Reply With QuoteAt 77 and with the level of meds consumed I would think it a pretty serious attempt.... unless he called someone first or was expecting a visitor?
Guys.
Just last week I posted a thread asking advice about Alert systems that are available for the elderly and thanks for the replies. As you will guess there is more to this true story of my Dad and how he collapsed last Saturday to be found on the Wednesday suffering from what was first diagnosed at the scene as a stroke or a seizure. It transpires now that it was neither.
Dad pushed a cup full of his variety of blood thinning tablets, Arthritis tablets and anything else he's on with a small mixture of whisky to aid consumption I presume down his throat,Sat on his sofa and waited for the result.
Wouldn't recommend this at home guys.You will end up on life support and spend 3 days bouncing yourself off the walls of your living room taking everything you own with it including the TV and Hifi .Oh and who ever is next of kin will need to sort the mess out afterwards. Thank goodness for the carpet and upholstery cleaners and recommended solutions for them.
At 77 he's lucky to be alive. How do you recognise an honest attempt at ending it all? What does a cry for help look like? What are the differences between the 2 ?
Sorry that its a bit deep and I have no intention in bringing back any bad memory's or experiences or offending anyone on TZ but I need advice about what happened in my life last week.
Guess I want to know the signs so that when he comes home I can spend quality time with him and get to the root of this and try and help him.
Thanks
Tony
At 77 and with the level of meds consumed I would think it a pretty serious attempt.... unless he called someone first or was expecting a visitor?
Thats a really difficult thing to deal with. I suggest you get professional help asap. Speak to his/your GP for a referral to a suitable specialist (as in get a phone number there and then!)
He should have had some form of mental health assessment when in hospital,try to find out what their opinion was in the first instance.But not common to have 'cry for help' type behaviour in this age group,more likely to have been seriously depressed.
That is very good advice.Originally Posted by Josh B
It isn't easy to deal with - but you seem to be taking control of the situation well. I does sound more than just a cry for help and there could be a lot more deeper rooted reasons behind it.
I hope things work out well.
Best wishes.
It's just a matter of time...
Thanks.
Its a bit strange as he wasn't guaranteed any visitors but left his back door unlocked but then also made sure that access to his living room was restricted.
Sorry to hear this. I'm sure there will be lots of opinions but you should take professional advice.
What is often seen as 'signs' is often just somebody not thinking straight other than what they are about to do.
For me this should be treated as a serious attempt.
Hope things work out.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I can't see any benefit to that setup either way... seems more suggestive of confusion - perhaps caused by an underlying condition? I am sure the mental health people will be all over this, but make sure the medical types rule everything else out first.
Up until earlier this year i specialised in this area for over 8 years, albeit with the under 65's.
Firstly at your Dad's age it is rarely a cry for help, there is no way he should have been allowed out of hospital without a mental health assessment. In my area anyone over the age of 65 who had self harmed would have been offered admission to a mental health unit and if this offer was refused then the Consultant would have insisted on reviewing the individual personally.
if your Dad is still in hospital, insist on a Psychiatric assessment, there should be a Liaison Psychiatrist or Nurse Specialist available. If he has been discharged conatact his GP or your local Mental Health team and ask for an urgent assessment.
Feel free to drop me a pm if you have any questions
Sad to hear this.
Has there been any self harming at all prior?
Good luck with everything
No.Absolutely no signs of self harm or depression. He is getting older and finds it hard to do the things he would like too.
Put briefly a cry for help would typically involve sub-lethal method that the patient didn't expect to be successful. Other features would include it being impulsive as opposed to planned, lack of a note, lack of precautions to avoid being discovered and a no previous attempts at suicide. There are other indicators from his current mental state at the time and past medical history that would also point one way or the other.
Sorry to hear about this and I'm sure it has upset you deeply. I'm guessing he will be seen by a psychiatrist during his current admission. I would ask whether there are plans for him to be reviewed asap and if not insist that he gets psych input before discharge.
Appreciate my point of view might seem controversial. - but why do you assume "he's lucky to be alive" ?
For you maybe, for your value system but what about what he actually wants?
Maybe, just maybe, he's had enough after 77 years - it's all about context.
Why assume it's a cry for help?
I can't imagine anything worse than well meaning relatives / friends / professionals prolonging my life when I have made a rational choice that enough is enough.
Just because a person is old doesn't make their thought processes any less logical or relevant.
Older people tend by and large to be more stoical and emotionally reserved, so it can be difficult to guage what is going on in their head from appearance and behaviour.They can seem reasonably together and yet thinking and feeling can become quite disturbed and loose touch with reality to some extent.Any overdose in an elderly person needs to be taken very seriously and a proper psychiatric assessment carried out.Many elderly people have to accept unpleasant realities of ageing but don't react in this way .
