Reply With QuoteI think Ocean7 aren't having any probs with their LM6 I believe...
With all the hassle Eddie has had with getting a "proper" GMT movement for the Dreadnought GMT, I've been looking to see just who has managed to produce a GMT watch with the quick-set hour hand.
So far I've got..........
Rolex - own movement; Caliber 3185
Omega - own movement; Caliber 1128, (based on ETA 2892-A2)
Blancpain GMT (part of Swatch so assume same movement as Omega?)
Ulysse Nardin GMT +/- UN 22 movement (based on an ETA 2892-A2. The base 2892 movement contains 64 parts. Ulysse Nardin adds another 79 parts in-house to create the final movement consisting of 143 parts.)
Pusher-adjusted GMT complication, patent number CH 685 965.
Grand Seiko SD GMT and Seiko Marinemaster 600m SD GMT - 9S56 movement?
My Japanese is non existent and I have no other info on the movement.
Are there any that I've missed?
Edit.... Add the IWC UTC - IWC cal C.37536 ........ Thanks Olly
It does seem that very few people have managed to achieve this and have patented whatever they have done.
Perhaps we'll have to look to the East? :lol:
I think Ocean7 aren't having any probs with their LM6 I believe...
I wouldn't have any problems either if I went the Chinese route.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
They're using Chinese stuff? Who?
Is the LM6 the Dreadnought copy?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
No way!!!
There´s Ocean 7 on the dial! Did you miss that? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Edit:
That really pisses me off!
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Dunno. I've never seen the DN in the flesh. Some say the O&W watches are like the Rolex Subs but when you seem them together they are quite a bit different.
I sold them for 4 years and never heard that.Originally Posted by Ventura
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I was reading it somewhere. I think the general case shape and design aswell as size.
Getting back on track, ETA won't supply the 2893 with the quickset hour hand modification outside the Swatch group and the modification they make is allegedly patented.
It's easy to find a quartz GMT movement with quickset hour hand but for a mechanical, the only other source I'm aware of (except Swiss proprietory brands) is China.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Please forgive a possibly silly question, but just what defines a ?quick set? UTC hand?
Is the ETA 2893-2 found in my Sinn U2 quick set?
On the 2893-2, when the crown is pulled to the second position, turning it one direction will change the date, turning it the other way will move the 24 hr hand. The regular hour, minute and second hand are unaffectedPlease forgive a possibly silly question, but just what defines a ?quick set? UTC hand?
Is the ETA 2893-2 found in my Sinn U2 quick set?
The above listed watches, when the crown is in the second position, the regular hour hand moves (in one-twelefth rotation jumps), and the 24 hour, regular minute and second hand are unaffected.
Thieves and crooks, that's what they are.Is the LM6 the Dreadnought copy?
Eddie
Eddie, why don't you sue them for design/copyright infringements?
:? Not being rude, but most watches take design cues etc from other watches. I can't get a DN and don't like GMT watches so will buy a Ocean LM6. It seems about the right size etc. It could be considered a hommage.
After all the DN is a hommage to the Rhula and the PloProf isn't it?
[quote="Ventura"]:? Not being rude, but most watches take design cues etc from other watches. I can't get a DN and don't like GMT watches so will buy a Ocean LM6. It seems about the right size etc. It could be considered a hommage.
After all the DN is a hommage to the Rhula and the PloProf isn't it?[/quote]
No, it's much more than that.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
"Copy" or "Imitation" comes to my mind.
Go on Ed extrapolate. I'm interested as I actually would like to get a DN, but as they're rare now aswell as out of my price range, I've had to opt for the Ocean, but a bit of design philosophy of the DN would be interesting.
I'm not going over all that again, especially when you're lifting quotes from other people's posts on RLT.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Eddie
Just consider imitation as the sincerest form of flattery,and know that a watch you produced has made into that next league.
Rolex,Panerai live with it,the DN is a part of horological history that some 200 ( +2? ) are lucky enough to own,unrepeatable.
Martin
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
All you lot are obviously in a totally different league of WISdom from me as no one has commented on the fact that Seiko found a way to accomplish a mechanical GMT quick-set without infringing any patents.
Until I did this bit of research, I hadn't realised that the Seiko SD GMT's were "proper" GMT function. Mind you I hadn't realised just how much of a job it was for UN to find a different way to accomplish it from the 2892 either!
