I've been lurking here myself, and would like to purchase
a Speedbird lll.
David
Lots of demand for the 'bird, thats a good sign. And a good thing it's not limited too, i'd hate to miss out on what might be the most perfectly sized pilot's watch for me.
The wait continues. (ah, it'll give me time to save up some money, I'm guessing somewhere between 150 and 200?)
We all know it's not a limited edition, but the "Me Too!" madness was started by this comment of Eddie's...
Originally Posted by swanbourne
In my case, I am leaving the UK at the end of the year and it will be much easier for me to buy this watch if I am here than if I am back in Canada.... I earn pounds now, so it is easier to spend them and there won't be any shipping/customs problems.We all know it's not a limited edition, but the "Me Too!" madness was started by this comment of Eddie's...
Also, I've been seriously shopping for a pilot for a few weeks and I want this one (and a GO Navigator, but I can't afford that one...). The Stowa and Sinn are nice, but this is the one that I was waiting for.
.
$10 a wick????
.
All the best...
.
Jim...
______
Jim.
I definitely want a SB3 when they appear, and even more so if there's going to be a bracelet!
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
.
"And put your spacesuit on"...
.
David Bowie...Life on Mars...
.
All the best...
.
Jim...
______
Jim.
I'm sure you meant to say Space Oddity :).
"And put your spacesuit on"...
.
David Bowie...Life on Mars...
.
All the best...
.
Jim...
Hate to do it, but it is actually, "and put your helmet on."I'm sure you meant to say Space Oddity :).
"And put your spacesuit on"...
.
David Bowie...Life on Mars...
.
All the best...
.
Jim...
(sorry, I couldn't resist)
Jay
I hate to join a scramble, but...
SB3 please.
I would like the 38th watch, in whatever order...
limited or not... :D
I'd like to get back to the original topic which was a discussion of whether Chinese movements would be acceptable in a Timefactors watch. I have to admit my original reaction was "Oh crap!" Fair or not I have a few negative pre-comceptions about Chinese products in general. Things like unfair trade practices, all kinds of human rights issues with the government, questionable quality for many products and the fact that China is where everyone goes when they need something manufactured on the cheap. I won't pretend to be able to back up any of these assertions with actual facts. They are admittedly pre-conceptions in my mind (probably many other minds as well) that come to the fore when I see the words "Made in China" stamped on something. The reality though is you can't get away from Chinese manufactured goods in many product areas.
In Eddie's case here I have to stop and think about the reasons for going with a Chinese movement. It's not because Eddie is trying to trim costs (although that will probably be a side effect). It's because he just can't get any reasonable alternatives. The situation with ETA does not promise to get any better either so at some point something has to give. If Seagull and other Chinese companies can provide an accessible, quality product where no one else can then I would buy it. That's what competition is all about. Being honest about having Chinese content is obviously very important but at the same time expect that there will be a number of people who will not buy because of that.
Bottom line, having a Chinese movement in a "luxury" good like a watch is not my first choice. I would still buy a Timefactors watch with one though because I have faith in Eddie's reputation for quality. Good luck with a difficult decision Eddie.
Rick
I keep reading that Sellita is stepping in where ETA once stood. So far companies like Invicta, Oris, I also hear Breitling, Ocean7, and others have already started using Sellita's replacement for the 2824. (Sellita SW200) Sellita has a few of their own movements already and are also planning a GMT and chronograph. I do not know what the replacement for the Unitas movts would be or if they plan for one of those. They do decorations as well. Sellita for years did the alterations or whatever you call it on the ETA movts for watch companies, and they have been around for decades. They are not a new company. I keep reading about them and I posted an article stub from the latest IW magazine for all to see. I of course wonder if Sellita could be a suitable replacement since many have already started using them. I have no idea what their movts cost or how hard they are to get. I just wonder with Sellita around why.... :?: :? We have talked about them before. ;-)
I myself have only heard about them recently but what I have learned makes me happy that they are around. :)
Perhaps we can do a bit of a test runs with the "Chinese inside" watches...under a different branding and in a limited number of runs...
Eddie could take reservations and those that sign up will know exactly what they are getting themselves into...
With most goods being made in china these days, i'm pretty certain that there are good quality movements out there as well as every really bad one...
I'm keeping my fingers crossed...
It will be limited ... to the availability of the movements.
Oh ... and I do hope Mr Platts goes for the white gold hands.
john
Costume jewellery. Ouch!!!
Here is my considered opinion to the use of Chinese movements:
I have been a watch nut for about 15 years. In that time I have pretty much exclusively purchased watches with Swiss movements (mainly ETA). My first reaction was Chinese movements...no way! But I have been considering this carefully and I am sure I would be happy with one. Mr Platts is not doing this to 'make a cheap buck' or cut costs, which makes me feel happy with the decision. If he says the quality is comparable, then I do trust him. So, if it is a choice of indefinite delays or use the Chinese movement, then I say go for it.
