Reply With Quoteyes. take your time and shop around. there are plenty on here that come up for sale or there are reputable grey dealers you can buy from.
I was in Town earlier today and happened to find my way to Watches of Switzerland. My wife has encouraged me to treat myself to a Rolex which I have lusted after for a while now. I tried a few on including a blue faced Millgauss and a Two Tone black GMT. I really like the Blue Two Tone sub and have wanted for a long time, however I also really covet the Black Ceramic sub. I'm very torn between the two. I know only I can choose what I want, however I would like opinions, this is my first "expensive" watch, I did have a look at second hand but the 5 year Warrenty plus being the first owner sold me on buying new. Being my first expensive watch I would hope that I never need to flip or sell it so it's not what I would call an investment piece. The one issue was the salesperson said that the two tone blue is pretty rare and there were only 2 left within the company for sale, however he may be able to source one whereas the Black stainless could be mine next Thursday as he had a cancellation, am I just being given some "sales patter".
yes. take your time and shop around. there are plenty on here that come up for sale or there are reputable grey dealers you can buy from.
Yes. Typical sales pattern as you've put it.
I don't like TT on anything so I'd go SS.
Take your time and don't forget to post pictures once bought!
I'm not sure what is going on with these waiting lists... both aforementioned watches were on display a couple days ago in Oxford Goldsmiths.... I haven't seen many daytonas around but subs in all shapes or forms are widely available in Oxford and Cheltenham...
Blue two tone costs a lot more and has much poorer residuals... but I love it.
The black is the "classic" Rolex look - very boring, very safe but hey it does look good.
Only you can tell!
By the way, buy from Iconic Watches (other Grey dealers are available) for a better price.
Blue TT
Black
PS I have no affiliation with Iconic, but you seem new to this so thought the links might help.
Last edited by ach5; 16th January 2016 at 19:23.
Sales patter, neither of those two models are hard to obtain in my experience,in Glasgow that is.
you could do worse than visit tom coll in glasgow or jon vincent in hamilton. i've had experience with both and would recommend them.
Only buy a two tone if you are 100% sure that you really really want one...
I think the no date Sub is the best looking Rolex, the TT looks great too but a little too dressy for me personally.
Thanks for all the advice everyone (I am a little new to this and it's much appreciated), I was leaning towards the Stainless, however I'm also quite in to the look of the two tone but think it may be a bit "second hand car salesmen" in its image, I dunno how it will look on the wrist, I was quite surprised by the look of the GMT and the Millgauss they are much slimmer than I thought they would be and the face seemed smaller than I expected having only previously seen pictures.
I am indeed in Glasgow and I will have a look in all the shops mentioned and shop around.
I work in construction and I am slightly worried that the two tone may be a bit flash as I am only 30 and I work in construction and dunno if I will wear it to work, I don't often have an occasion to wear a suit and think it may be a bit to dressy.
Is Jon Vincent based in Newton Mearns? I may go and have a look tomorrowOriginally Posted by drhexagon
Another question that has been bothering me, if one of you very knowledgeable people could help out? If I purchase from somewhere that is a grey dealer, does the Warrenty offered with a new watch transfer to a second owner, who's name may not be on the Warrenty card?
If you buy from Iconic or Watchfinder (the two most commonly ones banded about here) there will be no warranty issues. The card will often be un-named, and dated the day it was sent to Iconic from one of their network of authorised dealers, typically a few days before you get it. It's the best way unless you have a good relationship with an AD yourself - they do all the discount negotiation for you.
The Newton Mearns' Rolex dealer is Eric Smith - where I bought my first Rolex (the 16600 Sea-dweller) in 2009. Jon Vincent is in Hamilton.
Rolex dealers (as far as I'm aware) can't offer direct discounts, but can give other incentives (e.g. free extras). I highly doubt any will be able to match the value/price of Iconic (big discount and the same warranty - you just miss out a little in the "shop buying experience"). I would buy from Iconic rather than local dealer in future if I was buying another new Rolex. [Iconic is a bricks and mortar shop in Blackburn near Preston England, with an online shop for the rest of us.]
