First pen knife/ multi tool for 11 year old

[redsnapper]

My grandad bought me my first penknife when I was 9 or 10. They were sold over the counter same as matches and lighters and biros in most newsagents at the time. I learned to respect knives and still have a scar on my thumb joint as an aid memoir. I was also in the boy scouts and remember regularly walking through our town with a sheathed bowie or hand axe strapped to my waist without raising any eyebrows. Times have changed though..not entirely for the best IMHO. In Ireland there is no such thing as legal carry now. (Although I do accept that there were valid reasons for a ban...probably related to nut jobs stabbing people)

[Neil.C]

When I was the OP's son's age I had a flick knife and various throwing knives we would practice with in the woods.

We would also shoot at each other with air pistols.

Mind you that was a long time ago when there weren't the regulations there are now.......kids haven't changed though.

I wouldn't let a son of mine out of the house with a knife. Even when my son went on camp with the army cadets they were expressly told not to bring any knives.

Some time back I had an altercation with the law and a couple of knives that were in my car were confiscated.

Going out anywhere with knives is more trouble than it's worth nowadays.

[GrahamB]

Going out anywhere with knives is more trouble than it's worth nowadays.

I don't agree, I am seldom out without a UK legal pocket knife, it's not hidden with the clip clearly visible. Never been stopped, never been questioned despite going in and out of places with security. I've openly handed over going into Centrica at Barrow in Furness without anyone batting an eye.

Graham

[Essexman]

Love these threads, OP asks "what knife?" But most replies are advice on everything but the question asked.
OP hope your son enjoys his new knife. Looking forward to photos of his whittling projects.

[PickleB]

Love these threads, OP asks "what knife?" But most replies are advice on everything but the question asked.
OP hope your son enjoys his new knife. Looking forward to photos of his whittling projects.

The OP got what he wanted back on page 1:

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Ive checked them all out and i think i agree that a swiss army knife would be best bet. Maybe farmer or probaby hiker which is cheaper but has the saw blade. I also ordered the whittling book suggested so thanks for that!

[markrlondon]

I don't think this is a big deal. I'm sure we all had Swiss Army knives when we were boys, or even girls, in some cases. Look what well-adjusted people we've grown up to be.

So long as the knife is UK carry legal, and you can see all the knives in that category on Heinnie Haynes, then it's perfectly fine. Kids need to learn how to safely use knives and tools, and their parents are best placed to teach them, as soon as they judge them old enough and sensible enough to learn.

Well said. There is no good reason for a normal 11yo to not own such a useful (and legal) tool.

[markrlondon]

Going out anywhere with knives is more trouble than it's worth nowadays.

Although the laws in this country are truly retarded on this (as well as many other) matters, if one is legally carrying a knife or any other useful tool, then it seems to me to be perfectly reasonable and appropriate to do so. It doesn't seem like "trouble" to me; it seems to me like living legally, ethically and properly, as any decent person does.

People claims that "times have changed" but that is no good reason to go further into hand-wringing, politically correct, self censorship of one's life than the law absolutely requires of us.

[johny]

Just to be clear, we live in a village surrounded by fields where he spends a lot of time. Plus we go camping a few times a year. It would be used for cutting/ sawing sticks and maybe making a bow and arrow or catapult, much the same as what i did at his age. As i said i bought him the whittling book to go with it.
I have to admit i was a bit unsure about buying it him at first but if i show him how to use it safely and supervise him for the first few days then i should be able to trust him with it.

hi. a pen type blade rather than a clip type blade is better for a beginner. keep thinking up little tasks for him to perform with his new pocket knife it will help him get used to it. quartering an apple and then cutting the pip sections out of each piece is a good exercise....and if your lucky you might get a share. lol if it is a twin bladed pocket knife then highly polish one blade and tell him that that one is for food use and that the other is for everything else. johny. ps lubricate the pivots with olive oil if using for food.

[Neil.C]

Well said. There is no good reason for a normal 11yo to not own such a useful (and legal) tool.

Legal, sure.

See how he gets on taking it to school and using it to sharpen his pencils.

Sign of the times unfortunately.

Back in my day kids were never stabbed in school that I ever heard of, they are now and even members of staff have had a chivving too.

Hence the understandable caution of children with knives.

[markrlondon]

Legal, sure.

See how he gets on taking it to school and using it to sharpen his pencils

Good grief, there is a time and place for everything. Legal does not mean that it is reasonable to take it everywhere!

