Reply With QuoteDon't have an answer I'm afraid but I'd also like to know what the minimum of good quality items are for bracelet swaps and resizing etc.
Guessing a Bergeon 6767f plus a decent screwdriver.
What / Which screwdriver
Looking to buy a decent screwdriver for link removal and general use .
What / which size screwdriver would be best to buy ? Looking for slotted , and from an all round size usability and value for money aspect.
Thanks in advance .........
Don't have an answer I'm afraid but I'd also like to know what the minimum of good quality items are for bracelet swaps and resizing etc.
Guessing a Bergeon 6767f plus a decent screwdriver.
I must be a cheapskate because for the last 10 years I've used a screwdriver set that cost me 99p from a pound shop.
I've used it for many a Rolex, Piaget, Omega, Breitling etc.
I'm sure a £30 Bergeon would be nicer but as long as you have a steady hand you should be ok. An expensive tool with a shaky hand would cause more damage.
Have a look on Cousins website. A & F are the ones I use, buying replacement blades at around 50p each. Cousins own brand blades are cheaper but not as good. Bracelet screws tend to have fairly broad slots compared to movement screws, and it may be necessary to dress the ends of the blades to give a broader edge. 1.0mm and 1.2mm are likely to be most useful.
Trying to use the cheap ones available in DIY shops is a waste of time.
Paul
If you are resizing a bracelet from a new Rolex then you have to break the locktight holding the screw in place, this can be tricky and tight, Bergeon or a Panerai screwdriver are the best for this job.
Do you then have to re-loctight it or does the existing gunk on the screw suffice.
Originally Posted by IAmATeaf
No they tighten in just fine (when new) but if it's an old bracelet/screws then some could do with a blob on the end, to help them stop working loose.
A bit of heat is the best way.......hold it briefly in a gas flame to soften the locking compound. A dab of locktite is a sensible precaution when refitting, it's there for a reason.
Paul
Thats right Paul a bit of heat does the job.
1.6mm is the best all rounder for bracelet work.
Cheap screwdrivers are made out of soft metal and will tend to deform, twist the end off or break the corners off the blade.
That's really not what you want to happen when you're trying to undo a tight screw right in the middle of lots of nice polished chrome or stainless steel case back or bracelet.
I bought a set of cheap-ish screwdrivers to use, cost about £15. They did the above, the corners of the blade snapped off / rounded off making them worse than useless, a friend recommended getting a decent set of Bergeon screwdrivers but I initially balked at paying over £100 for a set of really small screwdrivers.
As soon as I got them they were just so much better to use, the blades fitted into the screw heads properly with no slipping around or out, they didn't deform or bend, the end of the blades were the exact width they should be so fitted in lovely and removed all screws no problem.
Spend the money and get a decent set (or just one or two), it's well worth it.
I don't doubt your advice, Paul, but which Loctite should you use for reassembly? Are not some of them resistant to temperature?
For info; from Loctite's FAQs:
Q: How can I remove a fastener that is "permanently" locked in?
A: The application of heat is needed to remove a fastener that can't be removed with a hand tool. Temperatures of 325F and above is needed to break down a standard anaerobic, 500F for high temperature Anaerobics. A heat gun or propane torch is commonly used to do this process, and careful disassembly should occur while parts are still hot. Once apart, and cooled, use methylene chloride (Chisel #79040) to remove cured excess material. Always wipe down the fasteners with clean up solvent to remove the wax film that Chisel leaves on the surface.
There are different temperature ranges available. There's also thread lock and stud lock........several variants are available and we tend to refer to them generically as 'loctite'!
For bracelet screws, it's all about stopping them from coming loose. The lowest-duty threadlock should be OK. I use some thread-lock from Halfords for fitting crowns onto stems and that's fine for most things. However, if fitting a threaded case tube, a higher spec studlock should be used.
There's a temptation to over-tighten small screws such as bracelet screws. It's not hard to shear the screw and leave the threads in the bracelet link and that's why you shouldn`t reply on overtightening to keep them firm.
