Reply With QuoteI've always understood that any movement with a module is more difficult to service. Have an Omega Dynamic incoming with the 2824 with DD module...
I´m looking on the Steinhart site for a chrono and I see they are offering two different movement, one based on a ETA 2824 with Dubois Depraz module and one based on Valjoux 7750. See below.
Questions
1. Does the additional Dubois Depraz module on the 2824 make the movement `unnecessary complicated`
2. What are the advantages or disadvantages of the 2824 vs 7750
3. Is the 2824 with additional DD module still `easy` to service
Movement 1
Basic ETA 2824-2 Swiss Made, automatic
with Modul from Dubois Dépraz DD 2030..
Jewels : 49 Jewels
Movement 2
ETA Valjoux 7750 élaboré, Swiss Made, automatic
Jewels: 25 jewels
I've always understood that any movement with a module is more difficult to service. Have an Omega Dynamic incoming with the 2824 with DD module...
1. + 3. Yes, the movement must be serviced more often, and the service price is higher too.
2. The running parameters are kinda the same, so I guess there aren't many differences. I've only had some experiences only with Valjoux 7750 and I was very satisfied with it.
Cheers,
Mihai
i have a Breitling b 2 , depraz moduled. Haven't had it serviced uptill now still keeping great time. Watch is from 2008 if i remeber coorectly. Seems costst are higher because 2 movements have to be serviced and my watchmaker told me it's far more difficult to regulate then a 7750.
I think the main difference you can see and experience is that the Valjoux will advance the minute hand on the chrono subdial by a small step every minute while it continuously advances on the ETA with chrono module. I like the "click" advance of the Valjoux, but suppose that is down to individual taste.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Funny I thought the modular ones would be easier to service (not necessarily cheaper though)
usually 3 or 4 screws and the chrono module can be serviced/replaced
I hate the way the crown and buttons are on different 'layers' - though some disguise this more than others.
What i also can imagine is that the Valjoux has `the better looks` when using a display back or am I wrong about that..
The 7750 may be agricultural, but it is a bullet-proof, stable and dependable movement better than others triple the price.
I guess that depends on your taste. Neither the 2824 doesn't look that bad, it usually has a rotor similar to the one found on 2892-2.Originally Posted by gortz
My watchmaker charges the same to service both movements.
Audemars Piguet use a modular chrono arrangement on their Royal Oak Offshore Chronos so it can't be all that bad.
Just to make sure I get this right, your watchmaker charges the same for servicing a 7750 as for a 2824 and the attached chronograph module? A watchmaker I spoke to, told me that he basically does not service the modules at all, but that they need to go back to DD for service.
I struggled to take that in too... :lol:Just to make sure I get this right, your watchmaker charges the same for servicing a 7750 as for a 2824 and the attached chronograph module? A watchmaker I spoke to, told me that he basically does not service the modules at all, but that they need to go back to DD for service.
Most watchmakers don't service these modules, they replace them with another one, prepared by DD.
Getting a module fully dismantled, cleaned, re-oiled (properly!!) and reassembled is an unpleasant job, I've been told by one watchmaker, who did do this work, but only without strict deadlines, and at the moments he felt ok for fiddling.
Generally, I prefer integrated chronographs and I don't have any modular chrono's these days, so I'm not really into the current status / ease of replacement by DD etc.
Someone mentioned the AP modular chrono. It's a working chronograph. However, it's a bit of a special thing. AP isn't really a chronograph-producer, they bought the movements for their Royal Oak chrono's from JLC and had them outfitted with the module. I don't know if this was because of the price or due to the production capacity and / or the development costs for an automatic chrono movement.
In recent years, AP has started using Piguet chronograph movements (integrated).
I own 2 Omega chronos with each of these movements.
I shall be servicing both in the fullness of time; thankfully both are running v. well and giving good amplitude on the trusty watch timer so there's no rush.
Generally, the Valjoux is regarded as the better movement and the ETA is reputed to be difficult to service. I won`t tackle mine until I`ve done a lot more homework on the subject and sonsulted a higher authority for advice :wink:
Many repairers won't touch the DD modular chronos......but many repairers won`t touch quartz watch movements either and they're not too bad to do (just bloody fiddly). I`d like to know what exactly makes the ETA/DD so difficult?
Paul
I thought it wasn't difficult at all; you just whip off the chrono module, send it back for a new one minus the core charge, and then you service a straightforward 2824. Or a 2890/2, which is actually what's inside a Dynamic chrono...
As it goes, the chrono module of the ETA 2894 has some oiling points on its service chart. Only if it's broken does it need to go back. There is a belief here that the chrono module has to be sent back to the manufacturer every three years or something, regardless of whether there's anything wrong with it. I mean, I ignore it because it's wrong, but hapless folk stumbling upon this forum probably won't
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Thanks for the comments Andrew, I`ll remember that :)
Paul
That is the :bounce: of this configuration.