I owned a penknife from the age of 11 but I didn't take it to school (way back in 1982) because it wasn't needed there. Back in 1982 I had never heard of anyone being stabbed at school but I still didn't take it to school because it just wasn't the right place for it. The same applies now, exactly the same as in 1982. Thus the reality of people being stabbed at school is something of a straw man in the context of whether or not to own a penknife -- it makes no difference.

In short, as I said, there is no good reason for a 11yo to not own a penknife. But (obviously, I would have thought!) part of owning such at tool is learning when and where to carry it and use it.

There really is no reason to give in to the hand-wringing, anti-knife hysteria.

[jmitch]

Legal, sure.

See how he gets on taking it to school and using it to sharpen his pencils.

Sign of the times unfortunately.

Back in my day kids were never stabbed in school that I ever heard of, they are now and even members of staff have had a chivving too.

Hence the understandable caution of children with knives.

Can you think of a less suitable knife to stab your fellow pupils with than a Swiss army knife?

Jeez, you would be lucky if you didn't cut your own finger off. I imagine the other kids would be pissing them selves laughing.

II do recall that live ammunition was the playground toy of choice in my childhood, everything from .22 to 12 bore but .410 was the most accessible.
favourite game was to set a 12 bore in a hole in a tree and see if you could set it off with a catapult (or air pistol if off school grounds). This was in the late 80's, not the 1920's, but in a rural area where these things were easy to come by.
Homemade hand grenades were also de'rigueur

[jmitch]

Good grief, there is a time and place for everything. Legal does not mean that it is reasonable to take it everywhere!

I owned a penknife from the age of 11 but I didn't take it to school (way back in 1982) because it wasn't needed there.

+1

I would never have taken my penknife to school as some little scrote would probably have pinched it. Anyway there were scisors and craft knives everywhere so there was no need for one.

[china]

To answer the original question, I think that a proper knife is more useful / easy to use when working with wood. My son (aged seven) just came from a boy scout daycamp, where they were all expected to have their knife with them. My son has a Marttiini (local knife making company) junior knife with 3" or so blade. Today it was used to make spears of some sort. ;) He is not afraid of the knife and feels it is just a regular tool alongside others he needs.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Going back a few weeks ago now my wife had a frantic phone call from my youngest sons school. He had (unknown to both of us) slipped a magazine of spent bullet cases including a 50 cal in to his school bag and proceeded to show his mates at school. They were doing WW2 in history and he thought it would be a good idea to take them in. It apparently caused a Full scale meltdown as the teacher who was taking the lesson thought they were live. It seemed that out of a whole school of educated adults not one of them in there knew that they were just empty used cases. He was given a detention and he was marked down for disruption due to it. I can't imagine the blind panick that would ensue if a knife was found in a child's bag even if it was a Swiss tool or not.

[Neil.C]

Good grief, there is a time and place for everything. Legal does not mean that it is reasonable to take it everywhere!

I owned a penknife from the age of 11 but I didn't take it to school (way back in 1982) because it wasn't needed there. Back in 1982 I had never heard of anyone being stabbed at school but I still didn't take it to school because it just wasn't the right place for it. The same applies now, exactly the same as in 1982. Thus the reality of people being stabbed at school is something of a straw man in the context of whether or not to own a penknife -- it makes no difference.

In short, as I said, there is no good reason for a 11yo to not own a penknife. But (obviously, I would have thought!) part of owning such at tool is learning when and where to carry it and use it.

There really is no reason to give in to the hand-wringing, anti-knife hysteria.

No Hand wringing, anti-knife hysteria from me. I used to love flick knives and throwing knives as a kid as I mentioned earlier.

I'm simply stating that with the way things are today letting an 11 year old out with a knife could be counter productive if they are turned over by the police, who don't seem to need any reason to frisk youngsters out and about as I have found from my own three sons.

Obviously people will do as they see fit with their kids but turning up at the police station is not high on my list of priorities, it can be very tiresome and I just thought I'd give some illumination on the downsides of buying knives for youngsters.

I've got first hand experience with the police over just that reason too if you recall....


http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?31843-Stopped-by-the-coppers-today&highlight=coppers

[markrlondon]

I'm simply stating that with the way things are today letting an 11 year old out with a knife could be counter productive if they are turned over by the police, who don't seem to need any reason to frisk youngsters out and about as I have found from my own three sons.

Yup, there is always a risk that the police might not obey the law themselves or will choose to enforce it idiotically or excessively. I simply do not think (despite your experience, although see below) that that is a good reason for an 11yo not to own a penknife (and, obviously, to carry and use it in appropriate circumstances).

