I thought it would be a flood of used Sea Dwellers hitting the market. Sea Dweller owners have always wished for the day they could have the looks of a SD with a modern Rolex ceramic, roller bearing bezel and solid micro-adjustable bracelet, now they can.Originally Posted by Guitarfan
I predict a rush to move on old SD's to fund a new one, this race will initally push prices down as more are available.
I think the new SD model looks fantastic and would be my ideal watch.
As already pointed out the Submariner will continue to sell more than other Rolex steel sports models. Its the best known Rolex amongst non-wis who in real world watch buying terms vastly outnumber wis.
£6k for an 16600 SD, what's the world coming to.
I have a DSSD and yes, you do have to think what you'll be upto the day you put it on as it's a dink magnet but it's totally different to the new SD.
I'll probably end up with both
And no, they've not scored an own goal.
No own goal
Rolex are in the business of selling watches and no doubt they'll continue to sell many.
No doubt values of older SDs will remain as prices for the new watches continue to rise. Resale values only affect those who own the watches. Rolex has already got the money from the initial purchase
I think this is where I am with the subject. The DSSD has a fan-base, but watch buyers, imo, were looking to an upgraded version of the old SD, not the huge DSSD. I think in general there was disappointment with the DSSD proportions and that the new SD is the watch the majority of buyers were looking for.
I think this will affect the used SD market downwards for a fair period of time.
I have no doubt that Rolex will sell more new SD then the DSSD, which is too big for a lot of people. That must have an impact on old SD and their price. Question is how many more Sports Rolex watches can the world market handle before the bubble burst?
Who knows . Though there over 500 sea dwellers for sale on chrono24.They aint as rare as you think they are.I know they werent as popular as the sub but there are still plenty in circulation.
You can buy a sub date (not cermaic) for around 3.5k where as a new ceramic one will be 5,700 new. You can buy a sea dweller for 4k so I doubt they will "shoot up massively in value"
whats the differences between the old model and the new one? (ceramic bezel, better bracelet and clasp, what else?)
Beg to differ, but happy either way.
edited - unless you truly believe that a 16610 Sub will ever be the more expensive watch compared to an SD - it's not going to happen.
Last edited by Omegamanic; 26th March 2014 at 22:23.
It's just a matter of time...
Matt dial, maxi markers and maxi hands. If it had been 42mm, it would have everything I ever wanted in a Rolex diver.
jonny, they are exactly as rare as I know they are - I.e. A hell of a lot rarer than a Sub, and any Seamaster. Whether or not there are a lot for sale is irrelevant - there happens to be the largest used watch market for Rolex watch, and probably will be for quite some time.
- - - Updated - - -
Possibly more than the new markets that are expanding every year can buy up.
Last edited by Omegamanic; 26th March 2014 at 22:26.
It's just a matter of time...
Hold a new ceramic sub face to face with a 2500 movement 42mm planet ocean. Now hold it back to back.
Same size.
Now get a decent ruler and measure the cases from several angles...
... the new sub and, therefore the new SD, is not a 40mm watch...
It was only £500 more but a DSSD is now over £8k new....the old 16600's have not kept in line with the price rises of it's replacement.
Why? Because it's a completely different watch for a completely different buyer.....
The DSSD has it's own niche market and is adored by many of it's owners but it shouldn't be compared with the old 16600.
The rise in the 16600 is partly down to there not being an alternative once the DSSD launched (and dealers putting the 'new' replacement value DSSD on ads so these looked cheaper), partly down to them being hyped as 'last of the real seadwellers' and partly being hyped as a modern 'investment' purchase with people buying multiples and many not wearing them at all.
The launch of this new SD might have an impact on all the above. The saving grace for the 16600 may just be that at £7k it's high enough to not impact price wise.
If you like the DSSD because of it's ultimate statement engineering, then a new SDc will not scratch that particular itch. There's still a good market for the DSSD with its unique product characteristics.
If you didn't like the DSSD (too big, 'the writing' whatever...) and bought an old SD instead, the new model could well make you sell up as it seems improved in every way.
If I really liked the new Sea Dweller I can't see myself buying an older SD instead because it's a bit cheaper.
So how could prices for old Seadwellers go up dramatically? Can't see it myself, although the previous models of Rolex sports do seem to keep track with the new at a reduced level - so maybe that phenomenon will result in a rise in old SD prices!
I have a SubC and expect the value to stay stable. It's so popular with the mass market that a few dive watch WIS won't be able to have much effect.
In hindsight, did Rolex do it all the wrong way round that's all with the DSSD?
Should it have gone...
16610 to 116610 SubC 1st
14060 to 114060 SubC 2nd
16600 to 116600 SD ceramic 3rd
Releasing the DSSD after these models in that order would have created less of a shock to people and it would have seemed more of a progressive step. The way it happened though meant that the DSSD was too much of an instant departure from the classic models and therefore a lot of current owners held on to their originals, whereas Rolex now attracted a new market of people that wasn't as large. This was probably the idea of course as it's doubtful they aim only at WIS!