Eddie,
What do the Chinese movements look like? What level of robustness/durability are claimed? Is the movement sizing similar to the ETA?
Quite frankly, if that movement meets or exceeds the spec of the ETA movement (that won't be available outside of the Swatch Group), I don't have any problem with its use.
Consider this, are we seeking to build a watch which meets or exceeds existing specs, while maintaining a somewhat unique design and exceptional value? If this is the concept, what is the problem with non-Swiss movements?
Your mileage may vary...
(...and now I shall put on my flame-proof clothing...You may fire when ready, Gridley...)
Likewise Rolex. I don't know if it would be possible to patent the functionality - it would be rather like patenting a chronograph - only the mechanical implementation of it.
The problem with many so-called "true" GMTs is of course that they can't handle 1/2 hour increments. So if you live in Australia or India and various points in between, they're useless. For that you need a quartz job with a separate display, or something with two independently settable dials - like an Oris Worldtimer or similar.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Like this?Likewise Rolex. I don't know if it would be possible to patent the functionality - it would be rather like patenting a chronograph - only the mechanical implementation of it.
The problem with many so-called "true" GMTs is of course that they can't handle 1/2 hour increments. So if you live in Australia or India and various points in between, they're useless. For that you need a quartz job with a separate display, or something with two independently settable dials - like an Oris Worldtimer or similar.
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
The patent issues being discussed over here have something to do with the used base-ebauche, an ETA 2824/2892, I believe.Likewise Rolex. I don't know if it would be possible to patent the functionality - it would be rather like patenting a chronograph - only the mechanical implementation of it.
The problem with many so-called "true" GMTs is of course that they can't handle 1/2 hour increments. So if you live in Australia or India and various points in between, they're useless. For that you need a quartz job with a separate display, or something with two independently settable dials - like an Oris Worldtimer or similar.
Finding a way to build a GMT function into an existing movement is hard. Doing so, when there is a way that is already patented is even much harder. There is quite a lack of room in those little movements...
Oh, spot on :)Like this?
Maybe that's why Count Dracula from Zenith wears two watches all the time...
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
MarcelloC Tridente GMT.
Dunno if the 1k ones are alike but my 500m GMT has this movement.
Cheers,
I agree with Michael. This thread ought to be about how to get a proper GMT movement and whether the Asian solution is acceptable to TZ-UKers or not (Tom, we already know where you stand :wink: ). It shouldn't be about the DN design influences, which has been covered extensively on this forum and others over the past FOUR YEARS.
Pardon my rant, but I'm so tired of the endless topics that surface monthly on the various watch fora like horologic menstrual periods. Rolex bracelets, Ti v. SS, mil issue watches, homage v. fake, 'alike' watches, waterproof-ness, parts origins. PLEASE: for the folks interested in these endless debates, use the SEARCH function that every forum has and let the rest of us get on with issues like showing photos of new arrivals, debating the merits of movements, and figuring out how to get a much-desired Time Factors watch made.
I haven't handled or seen the Chinese GMT movement Michael although I have heard that it's competent. The problem is not that it is Chinese but that there is no effective distributor channel outside China for spare parts.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Let me get this right: You're saying that the MarcelloC Tridente GMT (500m) is an automatic watch with a quickset HOUR hand, not a quickset 24h hand?
My fave - the IWC UTC.
Cheers, Olly
Thank you Colin for hitting the nail so squarely on the head.
This really was my concern. The little bit of digging about I was able to do quickly showed how few makers have come up with a working "proper" non-quartz GMT. It seems that you either need your own movement - Rolex, Swatch, Seiko, IWC; or go to outrageous lengths (and cost!) like U.N. to develop an add-on module to an existing movement, increasing the parts count from 64 to 143!
If the DN GMT is ever to see the light of day at anything other than stratospheric money, it would appear that; either Eddie would need to compromise his desired specification, or a new movement needs to be found. And we all know where the only new movement factories are don't we :wink:
I'm just keeping a lookout for anything new "from the East" that comes along to join the select group I listed.
Thanks Olly. I've edited the original list to include it.My fave - the IWC UTC.