I've got first hand experience with the police over just that reason too if you recall....

I recall. I note also that neither a machete nor a locking blade knife are a non-locking blade penknife with legal length blade!

( I do not agree with your knife being confiscated, either in your specific circumstances or in general principle, but your experience is not directly comparable to someone carrying a legal blade length penknife with a non-locking blade. As far as I know and understand, the police in your case were in fact correctly obeying the law regarding your locking blade knife. Had it, on the other hand, been a non-locking blade penknife then they would probably as I understand it have been exceeding their legal authority to confiscate it. )

[Huertecilla]

As far as I know and understand, the police in your case were in fact correctly obeying the law regarding your locking blade knife. Had it, on the other hand, been a non-locking blade penknife then they would probably as I understand it have been exceeding their legal authority to confiscate it.

The problem is that many laws have nothing to do with commons sense nor individual rights anymore. It is all about control and tax collecting.
Police is striving for ticket tagrets and as often as not doesn't stick to the law themselves because they assume they know the law whereas it usually is very much iffy.
Bottom line is that the defangng of the sheeple is seriously affecting non urban population. It affects my daily thinking. I have to be conscious of what I have in my pocket ALL day.
No, and I am NOT making a lockable compartment in my car just to satisfy the plod. That would mean I need to manage another set of keys as well ffs.

[Mystery Scott]

Going back a few weeks ago now my wife had a frantic phone call from my youngest sons school. He had (unknown to both of us) slipped a magazine of spent bullet cases including a 50 cal in to his school bag and proceeded to show his mates at school. They were doing WW2 in history and he thought it would be a good idea to take them in. It apparently caused a Full scale meltdown as the teacher who was taking the lesson thought they were live. It seemed that out of a whole school of educated adults not one of them in there knew that they were just empty used cases. He was given a detention and he was marked down for disruption due to it. I can't imagine the blind panick that would ensue if a knife was found in a child's bag even if it was a Swiss tool or not.

Bloody hell that's daft of those teachers. Did they carry through with the detention?

As an aside, most independent secondary schools with cadets have an armoury and a range and kids are expected to know how to shoot (and strip down a gun blindfolded) at 11. Teaching children to use things responsibly at the age where they become curious is simply the correct thing to do in my eyes. I had a penknife at a very young age and it made it mundane. Guns were a bit different, but the principal was the same.

For the OP's question I'd definitely go for a SAK with a a saw, two knife lengths and scissors. I wish I could find mine from back then, that saw was massively useful!

[southerner101]

Swiss Army knife is classic. He will be well chuffed with it!!!! Loved stuff like that as a kid. Ex military knife would be cool to

[Huertecilla]

Bloody hell that's daft of those teachers.

When he was about 7 my son 'won' a key fob with a 4 cm. small 'knife'. It was impounded at school and we were summoned to the principals office.
We were told he could not take an arm to school.
I exploded and in the end received an apology.
'but the parents demand etcetera'
parents meaning brainless sheeple.

As an aside, most independent secondary schools with cadets have an armoury and a range and kids are expected to know how to shoot (and strip down a gun blindfolded) at 11. Teaching children to use things responsibly at the age where they become curious is simply the correct thing to do in my eyes. I had a penknife at a very young age and it made it mundane. Guns were a bit different, but the principal was the same.

My son has learned to shoot bow and arrow from about 4 incl. from horseback.
Airguns from about 7 and he has had his own vintage Sheridan Blue Streak for 2 years.

Same thing motorized vehicles.
Although he is not allowed to drive our cars without supervision and will not do so, he can. This is a necessity when you live out in the campo. Just like dealing with sharp tools.

[bitfield]

He had (unknown to both of us) slipped a magazine of spent bullet cases including a 50 cal in to his school bag and proceeded to show his mates at school. They were doing WW2 in history and he thought it would be a good idea to take them in. It apparently caused a Full scale meltdown as the teacher who was taking the lesson thought they were live.

Well, so what if they were? Presumably there wasn't a Barrett on hand to fire them with, and so long as you don't start hammering nails in with them, even live rounds are fairly safe. No doubt some ammunition spontaneously explodes and kills the people handling it, but not the really reputable brands.

Full marks to your son, who appears to be a chip off the old (ammo) block.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Well, so what if they were? Presumably there wasn't a Barrett on hand to fire them with, and so long as you don't start hammering nails in with them, even live rounds are fairly safe. No doubt some ammunition spontaneously explodes and kills the people handling it, but not the really reputable brands.