I am sorry but cannot resist to ask. What experience can you get these days at AD? Free coffee? You are right about iconic though :)
If you are worrying that the TT might be a bit too bling or used car salesman now then I think stick to SS. Those doubts might eat away at you once you have handed over your money, and you'll lose a lot if you then sell the TT.
If you are planning to wear it on site, SS might hold up better.
I really believe your concern about the above is of little consequence compared with the implications contained within "My wife has encouraged me to treat myself to a Rolex which I have lusted after for a while now"
Nigel
In reading your question, it sounds like you may have the wrong idea about "grey" dealers. The watch you get from Iconic or any other grey deal will be brand new. The only other "owner" would be Iconic who bought it from an AD in their network.
Above all else, you should buy what you like.
Remember that buying an expensive mechanical watch is in no way a practical decision. You are much better off with a solar/atomic G-Shock and the rest of the money invested. A G-Shock or smartphone will tell time better than any Rolex ever could. So even if you stick it in a drawer and only admire by the light of the full moon, it doesn't matter.
For me the, TT is too flash and IMHO gaudy. I would never buy or wear it. The SS Sub basically goes with anything ranging from a tuxedo to jeans and a T-shirt. Very versatile, very classic. Keep in mind that a Rolex (no matter the model) will be somewhat flash.
No modern Rolex is rare or hard to get. Rolex churns out these watches by the thousands. At worst you'll have to wait a few days for the watch to ship to you, but otherwise don't let the salesperson's claim of rarity force your hand. The only exception to this is if a model is newly released or some kind of limited edition. Neither is the case for the watches you're looking at.
Finally, when the wife encourages you to buy a watch, the best course of action is to act on this suggestion as soon as possible before she changes her mind.
Last edited by Foodle; 16th January 2016 at 23:20.
Some thoughts from an overly-commercial observer :
The bicolour Sub is a tale of two watches. The black trim (116613LN) is readily available and, it seems, the less popular of the two. I, ahem, know someone with seven secondhand LNs in stock. Grey dealers may expect to source them unworn in the high £6k price range and sell for something in the region of £7,300. That's a c.£1,650 saving off list, but expect to lose a thousand the second you take the stickers off.
The "new blue" 116613LB is a hot watch. While the original "smurf blue" versions seem to enjoy mixed success, the new, darker blue is popular and not so readily moved to grey dealers. Prices are significantly firmer; I sourced one at £7,150 recently but was quoted £7,400 for one this week (possible anticipation of price raise, whether justified or not). However, these trends come and go; I would expect to lose a similar chunk quite quickly.
Obviously, paying full £8,950 RRP for either colour is going to be significantly more expensive an ownership experience. Secondhand examples are available c£6,750+
The steel 116610LN (black trim) is a perennially popular model. Greys will source them unworn in the high £4ks and can just about make it worthwhile if they sell c£5,350. With list RRP being £5,700 retail customers simply pay their money and make their choice. They are around without waiting if you look, but UK ADs will be unwilling to discount. Often the deciding factor will be which supplier, AD or grey, will offer the better deal for a part-exchange that is offered. Tidy secondhand examples are available c£4,750.
Great bracelets on all these models, super watches BUT a chipped or scratched glass will not be replaceable without an expensive service and the ceramic bezels are not indestructible. They can be marked or cracked, or more frustratingly (and very commonly) the integral bezel pip at 60 suffers unsightly damage to its projecting rim. A replacement bezel is very expensive and will also require that full service. "More ice for my backside, please."
The previous generation of sports models with their easily-changed £40 bezel inserts begin to look more like professional tools than the current pretty boys.
Haywood
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 16th January 2016 at 23:45.
Thanks for the words of wisdom, if it wasn't for the wife I would never have purchased any big ticket items, it spurns from the spend thrifty nature passed down from my Irish ancestory and trade unionist forefathers lol.