Cheers, Olly
Yes I am. - And I was wrong. It´s the other way around: the GMT hand moves in 1h intervals, not the hour hand. My mistake. Sorry :roll:Let me get this right: You're saying that the MarcelloC Tridente GMT (500m) is an automatic watch with a quickset HOUR hand, not a quickset 24h hand?
The Chinese 8304 is a GMT movement loosely based on the ETA 2824, or the Miyota, I forget which. The 24 hour hand works like the very first Rolex GMTs. It moves smoothly across the face when the crown is in the second position.
23 jewels, 21,600 bph, bi-directional winding, not bad for the 15 or 20 dollars it cost, but there are some cost cuts I didn't like. The dial side cover for the 24 hour mechanism was held on by screws that had to self-tap their holes. One was stripped from the factory, fortunately, I had a larger screw to replace it with.
Yes, I know it's a statistical sample of one, but, if the watch cost more than $50 it should have a better movement. (the case was probably the most expensive part of that watch.)
This happens on every single forum or mailing list that is unmoderated in the world. It is the price you pay for freedom of expression. Invariably it is the old hands that moan, because they've had four years to figure out the nuances of the search function, while the younger ones (in terms of forum membership) who haven't had a chance to do that yet find themselves characterized as stupid, dumb, ignorant, or just plain lazy.
Sometimes, the particulars of a search function and what gets posted work against you. For example, I quite often search for specific watch models on this forum, but since several members like to post their watch collection in their signature, quite often my searches yield 80% irrelevant results. Sometimes I have the luxury of time to wade through and find the nuggets of gold from 2003. Sometimes I don't.
While I'm a relative newcomer on this forum, I'm an old hand on others. I would like to think that part of becoming older and wiser on the Internet lies in remembering what it was like when you didn't know it all and exercising a little patience towards those who perhaps haven't had quite as much time to figure it all out yet.
Does anyone know anything about this Orient GMT? I see it has an extra crown...
http://www.watches88.com/pd_orient_a..._cfe04001w.cfm
It is most likely an Orient 46P movement like the one in this one: http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29217
That would make the 24h hand locked to the other hands and non-adjustable, so the second crown would operate the inner rotating 24 rehaut to show a second timezone.
Cheers,
Gert
I happen to disagree with your first sentence. It doesn't happen much on forums like TZ-UK who self-moderate to even a minimal extent. One reason I post here so often is because I can learn so much from threads like this one. Productive threads are reinforced, but sometimes that is not enough IMO.
Actuallly I was being generous when I suggested using the search function (I rarely use it myself). I listed Rolex bracelets as an example of an overdone topic, not even realising when I wrote it that yet another thread about Rolex bracelets had started on this very forum. Forum manners aren't rocket science, and it's particularly egregious when a productive thread like this one is hammer-headed into a discussion that has already occurred countless other times.
At the very least, the writer (Ventura in this instance) could have started another thread or PM'd Eddie off line. If it wasn't for the efforts of other TZ-UKers, this could have degenerated into another O7 bash/DN defense. Even Eddie tried to get us back on track before Hari dragged us back in. As it turns out, Hari would have been happier if he had followed this advice and/or Eddie's lead.
And now I've hi-jacked this thread in an attempt to encourage good forum manners. My apologies to Geoff, Michael, Eddie and the rest of you
Yep, Oris Worldtimer, very much like UN.
Cheers,
Otari
Good catch! I've been tempted by those a couple of times. 'Home time' is shown on a subdial and the main hour hand steps using the pushers, I believe.Yep, Oris Worldtimer, very much like UN.
Cheers,
Otari
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
Found an interesting article on the whole subject of multiple time zone watches Here.
No GMT version of the ETA 2824/289X from Soprod, Sellita, Lajoux Perret , Dudois Dupraz
in japanese movement Seiko (have many movement with GMT Function, 6RXX, 4RXX, spring drive.... ) or Orient
But, we could found some watch with ETA 2836 with GMT modul like http://www.bernhardtinstruments.com or many fake of GMT Master
Dynamo
Why not get a watch that has two seperate movements in the one case?
Martin
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Now that is what I call busy dial :shock: :shock:
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Not to be the grinch, but I seem to see copies and/or homages for sale around here, so who is calling the kettle black.
Could you be a little more specific?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Must admit i found this a strange post :?Could you be a little more specific?
Eddie
Weird
Martin
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
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