The SD will rectify the effect for older-model SD owners I think, and I can see a lot of them going to current owners who want new technologies in a similar watch. The price may be £7k but using your old SD as a stepping stone will make it a relatively easy move, especially if the SD values increase.
I see the SD affecting SubC sales more than I do with the DSSD though. The DSSD is a different market. I love it because of the statement it makes, whereas the SD is a pretty standard Rolex Diver. It doesn't really push too many boundaries like the DSSD does, whether those be positive or negative.
Quite taken by the new SD.
I love that they stuck to 40mm case, and love the matte dial.
"In keeping"?
'Unworn' previous model SeaDweller on SC now, but not sure if it's still got stickers. £6k, though - Gulp! Less than £1k extra for new model wins in my book. Others may prefer the classic model, but I'd need a fully stickered model before I'd take a punt.
I know it may look high - but realistically, how much would a 16600 SD be if it was still in the current line-up? How much were the last GMT's and Explorers before they were completely phased out? From memory the SD was over £4200 6 years ago, but even the COSC version of the Sub was £4190 (could have even had an increase from that) at last retail, and the last of them all found homes quite quickly!
There will always be those that prefer a previous model, but in some cases the previous model is just simply a better style - look at 993 Porsche's for example - just because it is newer, better made, fancier materials etc. does not make it better, for some.
I'm pleased there is a new model SD out (although it should have had the DSSD clasp for the price, and makes the DSSD look like a lot of watch for the money; maybe too much watch for some), and it does look very good indeed - the price is a little high for me, and being realistic the money would be better spent not on a 16600, but on a 1665, which is itself a lot rarer. I'd like to have them all - but that would mean letting go of some of my Subs, and I not quite ready to make that decision just yet - maybe by the time the new SD is available it will be a different matter.
It's just a matter of time...
That's a fairly special watch from a collector's perspective (at least as much so as a modern Rolex can be). Very very few V Serial watches have been sold on the forums since I've been keeping track. They represent the absolute last of the 16600 generation and sell at a premium relative to M and earlier models. Most are sitting in safes somewhere.
As I said on another thread, I reckon there will be some hiccoughs and blips in 16600 prices while everyone gets used to the new SD4000 (which I reckon will have a mighty waiting list initially) but it'll all settle down in time. There will be those who value a 16600 over the SD4000 because they see it as the 'real' SD and view the SD4000 as a cynical marketing exercise. There will also be those who prefer the SD4000 because it's like the 16600 but with a better bracelet and ceramic bezel. At the end of the day I reckon there will be a market for both, but the meteoric price rises of the 16600 might settle down a bit. Older SDs will be completely unaffected I reckon.
I like the SD4000 and might try one on at some point, but I don't think I can see myself handing over my 16600 plus a four figure sum for the upgrade....
Asked my Rolex AD yesterday when they were expecting the first new Sea Dweller's in
They said "New What" ?
I said "New Sea Dweller 4000"
They said "Didn't know there was one, we'll get back to you"
I am now first on their list apparently
If the lugs are narrower than my Sub C the SD will be the keeper and the Sub C will get flipped
I'd still really like to try a 16600 though
I'm not sure about an own goal but considering that Rolex increased the size of the Explorer & ExpII it seems surprising they didn't do the same with the new SD when there's a clear gap in terms of size between the Sub & DSSD.
Price elasticity, substitional goods... honestly it could go either way... drive prices up of the old SD or down.
I don't see how anyone could categorically say one way or another.
It's certainly going to be interesting wrt used values. The old SD was arguably overvalued as the non-cyclops high WR version of the Subc - the DSSD - was too much for many, but now there is a new version with the improved bracelet and maxi dial, there is a viable alternative to the old SD.
There will always be traditionalists (who want the old SD), there will always be some that want the ultimate (the DSSD), but Rolex (as ever) been very clever filling the niche with the SDc. This is bound to take some sales from used SDs.
If you own one they are going up, if you don't they are going down. That's the given formula I think
I love that!
However, there's an unworn, 'stickered' 16600 on Chrono24 in Italy for around £5,100 at the moment, with over 500 SD's for sale of varying condition.
The problem for me, as a buyer, is the lack of clean models that aren't NOS/stickered. It seems that they're either sporting rounded chamfers and incomplete sets or they're NOS time capsules. I don't want either.
Simple solution - buy a NOS version and wear it in.
Maybe I just got lucky; I've got first refusal on a full set SD from 2007 from my local AD at £5200 when it gets back from a full service at RSC.
In the meantime I bought one in the watchfinder 72 hour sale which is a 2002 model with box but no papers except a RSC warranty card dated November 2013 so nearly a full 2 year Rolex warranty.
So they're definitely out there to be had.
Then I get to pay the stupid collector premium and watch $2,500 vanish the second I pull off a sticker. I'd rather just add a $1,000 and get this new SD.
That's over $8,500. Maybe it's the shit dollar that's making these expensive over here.
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