Full marks to your son, who appears to be a chip off the old (ammo) block.

Nah, he left the Barrett at home!

They were bought from Bovington Tank museum in the gift shop on the way out....totally above board. So there was no risk to anyone. Tbh I kind of went with the flow on it and didn't want to cause a fuss perhaps if I was having one of those days at work I might of looked at it a bit differently.
Not sure if the detention has been carried out yet, were still actually waiting for the info to go on his portal.

[PickleB]

Nah, he left the Barrett at home!

They were bought from Bovington Tank museum in the gift shop on the way out....totally above board. So there was no risk to anyone. Tbh I kind of went with the flow on it and didn't want to cause a fuss perhaps if I was having one of those days at work I might of looked at it a bit differently.
Not sure if the detention has been carried out yet, were still actually waiting for the info to go on his portal.

Surely you simply showed the school the FFE Certificate from Bovington that came with them...

At the very least, your son is owed a get out of detention free card.

[Huertecilla]

Tbh I kind of went with the flow on it and didn't want to cause a fuss

To protect my son I will cause all the fuss needed and then some!!

[markrlondon]

At the very least, your son is owed a get out of detention free card.

Quite! He has done nothing wrong at all.

[PickleB]

Quite! He has done nothing wrong at all.

And he may be learning the wrong lesson at school. Granted, he now realises quite what a fuss we now get into about firearms, knives etc...and won't be repeating what he did. But it does seem to me that it was the teaching staff that caused any disruption and not the pupils. He should not be learning that responsible adults are daft (ie, they cannot be trusted to react appropriately), even if there is an excuse for their ignorance.

Going back a few weeks ago now my wife had a frantic phone call from my youngest sons school. He had (unknown to both of us) slipped a magazine of spent bullet cases including a 50 cal in to his school bag and proceeded to show his mates at school. They were doing WW2 in history and he thought it would be a good idea to take them in. It apparently caused a Full scale meltdown as the teacher who was taking the lesson thought they were live. It seemed that out of a whole school of educated adults not one of them in there knew that they were just empty used cases. He was given a detention and he was marked down for disruption due to it. I can't imagine the blind panick that would ensue if a knife was found in a child's bag even if it was a Swiss tool or not.

[markrlondon]

But it does seem to me that it was the teaching staff that caused any disruption and not the pupils.

Yes, this is how it sounds to me.

He should not be learning that responsible adults are daft (ie, they cannot be trusted to react appropriately), even if there is an excuse for their ignorance.

From what FFF said I don't see this as a matter of ignorance but of incompetence and idiocy, and there is never an excuse for that.

However, one might also observe that the lesson that supposedly "responsible" adults are often incapable of acting in a rational, competent or sensible manner is a useful one. Then again, a child should not have to pay the price for learning this lesson when he has done nothing inappropriate or wrong.

[Huertecilla]

And he may be learning the wrong lesson at school. Granted, he now realises quite what a fuss we now get into about firearms, knives etc...and won't be repeating what he did. But it does seem to me that it was the teaching staff that caused any disruption and not the pupils. He should not be learning that responsible adults are daft (ie, they cannot be trusted to react appropriately), even if there is an excuse for their ignorance.

You explain why I make the biggest stink imaginable in cases like this of which there are disgustingly many over a nauseatingly wide range of petty things.

You explain why I keep my kid from school at home when I deem that there are way more important things he can learn. I don't ask for permission; I simply inform them.

Some of the bad things are in a crooked way good: My son learned has understood from the age of about 7 that when answering questions or tests, he should give the answer the system expects, even when that is blatantly wrong. The system will always be right even when wrong.

Concerning respect for rules they do a VERY bad job, which in again a crooked way is good.

[paulpsz008]

My most used knife & the one I virtually always carry is a Leatherman Micra/Squirt keyring model

Could be a good option for him & you can usually get them laser etched with his name or a.n.other message FOC.

[Essexman]

Take care giving young one knives and swords.....................

http://www.wimp.com/fun/girl-with-sw...s-competition/

[watch-nut]

I'm struggling to think of any reason why an 11 year old would ever need to carry a knife. I can understand letting them have one at home as a grown up toy, but it shouldn't leave the house.

This was my first thought but I can't see where the op says his son will be actually carrying it. If it's for camping or using at home I don't see the problem.

The principal of these 2 post are right, under supervision in an environment that calls for its sensible use is fine.