As for relying on the dirt and gunk to keep it tight........yes, I guess it might, but it obviously makes sense to clean everything up and do the job properly. All too easy to damage the threads if dirt etc is present, and that would spoil your day!
Paul
A search for Loctite on TZ-UK finds recommendations for 221, 222, 242 & 243, so I looked up their specs (Product Catalogue pages 11 & 12). In summary they are:
Product
ColourLoctite 221
Strength
Breakaway torque
Thixotropy
Fixture time stainless steel
Comments
PurpleLoctite 222
Low
8.5 Nm
No
210 min
Low strength, Low viscosity, small threads
PurpleLoctite 241
Low
6 Nm
Yes
360 min
Low strength, general purpose
Blue opaqueLoctite 242
Medium
11.5 Nm
No
240 min
Medium strength, Low viscosity, small threads
BlueLoctite 243
Medium
11.5 Nm
Yes
20 min
Medium strength, medium viscosity, general purpose
Blue
Medium
26 Nm
Yes
10 min
Medium strength, general purpose, oil tolerant
Take your pick...!
Or if it's a strap dip it in a cup of hot water and leave for 30 seconds. .
Thanks Bob.....but I still struggle to know which to use! Omega use something fairly tough for screwing He valves into SMP cases and I`d love to know which of these is equivalent, then I`d use it. My fear is using something too strong and being unable to get stuff apart again.
Paul
I see that Ofrei list 222 & 243, then also Loctite 290 with the comment that the latter is "used in watchmaking to fix the crown's tubes." It's properties are:
Product
ColourLoctite 290
Strength
Breakaway torque
Thixotropy
Fixture time stainless steel
Comments
Green
Medium/High
10 Nm
No
60 min
Medium/high strength, wicking grade
...could that be the one to use for Omega He valves?
Ofrei also list Loctite 2701, saying it is a "high strength threadlocker for fasteners up to 20 mm" and "intended for parts that do not require disassembly".
Ofrei then list two Loctite Retaining Compounds (603 & 638) which are used to "secure bearings, bushes and cylindrical parts into housings or onto shafts", rather than on threaded components. They comment that 603 is "like 638 but thicker" and (guess what) 638 is "like 603 but thinner".
For reference, their principle properties are:
Product
ColourLoctite 603
Tensile shear strength in N/mm2
Thixotropy
Fixture time steel
Comments
GreenLoctite 638
> 22.5
No
8 min
High strength, oil tolerant
Green
> 25
No
4 min
High strength, general purpose
There are many more Loctite retaining compounds listed on pages 31 & 31 of their Product Catalogue.
Cousins have a similar list 222, 243, 270, 2701, 290, 603 & 638. So, for completeness:
Product
ColourLoctite 270
Strength
Breakaway torque
Thixotropy
Fixture time stainless steel
Comments
GreenLoctite 2701
High
33 Nm
No
150 min
High strength, general purpose, oil tolerant
Green
High
38 Nm
No
25 min
High strength, especially for chromated surfaces
Last edited by PickleB; 8th May 2014 at 00:16.
As an engineer and sometime watchmaker.........Loctite 222 is the one to use for bracelet screws. You only need the tiniest droplet.
Last edited by Mouse; 8th May 2014 at 12:41. Reason: damn typo!
What about nail polish? I use that and for bracelet screws it works fine.
Cheers, I`ll go with that when I replace my current stuff. I`ll also get something stronger for the heavy duty stuff.
Paul
You only need use 222. The smallest amount. The other stuff can be too strong. The lock seal Sinn use is very good too. If you ever need to undo with the other stuff you will struggle
Ismaaeel
Last edited by speedish; 8th May 2014 at 19:35.
This is the stuff I use, tiny amount on the threads (the gunk on new rolex screws are fine though).
The blue 243 works for just about any use although technically the purple would be better for watch parts as is more suited to fine threads & is less strong a bond. As long as you stay well away from the red (permanent) loctite then you shouldn't have any problems cracking the screws off later either with a decent screwdriver (push as well as turn), mild heat or solvent.
The key to a good loctite bond is getting the threads really clean first but for bracelet screws I wouldn't worry as you just want them not to come loose rather than a full strength bond.
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