I don't have a Grand Seiko, but if one were to drop that kind of cash on one, where would one get it serviced when it was due? Ship the darn thing back to the Land of the Rising Sun?
I don't think that Seiko USA deals with GS watches, or services them, and to my knowledge neither does Seiko (name of locale here).
Do you guys see that as a real barrier to get people to take a chance on them? I mean, they are expensive and when one buys something expensive it would be nice to have some local support, so to speak. Am I making sense?
:?:
I can't help you directly Tom, but if I were to drop the dough for a GS, the only place I would let touch it would be the Seiko factory in Japan.
I'm a little surprised you would even consider anything else.
Just my $.002USD (= 0.0010139417 sterling :( )
J.
A good trusted local watchmaker can be a really good place to go. If you can find one.
I did, and had several watches serviced there. In one instance, a vintage IWC had been in the shop for a long time, a month or more. When I called them, they were apologetic about the delay. A wheel had needed replacement (that was why it didn't run when I took it in). But regrettably they had been unable to source it. So the senior watchmaker had to fabricate a new one himself, and that had taken longer than he thought 8) The old thing runs and purrs like a charm.
This is where I am taking all my watches!
Cheers,
Gert
Hadn't really thought too much about taking my GS in for a service but it sounds like a great excuse for a holiday in Japan to me !! :D
I was going under the assumption that a local watchmaker might not know the first thing about servicing a GS, and that Seiko uses their own special lubricants and what if it needs (egad!) parts? That is where I was coming from in thinking that the only choice would be Seiko Japan...Originally Posted by Gert
This could all just as well apply to the Spirit line, but with the cost being so much less one might not worry about taking the chance on a local servicing or attempt at servicing. GS is a much larger chunk of change to risk, no? :?:
Even though this does not really apply to me I figured it was an interesting thing to ponder. (ponder, not worry about ;-) )
Now THAT's creative thinking. :twisted:
I would drop Higuchi a line and ask him. I'm sure he's sold GS's to American's before and he would probably be willing to be a middle man if you bought through him.
It was just a pondering. I don't have the cash for a GS and I'm not sure that if I did that I wouldn't go for something like an IWC. I was just wondering, and it does sort of apply to the Spirit as well, when you think about it. Can a local yokel watch guy service a newish Seiko movt? Is servicing this or that movt just a matter of knowing how to take them apart? What about gaskets? How can a watchmaker in another country get GS or even other model Japan-only market watch parts? That's all I was wondering. I guess Higuchi is a person that could be asked, or Seiya, but I didn't get the one I have coming from them. I got it in a trade.
This is in NO WAY a worry though. I mean, it would be a few years at best before it was even an issue and who knows if I would still ahve it or care, but I'm just wondering. It's just a minor curiosity.
I'm sure IWW or some of the other guys that hang out on the Seiko Citizen forum could service the more common low to mid range stuff. The real expensive stuff I would buy through Higuchi or Seiya because I am confident they would help with getting service.
You do have a point though. The 7s26 is a movement that Seiko made tons of but when it comes to the local watch shop, most of them probably have never seen one. I'm afraid a lot of watchmakers in the US struggle with anything more complicated then replacing a battery and checking water resistance.
That's an interesting observation. It's something I've been thinking about with the recent events surrounding a certain brand that I will not name. Every time the name appears in print, everybody starts arguing. I've been wondering, exactly what makes an IWC more appealing than a Grand Seiko? I find myself looking less and less for the "Swiss Made" label since I really don't feel like that is any kind of guarentee anymore. Personally, I think I might lean toward a Grand Seiko and get a unique in house movement rather than pay for an IWC that has the same movement as a Hamilton. Which brand has more asian parts, IWC or Seiko? I'm not sure I know the answer to that anymore.
Anyway, I'm sorry for getting off topic. I really didn't mean to hijack, I just wanted to see if 1600 posts gets me a new rank.
Crap. No new rank.
You must be talkin'bout those g*damn Rolexes!
Man, anybody that buys a friggin' Rolex needs to have their head examined.
Are they even made in Switzerland?
J.
*edit* I've added some content so hopefully someone reading this a month
or a year later will not take my comments out of context. :D
Steady, steady.
IWC uses ETA abauches but also has some of their own stuff. I was just throwing out their name. It could be another.That's an interesting observation. It's something I've been thinking about with the recent events surrounding a certain brand that I will not name. Every time the name appears in print, everybody starts arguing. I've been wondering, exactly what makes an IWC more appealing than a Grand Seiko? I find myself looking less and less for the "Swiss Made" label since I really don't feel like that is any kind of guarentee anymore. Personally, I think I might lean toward a Grand Seiko and get a unique in house movement rather than pay for an IWC that has the same movement as a Hamilton. Which brand has more asian parts, IWC or Seiko? I'm not sure I know the answer to that anymore.
Anyway, I'm sorry for getting off topic. I really didn't mean to hijack, I just wanted to see if 1600 posts gets me a new rank.