The only worry I would have is that I would want a hacking movement and the ability to manual wind. I purchased a Seiko 5 recently because I love the look of it, but I have found it doesn't get the wrist time it should because it lacks manual wind and hacking seconds. Accuracy of the movement is also important to me. For example, +/-30s seconds a day is outside that which I am happy with.
It may however affect general sales and the price that they are sold at since I am sure there would be a lot of people out there with the "Chinese movement...no way!" opinion that I started with.
Chris.
The only watch likely to have a Chinese movement in the foreseeable future is the new PRS-5, using the Seagull ST19 but seeking assurances that the problems identified by JTBold and documented earlier in this thread have been eliminated.
EddieHave probably sold something more than 100 -200 seagull chronographs over the last several tears and there is really only one issue with the movements and that is the chronograph reset lever which seems to have a manufacturing burr on it that can case the chrono to reset to different points in the dial. It was maddening to figure out as if you just reset the hands to point north, and the burr was "worn down" by subsequent use the hands would reset "correctly" which because the watch was adjusted was now somewhere else on the dial.
After having that many watches go through my hands and seeing how many (actually few) came back I would have no problem with buying a watch using the movement, since I figure knowing the achilles heal would allow for it to be checked prior to putting them into a watch.
I also found it interesting that I was getting orders for movements from repair shops, and when I asked why the answer was that they needed parts to fix old venus chronographs that come in for repair and that most of the parts were a drop in fit.
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I know from experience that Chinese specification sheets for raw materials I have trialled have been - well - highly optimistic. They were cheap, though, so if you could live with the lower purity they were fine - problem is, they tried to pass off low purity as high purity powder, which annoyed me [and wasted my time]
If the quality of the movement is good enough, then I'd be happy to buy one.
Changing topic entirely, I'd like to restate my interest in an SB3, as mentioned in other threads :) #22 ideally, but I'll have whatever comes up.
Eddie, will the new PRS-5 be released under the Precista brand?
Probably.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I apologise for going off "into the weeds". I got caught up in the whole Swiss vs Chinese mvt issue without remembering that this was specifically for the chronograph, and Sellita still doesn't offer their own (although one is planned), so for this they obviously wouldn't be a choice anyway.
I think I´ve read somewhere (guess it was a rep forum) that there were some quality issues with sellita sw200.
I´ve had several watches with the seagull movement. It´s very reliable for what I have experienced so far.
New ones are around for about USD 60,- (available through the bay) so no need for a service :twisted:
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
could someone give some info/pics on the sb3 so i know what it ...thanks.... :shock:
Look in the sticky at the top of this forum.
thank you i didnt look very hard did i?...............
my apologies Ditchdigger, I thought you were asking for a picture of seagull movement :)
I would like to see one of those.
I live off the ocean and see Seagull movements all the time and they are not pretty.
(Full credits go to BrandonS, EOT)
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
thanks for the pics, very interesting. Would that decoration be known as "Beijing Stripes" then?
Côtes de Bèijing :twisted:
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Food for thought?
Asian resurgence "is bad news for European brands"
Marketing Week
Thursday August 9th 2007
Western companies are "living with a false sense of security" and underestimating the threat from Asian rivals, according to a leading brand consultant.
Corporate Edge chairman Chris Wood says the success of companies such as Toyota and Samsung should act as a warning to those who believe that brands from the Far East offer nothing more than a "cheaper alternative". Wood adds: "This is the calm before the storm. We are assuming that things will go on as they have been, with the East providing the cheap stuff and the West providing the high margins, but that's changing. Companies in Asia are not stupid. They realise they need to build their brands. This is very real and it's bad news for European brands."
Wood's comments follow last week's news that Nanjing Automobile Corporation and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation, the Chinese firms that battled to buy MG Rover's assets two years ago, are teaming up for an assault on the global car market.
Korean car manufacturer Hyundai and its sister marque Kia have also announced ambitious plans to become serious global players. Kia poached Toyota GB's commercial director Paul Philpott to become its UK managing director at the start of this year, as exclusively revealed by marketingweek.co.uk.
Wood also points to Chinese computer company Lenovo, which has a sponsorship deal believed to be worth between £10m and £15m with the Williams Formula One team.
I've received an uncased ST19 movement today, I'll take a few pics and post over the weekend.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Eddie is doing exactly as I would expect from a person of his integraty, trying a chinese movement to see the build quality. Personally if he says it fits his standards I would trust that judgement. In the present commercial world he has to source movements where they are available.
Thats it! EDDIE PUT ME DOWN FOR A SB3 TOO PLEASE!!! 8)
OK in the meantime i would be happy with a seagull powered PRS-5. I have a custom dialed Alpha with the Seagull movement and it works great. It was regulated for me and keep good time.
_Amer
Peking Stripes? 8)
Just ask for number 88, I'll know what you mean. Chips or rice extra. :wink:
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
^ :lol:
I'm with the special edition idea, or at least a very clear delineation between the usual Timefactors brands and the Seagull-powered editions.
