Grand Seiko diver/600m spring drive- am I missing something?

[flugzeit]

GS diver has by far the best finish. The rest comes down to personal taste. I have faced the same choice, handled the Spring Drive models and chose the MM300 in the end. I found the SBGA31 looks to similar to other dress divers, the MM600 a tad too big and tool like with the screws and size and just fell for the uniqueness of the MM300 which I still love today. Just go with what makes you feel best.

I agree with these points, while I also think some of the points made about the MM600, above, are well made. The MM600 is a strange beast and ultimately I've kept the MM300 because it gets everything just right. Having said that, I have other spring drives in the stable so I have that base covered. I don't think there is anyway I'd choose the GS Diver or the MM600 for diving. I guess it might be fun to have a back for your diving computer... but considering the diving capabilities of these watches (in fact, almost all the WIS type divers out there) is simply a trick we play on ourselves.

-flugzeit

[Jim W]

When we're discussing Spring Drive MM600 and GS Divers we are talking serious Seiko hierarchy. I am not a diver (too old now) and I don't own an MM600, I do own both an MM300 and a GS SBGA031 Titanium Diver.

The MM300 with its Grand Seiko movement is a fabulous watch, I wear mine often. The GS SBGA031 is in another league altogether. The understated appearance, the feel of it on your wrist, the mesmerising second hand, the astonishing timekeeping, and the feeling of the overall quality just blows me away.

I always have to look at a Spring Dive Grand Seiko twice, the first time I am fixated by the sweep of the second hand, so I need to look again to see the time.

[rob-vicar]

You can feel the GS is better finished and detailed.

Except for the P!SS poor bracelet fit.

[yonsson]

Just to clarify, the 8L35 movement in the SBDX001 is NOT the exact same movement as the mechanical movements fitted in the Grand SEIKOs. They do not have the same finishing and they are not assembled, adjusted or regulated the same way. The accembly and quality control of the 9S movement is a lot more time consuming than the assembly and control of the 8L. That is why the 9S-movements perform better and are more expensive.

[flugzeit]

I always have to look at a Spring Dive Grand Seiko twice, the first time I am fixated by the sweep of the second hand, so I need to look again to see the time.

Yeah, I understand. I have a number Grand Seiko spring drives and, while I really like them, it totally annoys me that they don't tick. Silent! It doesn’t mesmerise me, it bothers me...

-flugzeit

[Jim W]

Except for the P!SS poor bracelet fit.

If you had ever seen one in the flesh you would see the chamfer on the case.
Do you really believe Seiko would let a Grand Seiko out of the door with a bad fitting bracelet? or anything else for that matter?

You either like or dislike Grand Seiko. But please don't criticise the quality.

[flugzeit]

You either like or dislike Grand Seiko. But please don't criticise the quality.

Yep... you got that right!!

-flugzeit

[rob-vicar]

If you had ever seen one in the flesh you would see the chamfer on the case.
Do you really believe Seiko would let a Grand Seiko out of the door with a bad fitting bracelet? or anything else for that matter?

You either like or dislike Grand Seiko. But please don't criticise the quality.

I have not seen one in the flesh and do not need to as I was commenting on the P!ss poor fit as can be seen in the photo.

Do you really believe Seiko would let a Grand Seiko out of the door with a bad fitting bracelet? or anything else for that matter?
.

Yes, yes I would as all manufacturers have QC issues occasionally

You either like or dislike Grand Seiko. But please don't criticise the quality.

Why not?
I'm not going to say something is good quality or finish, when it isn't, as seen in the picture.
I have not passed comment that all GS are rubbish, even if they were there is no possible way of me knowing that. I just pointed out the bad bracelet fit as seen in that photo.

[Jim W]

There is some intricate machining on the case of the SBGA031 diver. The 'bad fit' you see in the picture will certainly be a shadow. I can't find a clearer picture readily at hand, - but this may shed some light on it:



Come back Cap'n Hi de Hi, all is forgiven!

[rob-vicar]

There is some intricate machining on the case of the SBGA031 diver. The 'bad fit' you see in the picture will certainly be a shadow. I can't find a clearer picture readily at hand, - but this may shed some light on it:



Come back Cap'n Hi de Hi, all is forgiven!