My opinion has really been swayed towards the black ss sub. I have recently watched the Watchmakers Apprentice and it is not lost on me that Rodger W Smith wears a black sub even though he makes 100k plus watches.
Watches of Switzerland were very helpful today when I was dealing with them, they did the usual offer of Champagne to the wife before offering me a Peroni, the wife politely declined as she is the designated driver at the weekend due to the mileage I do during the week. I on the other hand graciously accepted the offer of "free" beer. I discussed with the salesman what I was looking for in the watch, I was allowed to try around 7 or 8 different models of watch that I had only seen previously in photographs, including the salesmanship own SS black sub as they did not have one in stock. I felt no high pressure sales tactics or anything like that, however I am new to watch buying and don't have many other experiences to base this on
I did have a look around iconic and it seems they have the same watch with a 6% saving. While not a huge saving 6% is 6%, however having a bricks and mortar establishment (I quite like this expression working in construction) to go back to with the warranty appeals to me. I may be wrong and it may be very easy to make a Warrenty claim via any AD with a grey supplied watch.
I take the point with the easily replaced bezel and hope that I will be careful enough to avoid the need for this.
I am also very fortunate to have an excellent independent watch maker who offers Rolex servicing at a good price located less than a mile from my house.
Agreed. I can't imagine gestures such as this come around very often from our good ladies. What ever you go for get it quick before she changes her mind.
Definitely listen to anything Haywood tells you he knows his Rolex and the trade inside out,
interesting for me too as when I obtain my seadweller confirms that I won't be going ceramic part due to the bezel as he says and I just prefer the look of them anyway....
I noticed that in the watchmaker' s apprentice too and was then surprised that my family got a mention (camerer cuss) who George Daniel's was a consultant to in the 60's
did you go a run out to E.N.Smiths? I've always found the staff there to be helpful and friendly.
SubC and non ceramic Subs are vastly different watches.
Ceramic changes the look completely.i haven't had an issue with the ceramic bezel in any of my Rolexes yet in every day wear. I don't use it work on my car because I am challenged that way and don't work on my car or do gardening. So not really sure how it would do. But, much as I respect HM, I would take exception to calling them pretty boys. Look is a matter of preference and if someone prefers the old look, fine. But, based on my experience, I wouldn't deter anyone from going for a ceramic bezel Rolex just because of the concern about replacement cost which I agree is substantial.
Been wearing my SubC for almost 5 years since purchase. As a desk jockey I can say the watch still almost looks new with no issues with crystal, bezel or pip despite a couple of clatters with doors and furniture, although nothing too major.
Don't not buy a watch because you are worried about future damage. Thoroughly recommend the 116610LN and mine's staying with me for life.
Fair enough: it was a slightly naughty comment about watches I like, albeit meant tongue in cheek. I would still pick any of the current ceramic professional Rolexes over most other watches. My point is that for a tool watch to have exposed elements that are easily marked (something I'm glad you've not suffered, of course) and expensive to address is to make for a less practical product which offers little advance over the model it replaced except, for a better bracelet. That is arguably to make the ceramics more of a dress watch than their predecessors.
I could wear any, but I do muck about in boats and choose a 16600 or 16710 as my daily wear simply because they serve every purpose and are more easily kept immaculate.
H
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 17th January 2016 at 14:11.
I was working with a team of professional divers last week and the owner of the dive support vessel was wearing a Deep-Sea. I'll try and take a pic next week. The bracelet was well scratched and the steel part of the bezel was well marked. The sapphire and ceramic parts were unmarked.
My concern is the durability of the cermaic bezel when using heavy impact tools or striking it against an object (obviously not intentionally but it does happen).
I chose not to wear my SubC at work for that reason but have no such concerns with my Marinemaster.
(Ceramic speedie pic stolen from an Omega forum)
Last edited by TimeOut; 17th January 2016 at 14:41.
Lol
Another sighting of the infamous DSOTM pic.
Has been milked enough.
Lol that's one way of looking at it.
I don't dislike the ceramic at all and nice to know from a long term wearer how if has fared, I'm left handed and unless I wear on left would be prone to clonking it.... having a low cost replacement bezel will be very useful to me, plus the non c will make it quicker for me to obtain being cheaper....
