Reply With QuoteIf you choose the seller carefully, there are good deals to be made in places like Italy and Spain. So far I've only had good luck. I just ensured they had a real store behind the ad, and spoke to them over the phone.
Checking out prices recently for my recent JLC purchase there seemed to be a significant drop in prices for watch dealers in Italy - a good 5-10% less than a grey dealer in the UK. This seems to continue for lots of other brands too. It's all euros still, so what gives? Are all these dealer ads a bit dodgy?
If you choose the seller carefully, there are good deals to be made in places like Italy and Spain. So far I've only had good luck. I just ensured they had a real store behind the ad, and spoke to them over the phone.
The country is bu££ered, they badly need the income so prices are lower. Whether any are trustworthy is an entirely different matter.
Do some good research, and good deals are to be made.
I got my OS300 for a ridiculously low price with no problems at all.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Thanks for interesting replies. Nice to know that some of these are genuine and sage advice as always is to "buy the seller"
It just seemed strange that their was an almost uniformed reduction in prices being asked from Italy. They are also less forthcoming in further dealer info on the site than jewellers in France, Germany etc.
I must have spent too long on the site!
It's not only about the bad economy at the moment, it's in Italian's culture to haggle so you were always sure to get a deal on virtually any watch brand in Italy since always I think.
Be aware of description of the condition, some dealers tend to be very generous with their own descriptions...
Have you any evidence to suggest that Italian sellers are any less trustworthy than, say, British or American sellers?Originally Posted by shadowman
I'd support the economic climate suggestion.
I noticed the same price difference on Chrono24 with watches coming from Greece.
Just what is your problem sunbeam?
In relation to Chrono24, just about everyone here is wary as there are no safeguards offered by the web hosts.
As has been noted in a post just prior to yours, some sellers Italian or otherwise can be very optimistic with their condition assessments. That i believe is well documented as one member here found out to his cost.
But then again, some British or American sellers can be very optimistic with their condition assessments. Even happens (albeit very rarely) right here on TZ-UK.
And to counter your anecdotal evidence, I've bought from Italian sellers where the condition, price and delivery were all exemplary.
Just curious as to why you would cast aspersions of dishonesty on a complete nation, without any evidence. Or is it just rampant xenophobia?
My understanding (not admittedly from first hand experience) is that the biggest concern people have about buying from Italy is less an issue of trust in the dealers as trust in the postal system - hence many ebay sellers refuse to sell to Italy for example and people are often advised to ensure that when buying from Italy the package is sent by particular trusted courier companies, as the Italian post is somewhat "leaky" by reputation. Others will doubtless chip in with suggested couriers. The usual advice to ensure the seller is legit stands of course, for Italy as much as anywhere.
Blimey you're hard work, are you a newly signed up PC inspector? It is neither xenophobia nor any other negative aspertion against a specific race. It is however my inherent distrust of most general dealers. I'm delighted for you that your experience was positive, mine have been different and why i hold the views i do.
They happen to conflict with yours, i can however live with that knowledge quite happily.
I spent last weekend in Rome and bought two watches. One was a Tudor Pelagos where I just walked into Bedetti in Rome and made what I thought was a low ball offer. To my surprise they agreed.
Italy is suffering for a number of reasons not least of which is the fact that VAT is higher in Italy due to their austerity measures so retailers are being hit hard. There are some bargains to be had.
The Italians are a nation, not a race.
And just because you've had an issue with a particular dealer, it doesn't give you carte blanche to castigate a whole nation. There's another thread on here at the moment about a fake Rolex on eBay, and the seller is British - I suppose that by your reckoning, it means that all British watch sellers are ipso facto untrustworthy?!
You may be able to live with your knowledge, but can you sleep comfortably with your (verging on racist) views?
I don't think he meant to generalise. From the way I read it he was referring to dealers generally, not Italian dealers.
My wife is Italian and my son is therefore half Italian and I don't feel offended on there behalf, I think there is genuine confusion in meaning here, a common problem on forums because realistically, who is going to proof read a post!!!
Now also wearing a pedant hat FFS
I'm not going to argue with you old chap i've no neeed or desire to vindicate myself to you.