To me it still looks like a rubbish fit, the end link curves upwards at a smaller diameter than the case, it may be by design and it locates well without rattle or wear against the polished case, but it doesn't flow with the case, therefore a P!SS poor effort IMO

[flugzeit]

To me it still looks like a rubbish fit, the end link curves upwards at a smaller diameter than the case, it may be by design and it locates well without rattle or wear against the polished case, but it doesn't flow with the case, therefore a P!SS poor effort IMO

You're going out on a limb here, or maybe I'm missing something (a thread somewhere else where we've had this discussion before). There are plenty of people on this forum with substantial hands on experience (i.e. ownership) of many GS models and many of them, if they decided to take the bait (more fool me), would just say: "No. You're wrong! And to base you rather strong claims on a single photo... well...."

-flugzeit

[MartynJC (UK)]

Wow - this thread's been running for nearly four years now and still the bickering continues - it seems the spirit of the forum is lost, but hopefully not forgotten?

martyn

[Captainhowdy]

To me it still looks like a rubbish fit, the end link curves upwards at a smaller diameter than the case, it may be by design and it locates well without rattle or wear against the polished case, but it doesn't flow with the case, therefore a P!SS poor effort IMO

I couldn't agree more, just look how bent the sapphire is on this Seiko, or is it just a trick of the light.

I'm probably Seikos harshest critic when it comes to bracelets, but even I would concede that the fit and finish on a GS would be spot on.

[Jim W]

Hi Cap'

[Captainhowdy]

Hi Cap'

I'd be mighty tempted to put that GS diver on a top quality rubber strap, have you tried it?

[Jim W]

I'd be mighty tempted to put that GS diver on a top quality rubber strap, have you tried it?

That's how I wear most of my divers, including my MM300. But I just love the Titanium bracelet on the GS so I've never taken if off.

[rob-vicar]

You're going out on a limb here, or maybe I'm missing something (a thread somewhere else where we've had this discussion before). There are plenty of people on this forum with substantial hands on experience (i.e. ownership) of many GS models and many of them, if they decided to take the bait (more fool me), would just say: "No. You're wrong! And to base you rather strong claims on a single photo... well...."

-flugzeit

How am I wrong?
All I have said is that from the picture the fitting, intended by design or not, looks to be poor. Which it does look that way. I have conceded that I have not tried on the model and stating that other people have experience of many GS models does not change the fact that, in that picture it looks like a poor fit.

Explain to me, from that picture, where the diameter of the end link looks different to the case diameter, therefore, from that picture, it looks ill fitting as it looks like it doesn't meet the case in a uniform manner, rises above the lug height, suggesting a difference on the curve, even the gap between the end link and lug is uneven

[rob-vicar]

I couldn't agree more, just look how bent the sapphire is on this Seiko, or is it just a trick of the light.

I'm probably Seikos harshest critic when it comes to bracelets, but even I would concede that the fit and finish on a GS would be spot on.

Fit and finish would be, or should be?
As to your pic, ha ha. But looking at the bezel and the way the crown sits in the case the gap tolerances look as they are spot on all the way round.
That's my point, the other pic looks like a bad bracelet to case fit

[Jim W]

Bonkers or what..

[Captainhowdy]

Fit and finish would be, or should be?
As to your pic, ha ha. But looking at the bezel and the way the crown sits in the case the gap tolerances look as they are spot on all the way round.
That's my point, the other pic looks like a bad bracelet to case fit

I rather think you have answered you're own question, it's all in the photos, now put the shovel away and step away from the hole

[jrpippen]

The seikos do really struggle with tinny bracelets. At the Grand Seiko stand at QP, probably 3 years ago now, (maybe 2) I spent a while explaining to the chap that the bracelets made a rattling noise and that the watch I was wearing (a Yacht Master) didn't. It made no sounds when you moved the bracket round and that a high pitched tinny rattle really detracted as it made the wearer feel like it must be of low quality.

He conceded the point, but simply said that Seiko wouldn't of considered the aural factor.

