Is the internet killing off watch shops / watchmakers?

[stix]

Hi folks

I was out and about again last Thursday on the Clerkenwell Road conducting some work and I stumbled across two little watch shops selling pre-owned watches. It was a real pleasant surpise and a joy to be able to browse old, vintage and some new pieces and if my memory serves me well, I am sure there used to be many more shops of this ilke dotted around and about town. Today it appears to be mainly newish shops selling the usual round of Swiss pieces without any universal repair facilities, and so I started pondering the idea that maybe the advent of online selling is "killing" off small trade, and with it, the local watchmaker and repair facility? Don't get me wrong, I love the internet and the opportunities it presents but of late, I have read a number of posts about the difficulty of locating a good and reliable local repair shop and wondered if the two could be linked? Also, I went to the Brunel Clock and Watch fair the other week, which was dissapointing to say the least, although it's a great place to pick up spares and tools but again, I wondered if the internet was having an adverse affect on these sorts of events and would they indeed one day, dissappear altogether?

What do you think?

All the best

[snoopy]

Hi,

Nail on head I think. No doubt, the internet is killing it ALL off, not just the watchmakers industry.
Problem as I see it....I need say a new fountain pen.....know I want say a Montegrappa. I have 2 options.....first, lets get in the car drive to train station, get smelly overcrowded train to say Victoria, then tube to say Bond Street, get wet wile finding a Montegrappa dealer, stumble across his overpriced pens, try a discount which will not happen, reverse journey home total time, one afternoon, total cost plus overpriced pen X. Or I can make a cup uf tea, sit in front of laptop, find pen, great price, delivered 48 hours later.
It is called convenience. I have stated to my wife that in our lifetime, shoping as we know it will be all but extint. She argued. What per say, about Bra's? A women needs to try it on...nope, I argued that herself had bought her last bra in a shop exactly when? She does it online as she knows her size.....I remember wile in the UK ordering my tescos shoping wile in the office, to be delivered later that evening..... I could carry on.
The internet has allowed for cheaper prices against which normal retailers cannot compete...they will eventually close as overheads increase but not turnover or profit. For those of us who like to try things on before we buy the internet has responded with a returns timeframe...I am also sure that Mr Smiths the old jeweller who used to repair watches will disapear....mostly, watches today are not really worth repairing as such...it is usually cheaper to buy another ETA machine for that Omega then have it serviced by them. The son of Mr. Smith may or not continue the family business, but not at the same shop under same conditions. I have a feeling that vintage watch restauration/ servicing/ repair will carry on....at a price, internet based anyway.
In a way a complete shame, but what we call progress...I wonder.
Snoopy

[Keith]

I would disagree that the internet is killing off sellers, rather, it is forcing sellers to adapt to a new ecosystem. If one goes back in time I am sure many examples of changing business methodologies come to mind--an obivious one is the Sears catalogue in the nineteenth century. As to makers, I would imagine it is a boon as the market availability now becomes incredibly larger. Allow me to use examples.

For sellers: I live in Chicago, a town of about 3 million people. Last year I wanted to buy an automatic watch but could not afford the usual offerings (Rolex, Omega, etc.). I was able to buy a Zeno from the Zeno folks in Texas. This year I plan on buying a watch from Time Zone which we all know is in England. Both businesses adapted to the changing ecosystem and are surviving.

For a maker: I make cejillas which are wood capos used by guitarists (cejillas are the capos used by flamenco guitarists). I sell my cejillas through 2 on-line guitar related businesses. To date I have sold about 160 over the past 3 years. Had it not been for the internet I would not have sold any.

For the person who does not adapt the outcome is largely similiar to what happens to species--if you cannot adapt to a changing ecosystem, you will die off. This is not to say one should not shun the little guy who is not selling over the internet--but eventually the laws of nature do catch up.

[draz]

I should think that, if anything, the internet is saving the last few watchmakers/shops that are in existence. Enthusiast forums like this have us buying s/h watches, customizing them with parts from all over the world, servicing them, attempting to do the work ourselves and buggering it up, and who do we turn to? Our local, friendly, reputable watchmaker.

Speaking from strictly personal experience, I've passed £100+ worth of business to my local watchmaker in just the last six months, something that would never have happened if it were not for the internet (and TZ-UK in particular!)

I would also put operations like Eddie's Timefactors, Yao's MkII Watches, Jörg Stauer's Stowa, and Taylor's RLT in the category of "small watchmakers". Again, I should think that they owe their existence and success in large part to the fact that the internet enables them to find a larger customer base than they would otherwise. (No, I'm not trying to detract from other important factors of success, like hard work, good service, or quality products.)