That again is the :bounce: of this configuartion.As it goes, the chrono module of the ETA 2894 has some oiling points on its service chart. Only if it's broken does it need to go back. There is a belief here that the chrono module has to be sent back to the manufacturer every three years or something, regardless of whether there's anything wrong with it. I mean, I ignore it because it's wrong, but hapless folk stumbling upon this forum probably won't
1. The chrono module does not make a more complicated movement to service.
2. The chrono module needs very little and then simple service. Unless it is a vertical clutch one left running it usually doesn´t do all that much much.
I don't think theres a lot in it myself and happy to have a watch with either.
I've had a few valjoux powered chronos, though have none at present. My speedmaster auto has a DD module, and has been running fine for 13 years so far. I also have a Tag 2000 chrono, again running fine after probably about 20 years. The staggered pusher/crown thing doesn't bother me much, but it is less tidy looking, but I don't see it as a major problem.
It's more common to see unaligned pushers and crown, but even that isn't the dead cert giveaway that it used to be. The ETA 2894 can be fitted with the pushers and crown seemingly in a line (see the B&R below), and some modules (such as that fitted to the Tudor Heritage chrono) also allow things to line up:
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I'm not sure if it's still the case but the modular chronos used to have a little more play - due to the greater number of mechanical connections, I think.
I recall reading one of Chuck Maddox's posts to the effect that newer modules were being held together with rivets rather than screws, necessitating replacement rather than service.
I do not recommend chronos with DD modules.
john
Every watch a story.
Do all the ETA modular chronos have modules that are DD-derived?I do not recommend chronos with DD modules.
john
[quote=david stinson]Do all the ETA modular chronos have modules that are DD-derived?[/quote:1gjuqmn3]I do not recommend chronos with DD modules.
john
I believe Soprod used to make modules for ETA but I am not sure if there were any chronos or even if they are still in the module business as they are currently busy with their own movements.
john
Every watch a story.
Given the choice between the 2 movements, I'd choose the 7750. However, I do own a DD module Omega Speedmaster Reduced. My favourite chronograph movements are the Lemanias, whether it is the 1340/1341 or the 5012/5100 family of calibres.
I'd like to see more watches with the newer ETA C01.211. To my knowledge, only Tissot and Swatch use this movement to date. Whilst it is apparently restricted to brands that are members of the Swatch group, I see no reason why Certina, for example, couldn't use it.
Really, you want to see more of these? Even Russian movements look better. It is an embarrassment that this day and age, especially with all the money floating through the system, that the Swiss would put their name on a ... tractor. :(
john
Every watch a story.
I had similar worries over watches with a piggyback chrono module. Many of the learned members of the forum kindly offered their opinions and experiences.
Here's a link to the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=204440
Horses for courses John. The more choice out there, the better. I don't think that it was particularly healthy for the lower end of the automatic chronograph market to only have the 7750.
Really, you want to see more of these? Even Russian movements look better. It is an embarrassment that this day and age, especially with all the money floating through the system, that the Swiss would put their name on a ... tractor. :(
john
I wish that Seiko would make the movement used in the Ananta and Flightmaster available for other cheaper chronographs. However, I read somewhere today that there is and/or will be a new Seiko automatic chronograph movement on the market. I don't think that it will be branded Seiko, but will be like those generic movements fitted to the Dagaz Tsunami that are the same as the 6R15 in all but name. Even better if Orient and Citizen re-entered the market too.
That's interesting. So what are you supposed to do regarding cleaning the module as part of a 'regular' service? Do you put the entire module into the cleaner fully assembled?As it goes, the chrono module of the ETA 2894 has some oiling points on its service chart. Only if it's broken does it need to go back. There is a belief here that the chrono module has to be sent back to the manufacturer every three years or something, regardless of whether there's anything wrong with it. I mean, I ignore it because it's wrong, but hapless folk stumbling upon this forum probably won't
Here's what the inside of the module looks like....
There's a lot of metal to metal contact there, and if you wash all the oil/grease off, can you oil all the right points again when fully assembled? If not then perhaps it shouldn't be cleaned at all, which doesn't seem right either.
I'm not a fan of either calibre, but at least with the 7750 you can strip the thing down and clean it properly.
Rich.
Check the Seiko SNAB35 mechanical chrono (with alarm) for peanuts
http://www.amazon.com/Seiko-SNAB35-Chro ... 535&sr=1-9
john
Every watch a story.
My understanding is that it's sealed pretty much for life. The oils will of course break down eventually, and cause malfunction, and that's when the module goes off.
What ETA says about the module is that "...it is supplied oiled, adjusted and ready to assemble with its basic movement. Since no other fittings can be supplied for this module, we would urgently advise you against dismantling it. Instead, you should opt for standard replacement if you encounter any problems."
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I'm fairly sure that is a quartz chronograph, unfortunately.
Check the Seiko SNAB35 mechanical chrono (with alarm) for peanuts
http://www.amazon.com/Seiko-SNAB35-Chro ... 535&sr=1-9
john
I recently bought a Meccaniche Veloci with a modified Valjoux 7750 from a TZ member & whilst researching the movement found this article very interesting:
http://www.timezone.com/library/horo...72313433425752
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