Seiko brackets aren't the best IMHumbleO.

Didn't notice a rubbish fit on the MM300 or MM600 I've owned, only a stupid Alan key fitting on the 600 which is just daft!!!

[rob-vicar]

^^^
Careful, all I did was mention that the fit looked terrible in a photo and the fanbois raised their heads like meerkats, you've actually criticised GS

[flugzeit]

Explain to me, from that picture, where the diameter of the end link looks different to the case diameter, therefore, from that picture, it looks ill fitting as it looks like it doesn't meet the case in a uniform manner, rises above the lug height, suggesting a difference on the curve, even the gap between the end link and lug is uneven

I think its pretty clear what's going on here... after having been called a meerkat!

Anyway, it would be misguided to enter into a discussion on the basis that you outline above because it doesn't make any sense to draw the conclusions you have, or try to contest them, on the basis of a photo.

-flugzeit

[Jim W]

Here we go again.... If you're getting nowhere criticizing the watch, - have a go at the bracelet.
A shadowy picture doesn't look quite right, Proof positive it must be crap.
Someone else tries the rattle test.. Well that settles it, Seiko put shoddy bracelets on their top of range Grand Seiko's.

Err I don't think so, I've got a new SBGA031 Grand Seiko (and before you lot start mouthing fanboy, I also own a beautiful Y/G Rolex Day-Date with President bracelet which I absolutely love). The GS bracelet is gorgeous, exactly as you would expect from Grand Seiko, - and why wouldn't it be?

I expect the cackle of the Loony Tunes element to follow...

[jrpippen]

I did t say it was crap, it's not it's a superb watch, but seikos bracelets don't seem to be if the same uber quality as the actual watches. Just an observation.

Why so defensive?

[Jim W]

Why so defensive?

Because I'm bored with keep hearing it. That's why.

[rob-vicar]

If said more than once, by more than one person, may be it's true?
Watch = good
Bracelet = could do better

[Captainhowdy]

If said more than once, by more than one person, may be it's true?
Watch = good
Bracelet = could do better

Now you are starting to make more sense, as I don't think that even the GS range matches the engineering quality of say IWC, Breitling Pilot or a SubC bracelet.

[Jim W]

You guys carry on.. I'm done.

[rob-vicar]

Now you are starting to make more sense, as I don't think that even the GS range matches the engineering quality of say IWC, Breitling Pilot or a SubC bracelet.

Glad I finally got my point across, granted I did make a meal of it.
I wasn't slagging off the brand or even the particular model, I just noted that the bracelet seemed poor especially in that price bracket. I haven't risen to the "have you tried/owned one?" rubbish, and patiently waiting and now read some objective opinions rather than fanboy nonsense

Thanks for that.

Oh, and Jim, relax not everybody is going to like the things you like, and even if they do not necessarily to the same extent.
I'm happy you love your GS and its bracelet, and that's all that matters in the end

[RAJEN]

I love the GS divers a lot but do agree the bracelet is not upto par. It is not a question of the fitting but just seem insubstantial and flimsy though I would imagine they are well engineered.
But, it doesnt prevent me from enjoying the GS divers which are IMO exceptional watches.

[Captainhowdy]

I love the GS divers a lot but do agree the bracelet is not upto par. It is not a question of the fitting but just seem insubstantial and flimsy though I would imagine they are well engineered.
But, it doesnt prevent me from enjoying the GS divers which are IMO exceptional watches.

Sanity returns to a Seiko thread.

[Jim W]

Sanity returns to a Seiko thread.

Really?

[Captainhowdy]

Really?

Jimbo, these threads are not for the likes of you, you can't or don't seem to be able to accept that there are other opinions of a GS and it's component parts out there. My honest view is the GS diver is a cracking watch, I would like one at some point, but I know even before the damned thing arrives that the while not a let down, the bracelet will not be a good as the one fitted to a new Aquatimer or new SDc.

[Jim W]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Captainhowdy]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

You did say you were done 3 posts ago

[Saint-Just]

I seem to remember the same criticism being thrown at Rolex of old. And it was true, too; yet no one could come up with an example of a failure, and that kind pf proved the point for Rolex as although in a luxury segment they were very much used as tools.