What is killing of the local watchmaker is the same thing that's killing of the local grocery shop, your local cobbler, and any number of other small, locally run shops that used to exist: the economics of scale. With players the size of the Swatch group, Seiko, Citizen, and the other giants it is difficult to compete competitively outside of a niche market. Add advertising, FUD, and the WIS-ignorance (not to mention quality-ignorance) of your general public into the equation and that's what's doing it. Without the internet around, I strongly suspect that we'd see even fewer of the local watchmakers and repair shops around.

One of the interesting things about the internet is that it, to some extent, restores the power balance back in favour of the small guy. Read about the economics of the "long tail" to see why this is the case. Low overhead costs and the power of communities are other factors.

[xpatUSA]

In a way a complete shame, but what we call progress...I wonder.

The duality of the human spirit . . . to love the convenience of the superstore with everything you need in one visit and then to bemoan the sad loss of the old-fashioned butcher's shop where the guy addresses you by name and knows what you want.

Somewhat OT, but do you remember the predicted demise of the Post Office when e-mail became the vogue? Since then, e-mail has increased e-business and hence the need to mail goods and services. Not to mention the incredible rise of eBay et al, leading to even more mail business, gratefully accepted by Carriers worldwide.

There's another benefit enjoyed by the Post Office. Internet business usually involves revealing one's address. This is promptly sold to or shared by everybody and his dog - resulting in a constant flood of junk mail in my mail box :evil:

[snoopy]

Superb points above....we are of course talking about businesses that have grown since the internet boom.....totally agree with it....

But I think the question was if it would kill the small local shop....10 years ago, if any of us wanted a new watch we would go into a jewellers, big or small, and bought one. Today we turn to ebay, timefactors and the like...ie the local shop is perhaps the last port of call...Joe Smith used to sell 40 watches a week...now he sells 10, if he is lucky.

My local jeweller here in Spain tells me bravely, I sell no watches anymore, but repair many...that is how we live today...in 10 years I will not be able to do so (bad eyesight etc) my son wants to be a lawyer so the business will cease to exist.
Adapting is not always possible and we are not talking about big boys, only the small friendly chap.

Granted, bless the internet, bless ebay and the like. 20 years ago you could not find say a bonnet for a 1970 bmw csl, today the internet will bring you dozens....life is easier and cheaper, but for many, who cannot/ will not / do not know how to adapt....it will be the end, even if without the internet they could have carried on going for many more years....no doubt, the end for many small guys and increased competition for the big ones.
Snoopy

[stix]

I should think that, if anything, the internet is saving the last few watchmakers/shops that are in existence. Enthusiast forums like this have us buying s/h watches, customizing them with parts from all over the world, servicing them, attempting to do the work ourselves and buggering it up, and who do we turn to? Our local, friendly, reputable watchmaker.

Speaking from strictly personal experience, I've passed £100+ worth of business to my local watchmaker in just the last six months, something that would never have happened if it were not for the internet (and TZ-UK in particular!)

I would have to agree with your observations but I suppose what I am driving at is, where traditionaly you would have sales and repairs through a retail outlet, due to internet sales you are "killing off" the retail sales element and therefore in tandem "killing off" the repairs as well. Therefore, you go online and buy a great watch at a great price and then you need it serviced or repaired, where do you go? Maybe repair only outlets will appear or maybe all repairs will be conducted over the internet? I suppose my points are fairly obvious as I am no economics graduate but I also like the aspect of being able to see the actual products and get a feel for them as well, especially if they cost a lot of money plus you get to meet the person on the other side of the counter.

[Bernard]

My watchmaker is always busy on one or two of my watches.

Some of the guys I know in the Netherlands also turn to him every month!

The guy makes a living on the amount of repairs from WIS-ses who overload him with their old junk that has to be repaired ;)

[Gruntfuttock]

London prices are doing their best to kill off 'traditional' watch dealers.

[draz]

[...] I also like the aspect of being able to see the actual products and get a feel for them as well, especially if they cost a lot of money plus you get to meet the person on the other side of the counter.

Ah, but that's a different issue altogether. To answer that, get out a stack of bibles, place your left hand on them, raise your right hand, and answer the following points truthfully:

(a) You would never, ever first go to your local watch shop and try on a nice watch, decide that you want it, and then buy it cheaper through an internet shop.

(b) Each time you popped into your local watch shop to browse what they've got and have a chat, you'd purchase something that at least compensates them wages wise for the time they devote to you.

(c) If you were to stumble across a very nice watch somewhere other than your local watch shop, you'd only buy it after having checked your local shop and discovering that they don't have it and are unable to obtain it for you.

If you answered anything other than "yes" to any of these questions, you'll know why the local watch shop isn't doing too well these days.

