT the pioneer.
Do read up on this. It took a while and the two best books are not translated in english but two very good ones are. ´Electrifying the wristwatch´ is now available in english too so no excuse anymore.
A myth created and fed by the Swiss marketing their mech tech reinvented as desirable.When one considers that Seiko quartz almost killed off the entire mechanical watch industry,
It was not quartz at all but the US letting go of the gold standard. This made the US dollar crash in value. The Yen was at the time paired to the $. Ths made Swiss watches expensive in the US, Japanese ones were unaffected and in Europe they became cheaper. Almost overnight the Swiss saw their production crash and thus had a severe cash flow problem. It was quartz which sáved them!! Swiss quartz succes created the mechanial fashion.
Again do read up on this. Like on 1983 Swatch.
Suspect this may be poor lighting - in reality it's a sunburst silver dial.
Sounds great, I wonder what they make the case gaskets from to ensure WR for 50 years? or was that another porky?
I'm basing this on having tried the actual watch in the Seiko store in Amsterdam. In daylight, it's a silver dial and looks great - there are some pictures on Seiya's site where it looks like almost the perfect watch: http://www.seiyajapan.com/collection...ucts/s-sbgx063
But as with other silver dialled watches, when there's some tungsten balanced indoor light in the environment, it will pick up some of that colour - this isn't poor lighting, it's just normal indoor light. While eg old model silver dial Omega ATs either looks silver or golden / champagne coloured depending on the time of day and lighting, and vintage Rolex hit that champagne spot, some GS take on a slightly yellow tinge. This is not the case for all the dial variations, but it is the case for the SBGX063. This may not be an issue at all for some, who like it that way - some Patek Calatravas have a yellow tinge to the dial after all. But I personally found it to be not quite right for my skin tone and that's why I prefer the black dialed variations, in particular the SBGX055, and I own an SBGX085, which has a different tint.
Ah, big misunderstanding as I was referring to the SBGV009 :)
The SBGV009 is IMHO the perfect watch
AFAIK this commonly misquoted claim has nothing to do with the case gaskets or service intervals - it's simply to do with lubrication and the quartz module being a sealed unit. I have no idea if this means the service interval is 50 years or not, presumably the watch would need refinishing long before that, and as you suggest it couldn't do the battery any good if it lost water resistance over time. It's just a best guess from the manufacturers on when you'd need to give it extra lubrication - see here: http://www.grand-seiko.com/manufacture/9f-quartz.htmlSounds great, I wonder what they make the case gaskets from to ensure WR for 50 years? or was that another porky?
They say 'theoretically' but the truth is no one knows - the 9F has been around for about 20 years though, and I can't find any reference anywhere online to one ever having needed servicing. That may be due to the difficultly of searching in Japanese, but either way it's good enough for me, on a watch that can be had for about £1k - I think you can be confident that you won't have to factor in for servicing any time soon.
The Japanese attitude would probably be to just buy a new one long before you ever have to worry about it! At the level they are priced, a brand new watch every 20 years or so works out no more expensive than regular servicing on a normal watch.
And yet we are told this on a regular basis by Cilla, but I guess we can put in to context with all the other bs he tends to trot out for his agenda.
It is the prospect of a maintenance free (excluding DIY battery changes) service life exceeding my own remainder which appeals most about GS Quartz IMO.
The practicality of quartz most suits my everyday utilitarian lifestyle, but its treatment as a disposable has previously prevented me from wearing a quartz watch for pleasure. I like things engineered to last, generally buy the best I can afford and GS Quartz (not forgetting Citizen "The Citizen") makes this an obvious choice.
It has changed the way I view my mechanical watches because at first they seemed suddenly irrelevant. It has distilled my thinking, casting mechanicals off into a sea of "appreciation" only. This does admittedly leave some of my mechanical "tool" watches high and dry from time to time - but then there's always the collector/beachcomber in me.
By way of context I have a SBGX005 and SBGX061 both worn on leather.
Last edited by forpetesake; 26th April 2015 at 11:05.
When i referred to "quartz technology", that should have read "quartz wrist watch technology".
Quartz technology being much older of course. As I understand it;
The use of electric current to maintain a tuning fork oscillating frequency was recognised as early as 1837.
The piezoelectric effect of quartz crystal was discovered by the Curie brothers in 1880.
The potential for the use of quartz crystal oscillators in timekeeping obviously goes back to over a century ago.
The first quartz clock was created in 1927 at Bell Laboratories, NYC USA.
Work to create the first quartz "wristwatch" began some time later, and it was primarily an endeavor in miniaturisation of existing technology rather than "pioneering" brand new technology.
It is accepted that Seiko began it's research into quartz technology sometime shortly after being exposed to it during the 1956 Olympic games in Australia.
Those games were the first to be timed using a combination of quartz clocks and photocells/cameras (a device called the Photosprint made by Omega) which could give the athletes time to 100th of a second.
Interestingly, those times were considered to be unofficial, with the far less accurate hand timings of mechanical stopwatches being the ones entered into the record books.
The Tokyo games in 1964 were the first to be officially timed using quartz clocks, which were of course made by Seiko.