Look, if I had bags of cash I'd have moat of them, IWC, Lange, etc and GS.... For me, if I could raise a nice chunk for a higher premium watch, I'm probably still a bit of a snob - or couldn't see myself spending it on something with the Seiko name. I know it's wrong. I know it's stupid. I know, I know......
I inquired of Seiya-San regarding servicing of Japan Only watches. He advised me to send it to the AD of Record (on the paperwork of my Spirit) and remind them it had been purchased through them. He assured me that they would handle it, either in house or through the Seiko Facotry Service Center in Japan as appropriate.I was going under the assumption that a local watchmaker might not know the first thing about servicing a GS, and that Seiko uses their own special lubricants and what if it needs (egad!) parts? That is where I was coming from in thinking that the only choice would be Seiko Japan...
This could all just as well apply to the Spirit line, but with the cost being so much less one might not worry about taking the chance on a local servicing or attempt at servicing. GS is a much larger chunk of change to risk, no? :?:
Even though this does not really apply to me I figured it was an interesting thing to ponder. (ponder, not worry about ;-) )
Omega USA in New Jersey has a LOUSY reputation and many that I know here with Vintage Omega's send them to Bienne for service and rave about the level of care their watches receive. Is that so different from sending a GS to Seiko Japan?
I guess not.
I don't have a Seiko GM yet but I have looked at them. I would never let a local watchmaker crack one open. It would be no different then taking your Lexas in to the local neighborhood mechanic. He may know how to change spark plugs but the inside of that motor would be as unfamiliar to him as brain surgery.
I think in todays world, you just Fedex the watch back home and have the factory service it so it is done right the first time. It is too expensive of a watch to bugger it up.
I also felt they same way when I first started to hear about high end Seiko's. Who would pay $3-4000 for a frigging Seiko. I read they have some special edition precious metal stuff for over a $100,000. Hard to believe. After seeing one, you could understand why they are worth it. Great watch!
Cheers,
David
There we go, I call this perception, something most people semm to want to ignore....the other day I drove Vw big thinggy, forgot the name, the one that looks like the audi A8 and designed to be the best car in the world, wile according to Jeremy Clarkson ' failing miserably'. Well, superbly well made, quieter and quicker then an S class, and feels safer on the road as well, just as luxurious...but who pays 70k for a Vw?
The GS is just a regular watch chronometer rated. No more, no less. Its insides are not too diferent from a 'normal' watch or normal seiko, and as such most competent watchmakers should be able to service it correctly. As for the mabo jambo oils etc....same scenario, some cars take syntetic, others mineral, others a specific oil, if this is known, then the correct oil can also be used. My local chap will service anything apart from tunning forks and on those he has no problems dealing with the mechanical side of it. When asked he admited he would not touch a tourbillon and would avoid a repeater like the plague but would do one if necessary. Watch machines, apart from very odd ones, have not really progressed in the same way car engines have. And even car engines, electronic malarky removed, is pretty much the same as 30 years ago.
My long 2c
Snoopy
Exactly.
Of course a spring drive is another matter altogether. :shock:
Cheers,
Neil.
I would have to agree and the same can be said of all the Swiss equivelants I suppose, Omega, Breitling, Rolex, Iwc, Tag, the list goes on.
I would still love to own a GS at some point though.
Cheerio
Would that be the VW Pheaton?
There we go, I call this perception, something most people semm to want to ignore....the other day I drove Vw big thinggy, forgot the name, the one that looks like the audi A8 and designed to be the best car in the world, wile according to Jeremy Clarkson ' failing miserably'. Well, superbly well made, quieter and quicker then an S class, and feels safer on the road as well, just as luxurious...but who pays 70k for a Vw?
The GS is just a regular watch chronometer rated. No more, no less. Its insides are not too diferent from a 'normal' watch or normal seiko, and as such most competent watchmakers should be able to service it correctly. As for the mabo jambo oils etc....same scenario, some cars take syntetic, others mineral, others a specific oil, if this is known, then the correct oil can also be used. My local chap will service anything apart from tunning forks and on those he has no problems dealing with the mechanical side of it. When asked he admited he would not touch a tourbillon and would avoid a repeater like the plague but would do one if necessary. Watch machines, apart from very odd ones, have not really progressed in the same way car engines have. And even car engines, electronic malarky removed, is pretty much the same as 30 years ago.
My long 2c
Snoopy
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Snoopy is right.I would have to agree and the same can be said of all the Swiss equivelants I suppose, Omega, Breitling, Rolex, Iwc, Tag, the list goes on.
I would still love to own a GS at some point though.
Cheerio
It's all the same principle, that's been in use for centuries without real changes.
Differences in the movements aren't really big. The finish can differ and so the materials used, but in the end any well trained/educated watchmaker can do a good job.
You would be surprised how many expensive cars are really easy to service. Don't think there is any difference whatsoever between a Lexus and a VW. The principles are the same, the only area that might be harder to deal with is electronics.
By the way: no GS here, but a Seiko Presmatic 5106 incoming ;)
This may come as a complete surprise, but the country of origin and the "perception" that country presents has nothing
to do with it for me. It's purely the idea of having the original factory, no matter if it be Omega in Bienne, or Seiko in Japan,
do the work on such a valuable watch. I envy and respect those that have commented that they have found trustworthy and
talented watchmakers they would entrust this work to, but that is far from my experience. Maybe a list of these "worthy" watchmakers should be published?