It isn't the internet per se which is "killing off" the local watch shop, it's consumer behaviour. The internet merely provides consumers (and, let's not forget, also retailers) with the ability to behave differently. I hear a lot of people lament the disappearance of the little local shop, but when faced with real life choice with a noticeable economic impact, it is uncommon to find them favouring the local shop over the cheaper option -- whatever it may be.

As has been noted by others: new communications technology changes the nature of the game. The internet has the interesting phenomenon of driving both extremes of the spectrum, while whittling down the middle section. There is a larger concentration of general crap and a greater availability of esoteric high-end quality, but the former glut of middle-ground mixed quality players who survived by virtue of limited communication (i.e., captured local markers) is disappearing.

Personally, I welcome that change. And yes, I do -- sometimes -- favour my local shop's more expensive goods to the cheaper but identical items available elsewhere. But not always.

[stix]

Ah, but that's a different issue altogether. To answer that, get out a stack of bibles, place your left hand on them, raise your right hand, and answer the following points truthfully:

(a) You would never, ever first go to your local watch shop and try on a nice watch, decide that you want it, and then buy it cheaper through an internet shop.

(b) Each time you popped into your local watch shop to browse what they've got and have a chat, you'd purchase something that at least compensates them wages wise for the time they devote to you.

(c) If you were to stumble across a very nice watch somewhere other than your local watch shop, you'd only buy it after having checked your local shop and discovering that they don't have it and are unable to obtain it for you.

If you answered anything other than "yes" to any of these questions, you'll know why the local watch shop isn't doing too well these days.

It isn't the internet per se which is "killing off" the local watch shop, it's consumer behaviour. The internet merely provides consumers (and, let's not forget, also retailers) with the ability to behave differently. I hear a lot of people lament the disappearance of the little local shop, but when faced with real life choice with a noticeable economic impact, it is uncommon to find them favouring the local shop over the cheaper option -- whatever it may be.

As has been noted by others: new communications technology changes the nature of the game. The internet has the interesting phenomenon of driving both extremes of the spectrum, while whittling down the middle section. There is a larger concentration of general crap and a greater availability of esoteric high-end quality, but the former glut of middle-ground mixed quality players who survived by virtue of limited communication (i.e., captured local markers) is disappearing.

Personally, I welcome that change. And yes, I do -- sometimes -- favour my local shop's more expensive goods to the cheaper but identical items available elsewhere. But not always.
_________________
Martin

Mmm, some really interesting observations and my head is now starting to ache with having to filtre all the info, ouch. I'll ponder some more and maybe get back with my musings, or have a lie down or better still, browse the internet :roll: :wink:

[abraxas]

.. Is the internet killing off watch shops / watchmakers?


What do you think?

.............

The internet will continue to re-direct money towards more worth while sources for timekeepers.

john

[Mrcrowley]

I agree it may not be good at all for small second hand traders.

But many probably got a website?

Plus folk like myself would be knackered without web. Even though I would love to go to a shop first & see the watch. I but 98% of my watches unseen. Why I try find actual pics rather than catalogue ones.

[Crusader]

The internet gives me the opportunity to support a small business in Sheffield, of all places.

A customer lost in my local town is another customer for a small, smart shop-owner elsewhere.

Zero-sum game for me, mostly.

[swanbourne]

I get half a dozen or so calls a month from local people asking if I can repair their watch or clock. I always tell them I don't do repairs but direct them to a local repair shop. He doesn't always thank me for this, stating he already has more work than he can handle.

If he would embrace the Net, no doubt he would have more work but he doesn't want it. I'm pretty sure that any bricks & mortar business offering personal service and value for money will thrive, it's only when you follow the Jessops business model that things go pear shaped.

Eddie

[mart broad]

.. Is the internet killing off watch shops / watchmakers?


What do you think?

.............

The internet will continue to re-direct money towards more worth while sources for timekeepers.

john

John

Totally agree with you on this, makes a change :wink:

Prime example,as many know my tastes run to German watches,Stowa,UTS,Sinn,Damasko etc without the net where do i go to buy?the same can be said for my Anonimo addiction and on and on.

Was in London yesterday thought i would poke my nose in the usual watering holes as its sale time W of S was shut for refurb,Selfridges nothing and E Jones the usual suspects,came home poured a beer then poured over the net.

Martin

[VinceR]

.. Is the internet killing off watch shops / watchmakers?


What do you think?

.............

The internet will continue to re-direct money towards more worth while sources for timekeepers.

john

I also agree, although I do on occassion browse the net for a certain watch then look to see if there are any 'local' (ie. within 50 mile radius) shops. I then grab the better half and make a day of it. I'm one of the odd males who actually enjoys wondering around the shops (except supermarkets!) & will inevitably buy either a watch, polo shirt, trainers, etc. on our 'day out' as well as a meal & a beer or two ..

I think the internet is both good & bad, provided the shop owner embraces it all will be well otherwise it'll not.

/vince ..