My prejudice is with dealers not a nation, race or bar of bleedin soap. If you want to pick a fight choose someone else and another place. I will be very happy to now ignore your posts from here on. FWIW i sleep very well and with a clear conscience as i'm not a racist.
face to face in a shop is always going to be best. you can judge the watch and docs etc for yourself. Some deals in France, Germany, Brussells etc I would have considered flying out to be sure of what I was buying - and get a nice day out.
FWIW, my post wasn't questioning Italian's honesty, nor do I think anyone else was, but I just considered it odd. if you see USA prices they are much cheaper than UK or Europe (on G.O's for sure)-but that's before you figure in import duty. Wondered if there was something about Italy to be aware of?
Have Italian friends in Italy and they don't trust the postal system, the mobile phone I sent that arrived empty proved them correct. The term "Naples Packup" was invented in...Naples...
... Italy is traditionally a very strong watch market - in part this has its roots in the need many locals had for alternative (cash) investments since not every euro is earned on the "white" (=taxed) side of business. Thus, even smaller cities and sometimes unsuspecting villages had or still have a local AD carrying top brands. Particularly when the economy is in bad shape, these dealers struggle to meet their sales quotas and are open for shifting inventory to the grey channels. Furthermore, many big brands started to reduce the number of AD licenses in recent years significantly, leading to a rather constant flow of liquidation sales by jewelers stripped of their AD status. At least in Germany, Italy has been one of, if not the largest supplier for grey dealers since years - also the big watch fair in Munich is dominated by Italian dealers.
From my experience, most of the established dealers are quite ok to deal with and if you buy brand new there should not be any doubt about the condition. But you should make sure that the watch is in stock before sending money, otherwise this can be a bit of a lengthy (and unpleasant) process. Shipping is another issue, specialised providers are an absolute must - to Germany (and I assume, to the rest of continental Europe) this is not a big issue, as the regular insured couriers cover Italy. So far, I had no problems in my transactions - all arrived safely in less than 24 hours.
If the prices are "too good to be true", though, I would be careful (as in any other country). One potential risk in such cases is VAT fraud, i.e. sales to foreigners are disguised as transactions to a buyer outside of the EU and, thus, no VAT is charged.
Cheers,
Christian
On this subject I've seen a couple of watches on chrono24 by these guys in Italy -
Prestigio Del Tempo
Piazza Vittorio Veneto 16/b
10123 TORINO
Italy
They are a trusted seller on chrono and everything seems to be new, so for the cost of a 60 quid flight from stansted I was planning on taking a day trip out there to get myself something nice. Anyone any experience with this dealer specifically?
No such thing as a trusted seller on chrono24. Always research the firms and get positive reviews from here and ofc go visit the place if you can.
I bought an Omega Aqua Terra from Prestigio Del Tempo a couple of years ago (the larger size white face with blued hands, which I had been looking for for quite a while). They were a little slow to respond to emails (I think that they may only have one English speaker) and would not budge on price, although they knocked €10 off the cost of an insured courier (€70 rather than €80), but otherwise were great to deal with and answered all the questions that I asked about the watch.
I made the payment by IBAN transfer and a couple of days later the watch appeared at my front door - every bit as straightforward as buying from a UK seller. The watch was exactly as described.
(As others have said, "trusted seller" on Chrono24 means absolutely nothing other than that the seller has paid extra money to Chrono24 for this logo).
Interesting, there is a Japanese seller that is Pro/Trusted, what is the best way to obtain references to ensure the integrity of the seller?
That's great, thank you!
They look pretty legitimate, but it's great to hear from someone that's actually dealt with them!
I've noticed the same, assumed it was economy related.
Would probably go in person though, good excuse to take herself away for a weekend.
Might want to try Florence or Rome rather than Turin for that though
It would be really useful to have a sticky on here where people can post up reputable dealers so that others can buy with confidence.
Could always post in H&V?
That's a really good idea, if I end up buying from the Turin dealers I would be happy to post up my experience.
Very good idea! I suggested creating a thread (here in WT) some time back but predictably it didn't work out. H&V is a much better idea: That's what it's for! :-)
I've been considering visiting virtuoso in Turin , really good prices on chrono but can't seem to find any feed back,and cheap flights ,got to be worth a visit
I only buy and sell vintage watches, but have bought well over ten from Italian sellers (both private and dealers) and have never had a problem.