Just carrying it around is a daft premise, however sensible the owner is does not compensate for how stupid others are, a hell of a lot of stabbings are where the injured parties own knife was used

[hogthrob]

My comment about carrying a knife wasn't aimed particularly at the OP; more at the couple of people who were talking about the knife being 'UK legal', which (discounting flick knives etc.) would only really apply if the knife were taken outside the home.

[bitfield]

My comment about carrying a knife wasn't aimed particularly at the OP; more at the couple of people who were talking about the knife being 'UK legal', which (discounting flick knives etc.) would only really apply if the knife were taken outside the home.

A pocketknife isn't much use unless you keep it in your pocket.

Nothing wrong with carrying a legal knife at home, in the garden, out and about, and indeed everywhere you go, with one important exception: a school isn't the place for a knife, for obvious reasons.

I'm not saying that every 11 year old boy (or girl) is mature and sensible enough to have a knife. But if his mum and dad think it's all right, and the law allows it, then there's really no problem, is there? I don't see that anyone else's opinion on the matter is relevant.

[robcuk]

Leatherman Leap, specially designed for kids, blade supplied separately for you to snap in if he's ready:

https://www.leatherman.com/leap-358.html

[PickleB]

Leatherman Leap, specially designed for kids, blade supplied separately for you to snap in if he's ready:

https://www.leatherman.com/leap-358.html

Despite the safety argument I don't think the OP wants to go anywhere near a lock-blade at the moment.

[Huertecilla]

Despite the safety argument I don't think the OP wants to go anywhere near a lock-blade at the moment.

and yet another example of common sense biting in the sand.

Being a responsible parent, there is no way I am handing my kid an unsafe blade.

[bitfield]

and yet another example of common sense biting in the sand.

Being a responsible parent, there is no way I am handing my kid an unsafe blade.

It's true. Slipjoint (ie non-locking) folding blades aren't really safe for actually cutting anything with. Ironically, they're perfectly good for stabbing people, if you're careful, but that's about the only thing I'd use one for.

A multitool which had scissors, locking screwdrivers, pliers, but no blade, would actually be better as an EDC tool, I think, and perfectly legal. When I want a real knife to use at home, I have plenty of fixed blades to choose from, none of which would go in my pocket without seriously disappointing my future queen.

[soapy]

I would get him this one

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Victorinox-D...victorinox+doe

being a multifunction Swiss army knife it is seen as far less menacing to the general public [and of course is totally legal]

its the same as the well regarded compact model except the blade is rounded and the corkscrew is replaced with a more useful Philips.at the moment its a lot cheaper than it has been.
if you ever go into London the main store will change the scales for free.
you can then add plus scales which adds a useful pen, the white scales or silvertech look excellent.
I had silvertech scales added to an old Grand prix model

http://jeroensvictorinox.blogspot.co...rand-prix.html

and white added to another old model

teach him how to use it and never take it to school or on a school trip [obviously]

[Shish]

All UK legal carry.
http://www.heinnie.com/knives-and-to...carry/yes/?p=2

If I had to give a gift for my 12 year old god son, I would buy him a small Opinel carbon, or a Fallkineven U2 or similar, but it depends on what you're looking for...

[soapy]

It has to be a very small opinel to be non locking.
I don't like them they are probaly the worst choice as the blades can be very loose.

[Alistair72]

SAK all the way.
Classic - small and the most carried (& therefore used knife) - I have 4!
My first SAK - butter knife shape but damn sharp blade, you can even get a saw.
Alox Cadet - like above but ally body and pointy blade.

My dad got me one when I was about 10. Yes I cut myself, but I learnt to use it on the way.
I don't always carry a knife, but learnt when it was appropriate. And you win friends opening beer and wine on a beach - but a corkscrew at his age might be a bit much ;)

[John Robbins]

sorry about the poor image quality but, here it is gift boxed, personalised and delivered in 3 days. Very happy with it. Quality is excellent. Thanks for all the advice.

[soapy]

good choice of tools, you might consider making a simple paracord lanyard for it.

[paulpsz008]

Good choice & thanks for bringing this to a conclusion.
Glad you got him one in the end.

[PickleB]

Good choice & thanks for bringing this to a conclusion.
Glad you got him one in the end.

The OP got what he wanted back on page 1:

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Ive checked them all out and i think i agree that a swiss army knife would be best bet. Maybe farmer or probaby hiker which is cheaper but has the saw blade. I also ordered the whittling book suggested so thanks for that!

[Alistair72]

Good choice.
The Philips screwdriver is probably more use than a cork screw at his age.
And the saw, I had forgotten how good they are...

[johny]

very nice. good choice.