The First CEH Swiss quartz "wrist watch", the BETA 1, completed and classified at Neuchâtel in AUGUST 1967.
The First Seiko quartz "wrist watch", that we know of, was tested and classified at Neuchâtel in NOVEMBER 1967.
At any rate, Seiko's Astron SQ35 was released onto the market as the first commercial quartz wrist watch in December 26, 1969, whereas the Swiss variety never really got going at all, primarily due to internal conflict due to the obvious threat posed by the new technology.
A sincere thank you for the book recommendation. I will read it.
Your explanation for the near demise of the Swiss mechanical watch making industry also merits investigation.
Never got going at all? Eh no, not even close AW. Sounds like you're reading from the Seiko press releases and fan magazines. Your line "The First Seiko quartz "wrist watch", that we know of" sums that up. That we know of? We could apply the same empty supposition to the Swiss efforts.
Anyway just to set the record straight, there were 6000 Swiss Beta 21's produced in 70/71 and 50,000 Beta 22's from then to 75(IIRC). An order of magnitude more volume than the first series Seiko Astron. The very first Astron were a hand assembled run of 100 rushed out the door to steal a PR coup on the Swiss. And that's before we get to Girard Perregaux's 350 series of movements - that effectively set the standard for all analogue quartz Swiss or otherwise that followed - produced in a run of 40,000 and found in JLC, Favre, Breitling and others. Or various efforts from Longines, never mind ESA, or the Americans with the Accuquartz. Or a giant in the tech in the early days Omega, who developed truly groundbreaking quartz movements that even Seiko at their best couldn't get close to(though they were millionaire money to buy).
As Cilla notes one of the biggest drivers of the "quartz crisis" was not the lack of Swiss innovation or production, but the sudden disadvantageous shift in the exchange rates. In his memoir Jack Heuer notes this with some bitterness and panic at the time. It really hit their US and other markets sales very badly.
A second driver I would suggest was the huge rise of digital LED and LCD watches in popularity. In that market the Swiss were slow to react. And initially it wasn't the Japanese that were driving the tech and the market it was the Americans with the advanced production of microelectronics in their back garden. The US impact on this period of horology is often neglected or even ignored.
I would further argue that Seiko on top of all the above had a relatively minor role in nearly sinking the Swiss industry. After all, even with a more favourable yen/dollar rate Seikos were never a "cheap" watch. There were quite the number of cheap Swiss mechanicals(mostly pin pallet stuff like Sicuras and the like) that were far cheaper than any Seiko you could buy at the time. I remember the times pretty well and a Seiko quartz, digital or no, required digging much deeper in one's pockets. Those cheap low end Swiss mechanicals continued to sell pretty well when the high end stuff sat in jewellers windows gathering dust. Indeed Sicura that aforementioned manufacturer of cheap Swiss mechanicals had enough cash in the bank to go and buy up and save Breitling who couldn't give their watches away at the time.
Where even the cheap end of the Swiss watch industry was obliterated was when other much cheaper Japanese and "Made in Hong Kong" quartz(mostly digitals) flooded the market. They were the same price as the cheap end Swiss stuff, but far more fashionable and accurate of course. I got my first LCD watch in 78 IIRC. Cheap as chips no name thing made in Hong Kong. My father had a Seiko LCD and I remember how so much more expensive than mine it was at the time.
Last edited by Wibbs; 26th April 2015 at 15:28.
Spot on. Especially with the impact the LCD would have.
The swiss did buy in the tech though. Omega took over the Pulsar LED tech. and JLC mounted Hughes calibers. Heuer is another example that they did not míss the boat entirely. He invested quite a lot in LED chronos.
Yes and then there is the Rolex LED watch too.
All in all there are quite a few Swiss LED watches.
As to the early LCD again the Swiss wére involved on the investment side of it in US companies. On the whole though they missed out on the mass production. I am not sure whether that was not caused by the monetary crisis because the LCD tech became cheap véry quick so on that end of the market they basically had no meat on that bone with their expensive Franc.
All in all it was a combination of meta factors acting upón the watch industry. The resulting investments necessary in modern tech and currency dump in the cash flow did not combine well.
Added to this was a crippling aristocratic management structure which both stagnated and bled the industry. Although French you can see it illustrated in LiP: The Swiss were very much alike but bigger and interwoven with banks who forced mergers on them which in the end led to what was to become Swatch and save the industry under Hayek.
Seiko was .... independent. Doing its own thing in house and as you write never on the cheap. The early quartz tech is a clear illustration of how they operated (pasttense as later they did become innovating pioneers). When the technology to synthetically grow quartz cristals was develloped they were the fírst watch player to get it and they jumped in to improve it for production.
LCD too. They did not invent it but jumped on the band wagon early when it was being developed and thén added innovations for production.
Twice I mention production here. Thát has been thé major fuerte of Seiko fom very early on and this philosophy/approach can be seen very clearly in the earlies quartz designs. When GP showed the architecture, Seíko already had the technology for large scale production developed. The BETA21 and subsequent Omega developments illustrate how crucial that basic Seiko [img]http://forum.tz-uk.com/images/icons/icon3.png7img] was.
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