I realise the serious nature of OP's concern ,my comments are based on some 15 years as a Consultant Psychiatrist with specific responsibility for Liason Psychiatry to a general Hospital.
Why do you assume your reply would be deemed as controversialI am open to all views ...I think your reply has made me look it from a slightly different point of view
Thanks
T
Last edited by itsgotournameonit; 19th November 2012 at 23:50.
What about this...
He drinks the whiskey and gets drunk. When he is drunk he gets depressed and decides that it would be a good time to top himself and decides to down the pills.
Alternatively he may have drunk the whiskey to get the balls to down the pills.
My money is on no.1 due to him botching the job.
Also if he has done it once he will possibly try it again. Some dude in his 70's wanting to top himself is pretty serious, but does he have a drink problem and could it be caused by this ? Also does he get depressed when he drinks ?
You would be surprised at the amount of normal people who would never commit suicide when sober but have done when drunk.
As for trashing the house are you sure he never did that in the rage ?
Are you sure he never got really drunk, trashed the house and then thought "fuc my life, i'm going to end it right now". ?
The one thing here is this. If he really meant to kill himself then next time he will do it properly....if there is a next time.
Also this guy is your father, don't you know your own father ? You don't know if this is a cry for help or an actual attempt ?
How well do you actually know him ?
Last edited by studly; 21st November 2012 at 04:20.
I suspect he knows his father rather better than you do, but feel free to interrogate him as you wish.
I would seek professional help, speak to him at length, and if as has been suggested he's had enough I would not interfere. Suicide IMO is not always an irrational act.
Sorry to hear this, hope your dad's ok, my best wishes to you all.
Pete.
No advice to give - but Im sure its a pretty stressful time and I wish you all the best in picking up the pieces, and spending some time with your Dad.
Sounds like he committed himself to it to me, but as said - see your, or even better his, GP ASAP. Ask for a telephone consult today.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Can I suggest rather than getting him tested for everything, you just find out if he'd like his families company more often (or less often maybe?).
Might sound obvious tony but have you made an attempt to ask him directly about why he did it ?
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
At 77 this is a serious attempt.
Its all about quality of life, no matter what your age really, and if someones has dipped to an unlivable level then this is often seen as the only way out. You and your family and psych proffesionals need to talk with him seriously and honestly and find out what exactly he is going thru and what his life has become. Having him sectioned may be the safest way to find the truth.
Ive had to deal with a similar situation and altho your instinct is of course to save them and stop them no matter what, I eventually realised there was a limit everyone has and that if that was ever breached and, most importantly, irredeemably so, then I couldnt be selfish.
You and your father have a lot to talk about and it isnt easy for people to tell you the real, cold, hard truth of who and how they really are, esp to a former dependant, but it is vital as only the truth here will help both of your understanding and get you thru this. The very best of luck to your family.
You sound like the kind of son who would give him a hand...
"Yeah don't worry dad i can understand that you want to top yourself. Let me get the shotgun from the cabinet for you and then you can do a Hemingway on the doorstep ! Or if would you prefer to jump off the multi story car park i can drive you down there ? Whats it gonna be ? Oh and by the way can i have your watch before you do it ?"
Last edited by studly; 21st November 2012 at 18:25.
If it was my father I would do what I could to help - if he had truly made up his mind, and was in, imho, of sound mind, then I would try to make his decision easier for him.
It's just a matter of time...
Not helpful at such a difficult time.
Guys - the definitive advice came a few days ago from Dr f - a consultant psychiatrist who recommended urgent psych review for this chap.
Don't let the thread degenerate into bickering between posters as to who's right or wrong.
Thanks John.I have taken everybody's opinions and advise on board and have had time to think long and hard about the situation.In the back ground the medical staff having been doing a sterling job looking after him and I believe that he will be back home by the weekend.I will be spending all of next week with him and wherever I can make something better for him I will.
There are no right or wrong threads here,opinions,facts,support,experience and I thank you all
A care package is being put into place to make sure he settles back in as best possible. You think you know people I thought I knew my Dad really well but he's always been a "deep" person.It runs in the family and is in my genes.I find it hard to express my feelings emotionally (Apart from at work for some bizarre reason)
I understand I will need to do some straight talking next week. I need to find out what the issues are I know this wont be a walk in the park
Its kind of like a role reversal from when he was bringing me up.The only difference is that what ever trouble I have caused him(which wasn't much) I know is proud of his boy .
What I am trying to say is that dad would have sat me down to talk about why I went absent from school on a few occasions. I will be asking him why he wanted to end his life.
Its been a funny old week
Good luck , hope it works out
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
I'd rather ask him what happened than why he tried to kill himself and see where it goes from there. I'd also ask GP/psychiatrist to review his medications to see if there any possibile interaction / side effects which can cause depression or provoke a psychotic eposode.. Get a good professional advice and lots of patience.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
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