I can't comment on the specifics, but there is no doubt that all high end brands, whether they be a car or a watch,
use proprietary parts and technology that may only be available to the manufacturer.
Neil mentioned the SpringDrive as an example. I know we're talking about the GS
but are we/Snoopy sure that the GS presents no watch servicing "issues"?
The GS may very well be just be "another watch" under the hood, but
for my money, and peace of mind, I wouldn't want to take a chance.
Just my $.002USD (= 0.00101491931 Sterling :( )
P.S. I edited my reply made yesterday for the sake of posterity.
J.
J.,
One thing I've noted since I've been frequenting TZ-UK is that most members here are not in the US :shock: . It seems to me that the members in the UK have a MUCH higher number of choices when it comes to a watchmaker than do most of us in the US. I've also noted that many of the EU posters refer to the watchmaker down the street in their posts. Here in Atlanta (Metro area of 5 million) we have two - TWO- watchmakers that anyone I know would even consider using for anything and both charge more than sending an Omega to Bienne (including shipping both ways). I know that its different in NYC and probably a few other places in the US but here and the last few places I've lived in the US the local watch guy was NOT a realistic choice for anything beyond a Swatch battery change or strap adjustment.
It's a Grand Seiko spring drive i have (GMT one) and i would be happier either sending it to Japan or travelling there myself with it to get it serviced (fancy a holiday there anyway!! :D ).
I have a local watchmaker here who looks after all my other watches but the spring drive is a completely different beast and i would only want someone trained specifically to deal with SD's even opening it !! :D
Robert,
Very good post/point, I couldn't have said it better, and should have elaborated on it better in my post.
The state of watch repair in the States is dismal indeed. :(
J.
I 2nd what Robert said and I was referring to the spring drive GS when I said I would only let the factory touch it. I am sure a good watchmaker could service a standard movement.
I also would add on my car analogy that since I own an automobile dealership as well as a service facility, I have a bit of experience with this topic and yes all internal combustion motors function essentially the same. Fuel, air and spark, away you go..NOT any more.
Motors are more complex then ever. Every manufacturer spends millions (as well as the dealers) on training their technicians on the specifics of their products. Special tools are a commonplace today. The local guy can not match the overall quality and expertise of a trained factory tech no matter how good he is on the basics.
Just my opinion..
David
Sorry, I couldn't resist. That is not meant to be nasty or rude. I just couldn't resist, you see.... ...and I did notice your :shock: which means I know that you know, but I still couldn't resist...
pleeease enough with the political correctness, bash him in the head and move on...</a>
*take note of my method.
J.
Thanks. Just wanted to make it clear to folks in the UK that things are not the same the world around when it comes to service for watches. I'd be very happy to send my GS (if I ever get one) to Seiko Japan for service. I'm considering sending my c861 to Bienne.Robert,
Very good post/point, I couldn't have said it better, and should have elaborated on it better in my post.
The state of watch repair in the States is dismal indeed. :(
J.
That's ok, I know its obvious but you know many don't really get it that its a real blessing to have a choice in watchmakers within 50 miles.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. That is not meant to be nasty or rude. I just couldn't resist, you see.... ...and I did notice your :shock: which means I know that you know, but I still couldn't resist...
Guess I'll get another Capt'n Obvious for this post too :lol:
Or I could just say
or Not.....
David,
You are of course, right, in an ideal world. However, walk into Mercedes Park Lane London, where labour charges run into £100 an hour and the expert servicing your 100k s class is a spotty teen with no experience to speak of, knowladge or care, who gets paid £5 to plug the thing into a computer who tells him of any faults, replace those parts and of you go.
A few years ago I used to have a Bmw M3 (original E30) with a stupid vibration at 4000rpm coming from the engine. It went to Bmw 4 times and nothing...a caractristic they called it...my local (sadly now retired) mechanic took it for a drive, came back, ordered crank bearing, replaced them, ordered a baffled sump, changed it and never again a vibration...and I still did 100k some of it in a circuit. He had the experience to know what to look for, knew I did a bit of circuit driving and knew that without a baffled sump the crank was being starved of oil on fast corners....
Back to subject, specific tools are used...yes, so that guys like the local mechanic will not be able to touch it, more dosh to the dealerships but to be fair, unplug the sensors and you are left with a normal engine that is 50 years old in design. Cylinder heads have changed a little (like watch escapements) but the basics are the same. The only real diference is that your dealership deals day in day out in say Lexus and gets to know them a lot better then the good corner guy that sees all sorts all day long hence specialist on particular cars tend to do so well...in the uk nobody can compete with say Munich Ledgends, Autobanh or Birds for performance beemers per example....a watch guy who specialises in say Omega autos or high beat seikos again cannot be beaten. Like your dealership, that is what they do, day in day out. But charge generally less and usually care usually a lot more for your particular watch.
Snoopy
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