[RAJEN]

It is sad to see fan bois getting their knickers in a twist over nothing.
Everyone has acknowledged the quality of GS Divers but some cannot even tolerate constructive criticism.
These are not snide remarks that Seiko fanbois direct at Rolex but well meaning observations.
Sadly some heads are stuck so far up the nether regions that, they can't see that.

[Captainhowdy]

It is sad to see fan bois getting their knickers in a twist over nothing.
Everyone has acknowledged the quality of GS Divers but some cannot even tolerate constructive criticism.
These are not snide remarks that Seiko fanbois direct at Rolex but well meaning observations.
Sadly some heads are stuck so far up the nether regions that, they can't see that.

A deep breath and a moments pause before hitting the keyboard would be my advice for them, it's not as if ranting and tantrums are likely to result in a sceptic changing their mind.

[Daddelvirks]

The IWC bracelet is the "dogs bollocks" a very fine thing indeed, but I won't even guess what it's going to cost to buy.

Daddel.

[Captainhowdy]

The IWC bracelet is the "dogs bollocks" a very fine thing indeed, but I won't even guess what it's going to cost to buy.

Daddel.

A GS Diver costs £6K, so there should be enough margin to throw in a top of the range bracelet.

[Daddelvirks]

A GS Diver costs £6K, so there should be enough margin to throw in a top of the range bracelet.

5200,- GBP for the SD and a lot less for the quartz, but they can be bought a lot cheaper.

Daddel.

[Captainhowdy]

5200,- GBP for the SD and a lot less for the quartz, but they can be bought a lot cheaper.

Daddel.

Yes, but they are ask £6k for the ti GS diver, so every part of it should be right up there in terms of quality.

I'm very interested in the GS diver, in fact it may well be my next watch, but I think it would be straight on a good rubber strap, partly due to the size of the watch.

[PJ S]

The IWC bracelet is the "dogs bollocks" a very fine thing indeed, but I won't even guess what it's going to cost to buy.

£1200, iirc.

[PJ S]

Yes, but they are ask £6k for the ti GS diver, so every part of it should be right up there in terms of quality.

I'm very interested in the GS diver, in fact it may well be my next watch, but I think it would be straight on a good rubber strap, partly due to the size of the watch.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=271607

As for the price – titanium or stainless steel – it's way off kilter with the JDM retail price.
The SBGA029 retails for (at present exchange rates) £3100 + tax
The SBGA031 retails for £3600 + tax

In that context, the bracelet is engineered accordingly – but given the UK price, one would expect the bracelet to equal those against which it is similarly priced.

[Daddelvirks]

Yes, but they are ask £6k for the ti GS diver, so every part of it should be right up there in terms of quality.

I'm very interested in the GS diver, in fact it may well be my next watch, but I think it would be straight on a good rubber strap, partly due to the size of the watch.

I pop most of my divers on rubber, much more comfy when using a quality one, IMHO.
Plus it saves me the worry about scratching up a piece of metal with a significant pricetag :)

Daddel.

[yonsson]

I have owned several Grand SEIKOs with the 5-piece bracelet and also with the 3-piece bracelet. I've also owned a 116600 (new Seadweller). The Rolex bracelet is better proportioned and pretty much has 0 play, but don't forget, the SD divers have 5-link bracelets. A little wiggle can't be avoided and it never bothered me on any of my 5-piece bracelet GS models. The 3-piece bracelet on my SBGX117 was great, but the GS clasps are not even close to Rolex. They are as you know stamped and thick. The ratchet clasps are also lighter in weight than the links which isn't good for a balanced fit.

Does se the above mean the GS divers bracelets suck? Absolutely not, but they are not perfect.
SBGX117

[Captainhowdy]

I think that settles the issue, the GS diver is great, the bracelet while good, less so.

[Daddelvirks]

I think that settles the issue, the GS diver is great, the bracelet while good, less so.

It does Paul.

I'll have scotch on that.

Daddel.

[soundood]

I would just get a Rolex.




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