Cheers,
Tony C.
If you fancy naming them here it would be very helpful. :-)
If you do have to send something to Italy or have to receive something I can say that UPS and FedEx in Italy are more reliable than the local post/package services. Definitely worth paying extra for.
I've had a couple of good experiences over the last two weeks. A Cellini from Stevanella Orologi in Verona and a Sub from WatchesGMT in Barcelona. Both exactly as described and delivered within 24 hours. There are very good deals to be had but, as always, buy the seller. From a personal point of view I would only buy from dealers who accept credit cards or Paypal for the extra protection.
I very recently had my first experience with an Italian dealer, buying a s/h but immaculate Panerai Submersible from Il Segnatempo in Pinerolo. Everything was excellent, though they only offered payment by bank wire transfer and I agree that credit card or Paypal would be more desirable for the additional protection they offer the buyer.
I agree with this. I would be willing to buy from an Italian dealer but I would only do it if I flew there for the day/weekend so that I could inspect the watch before I pay for it on a credit card and carry it back with me.
When flying out for a F2F, is the box/packaging generally sent back to avoid customs suspicions?
Why? It is within the European Union, so there are no customs suspicions. Buying a watch from Switzerland however...
Believe it or not, Italy is in the EU ;)
No customs or VAT charges to pay.
What is the deal there?
We had a big trip to the JLC manufacture last year, on the way back, entering Germany one of our number's car was searched for 'imported watches'. All they found was his JLC goody bag with a catalogue and some honey and were most disappointed
The deal is 5% VAT, that's what makes nipping across the border from France, Germany or Italy potentially interesting. A friend was in Zurich on business and went to see about buying a new JLC, the chap in the shop told him he would have to take his name and address and inform the French tax authorites if he bought one.
Seems like I had a brain fade moment there. Thanks to those that reminded me about EU member countries ;)
My experiences of Italy, rather their postal system...
I sell stuff on eBay. About 200 items a week go to EU countries. Of that 200, about 15-20% goes to Italy.
But yet Italy accounts for 40-50% of items "lost in the post"
There is corruption somewhere along the line, and for that reason alone I'd be wary of buying anything expensive from Italy.
Italians seem astonished when I inform them about my experiences with sending stuff to Italy. I'm not sure if its ignorance, or 'head in the sand'
Brazil is the only country worse than Italy with regard to things going missing, in my experience.
I don't suppose anyone here has had any dealings with Schöne Sammleruhren in Munich?
For the first time, I've been tempted to buy from an Italian seller on chrono24.
Anyone have any recommendations or experience with "stroppiana SRL" aka eora.it?
They seem to be a bricks and mortar establishment near Turin that shows on google street maps and has a website that accepts credit cards. Would you go ahead with that or still consider risky for a 4000EUR spend?
I'm specifically looking at a Breitling...which comes in a good £1000 cheaper than if I purchased in the UK. Seems a massive saving, but worried about warranty etc.
Hi,
Did you have to deal with this seller? What is your opinion on him?
I think the Italians also spend much more money on their appearance. When in Italy I always get the feeling that almost everyone has a Rolex.
With more people wearing rolexes for the sellers on chrono24 it is also easier to acquire these watches..
You just said it wasn't about race, then played the race card.
The Italian postal system is well known to be a corrupt POS, and leaks like a sieve. I'm really comfortable never buying from Italy for that reason.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I have bought watches from Italy via eBay. All arrived successfully, they have made a good job of the packaging, with the whole parcel covered in tape. I had one watch that was inside 3 boxes with the outer box covered in miles of tape, and that was from Palermo.
I recently bought a 2000 Sub date from an Italian dealer via chrono 24. Experience was fine. One niggle - the watch was described as 'mint' yet the small clasp that locks down over the strap was flapping quite loosely. I raised it with them and they offered to take the watch back - although they did try the 'you've bought a 15 year old watch line', which just pi$$ed me off (mint is mint).
My local jeweller did the job in seconds for a 10 quid donation to the charity box.
Slightly annoying but would not put me off doing it again.
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