I do very much appreciate, and applaud, the oppeness here. I agree that the fact that this is a search to overcome a supply issue and not one to insidiously cut costs, and the fact that everything is clear and above board, makes the use of Chinese movements acceptable. As long as I know what I'm getting and am paying the right price, I personally have no problem with the ST19 or any other Chinese-sourced watch parts.
But others out there may view things differently. And Eddie's reputation may be on the line with some folks for emotional rather than rational reasons.
Best to be honest, as you have been (thank you), and to distinguish Chinese-powered from the rest I think.
So... i'll sign up for no. 8 or 88 now pls...
:lol:
I have no problem with the source of most any product I buy, as long as I am fully informed about it. I am a firm believer in the phrase, "You get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get." ..provided there's no deception involved.
In general, for everyday products I don't believe most people care where it comes from, provided it does the job it's supposed to. I have been known to buy some products for the novelty factor (like the fleece vest I bought, simply because it was "Made in Mongolia"), but was otherwise like any other that fitted my need.
As for watches, I didn't care where my Hamilton, Timex, Texas Instruments, or Casios were made...before I became a WIS, as long as they worked.
My real interest in watches as something more than just a daily accouterment , was sparked by the fashion/fad in the late 80's for Soviet watches in Italy. I was there when the host of Soviet refugees were selling off their "high value" odds and ends, while awaiting processing to the USA.
"Ruski Rolexes" they were called, and I bought a bunch. They were inexpensive, archaic, chic, sometimes ugly, and above all...a real novelty. I gave them out like candy to my friends back home in the states. But the really cool ones, I kept for myself.
Now you can buy recent production variants on eBay for a pittance, though my original CCCP versions, are becoming collectables. Once they break though, you are still out of luck. You now own a parts junker.
So what does this all have to do with Chinese watch movements?
Until post sale SERVICE is a reality, I will consider any such watch disposable, and it had better be priced accordingly.
I have had lots of troubles with swiss movements and watches. Maybe it's just me, and you can call it bad luck. My SAR (Marathon) had its 2824 mvt break down on me completely within 6 months--then when the movement was REPLACED (under warranty), the mainspring or whatever that spring is called broke down 2 years later (and I only use this watch about once a month or so). My Submariner misfired after a year in operation--again fixed under warranty. My Panerai's power reserve went under 20 hours for some unkown reason--fixed under warranty. I have Vollmer that houses a basic 2824 and when wound, the rotor began turning with the winding movement of the crown after one year of ownership. No problems with my MM20, Oris, Speedmaster, Doxa or a 60 year old benrus my mom found that belonged to grandpa--that movement is built like a tank btw. I think if you go with Chinese movts you'll have to be ready for any problem to be blamed for it being Chinese--that would be my guess. Not that I'm qualified for giving you business advice, but I would use a new name for Chinese movements from Timefactors until we find out they outperform the Chinese ETAs that are being sold now.
I have vintage watches that did run for 30 years without any problem whatsoever.
I had a new Omega that was dead on arrival...
I guess, you'll just have to be lucky. I don't believe swiss watches are bad or better than Chinese. You'll just need luck...
I have frequently had this 'problem' with 2824s. It's annoying more than anything else and diminishes or disappears after a service. Still, it shouldn't happen in a relatively new watch :(
It's my hypothesis that, as Swiss movements get more and more difficult to obtain for the little guys, we are reaching the bottom of the movement barrel and that we will see more problems with the workhorse Swiss movements as factory 'seconds' and 'refurbs' are increasingly supplied to companies like Time Factors, RLT, Ocean 7 etc.
My advice would be to get while the getting's good.
This problem is caused by a lack of lubrication on the reversing wheels of the automatic winding. It's more prevalent in movements held in storage for a long time rather than them being sub-standard movements. Not usually a problem when the manufacturer is buying directly from ETA but more likely to occur when a manufacturer runs short of movements and has to buy what he can find.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Do you know what counts as a long time, give or take a year or two?
Best wishes,
Bob
It's all relative Bob, if you expect to service a mechanical movement every four years and it's been in storage for three years, then you might get a year before it needs a service. I've had a couple direct from the manufacturer where the rotor turned on winding. This is where "new old stock" may not be the bargain you thought it was.
The problem is, who knows how long they have been stored?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I've 14 manual wind and 3 automatic NOS movments. I've just moved them from the "ready to go" drawer to the "needs servicing" drawer. One hopes that they don't need repairs. ;)
Best wishes,
Bob
about the Lady Dreadnought! And be happy to put my name down for one...STILL looking for a decent ladies watch for my girl .... maybe a Lady Italien too!
Btw Eddie just got number 95 Italian LE and its the first of your watches i've owned...and i'm hugely impressed.. RGds, James.
EDDIE
Number 9 for me please as for my feeling's I know chinese movements may be more readily avaiable and cheaper. But can we not steer towards European one's as they are known to us. And well the chinese are "Made in China".
That is my 2 pence worth.
Simon
And I'll have no. 9 too if u decide to use a chinese movement... :)
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