I did propose one of Haywood' s ceramic to the mother who was looking for help with which rolex to buy her 18 year old thread on here....
as that was a great price for a sub-c and thought would be pretty durable for him too...
Mr Milton, any chance of the current state of the market regards the non date 114060 and rough and ready prices? I only ask because I'm in the market.
I can relay only how I see things, but since you ask.... The 114060 has been a steady seller since it first came out. I'm not sure why it enjoys greater relative success than its predecessor the 14060 did against its contemporary 16610 sibling-with-date, but it does.
New RRP is £5,000;until recently we could source them from Europe unworn at about £4,050 and sell them at £4,550-4,599. Main agents here will resist discount for the most part, but they are readily to be found. Euro deals are all a bit wobbly at the moment because of currency movements and chatter of February price rise in the Eurozone.
Secondhand I see a tidy, complete example selling for about £4,199 from a wretched dealer like me, while £3,750 for a private deal between individuals might be reasonable. I need to make at least about £600 on a watch or it's not worth playing, so that brings me in as a buyer of a tidy example circa £3,500. I'll begin to sell the earliest examples for less than £4,000 soon, I suppose.
Similar caveats apply as to the other ceramic Submariners. Beware a marked glass, damaged crown or marked bezel, taking special care to look at the rim of the projecting bezel pip. I have heard that Rolex are working on a new design with replaceable bezel pip, just as we used to see in the aluminium inserts. It would make great sense. Otherwise, fixing any of these faults will really be possible only in tandem with a Rolex UK service and pushing well past £500 as a result. If it's a bezel, perhaps double it.
Excellent bracelet, dependable movement, classic watch.....but consider a tidy, complete and recent 16610 at the same time. It remains an extremely durable watch, cheaper to own yet with the addition of a date feature. Yes, we all have phones and calendars, but it is useful. As for the older bracelets, they can't be as good as the current 97200 with its solid clasp and easy micro-adjustment, but the 93250 with solid end links and even the 93150 with curved sheet end-links were both quite tough.
Hope that's been some help,
Haywood
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 19th January 2016 at 10:39.
Regarding the bi metal watches, I do like them but putting the cash on one is a different matter, my friend asked me to go along and look at a car with him and the dealer had a bi metal and it just suited him perfectly..
The new clasp is so much better than the old clasp in look, feel, and functionality. However, the old clasp did prove its toughness over the many years it was in production. The best of both worlds for me is an older watch with a new clasp transplant.
Thanks for your detailed and frank reply. It's much appreciated. I didn't really expect you to discuss your margins on such an open forum.
Regardless, I've set my heart on a 114060 and all being well, will be collecting one from North of the border on Wednesday. I considered the non ceramic models but the prices that dealers were asking were on a par with the current lineup or only one or two hundred pound cheaper which doesn't make sense to me. The only way a 16610 would make sense to me was if it was sub £3k, a little rough around the edges and bought from a member perhaps sans papers. Then I would feel comfortable wearing it as a daily beater.
Fonz, I might be incorrect in my reading of this but I get the impression that you think Iconic is an Internet-only dealer. This is not correct, they do have a bricks & mortar presence as well (and have done for 65 years, apparently).
I bought a Longines from them for my daughter to give to her husband. No problems at all...
Simon
I agree with rajen and not a glove i bought my sub c over a year ago and it still looks like new i didnt buy it as a tool watch ive a tatty old accurist for that, i look after it like id look after anything that cost nearly £6000
Has he bought one yet, this is like pulling teeth.
Now that would be a strange username. It more like 'no TAG love'
Not yet, popping out to see a couple tomorrow, I'll keep you all posted. Hopefully tomorrow afternoon we could potentially have a wrist shot
Quick you need to beat the Rolex price rises and shortages of subs..............
Yeah, I've just read that and taken in with a massive pinch of salt, the WOS dealer I spoke to last week told me that they couldn't source a bluey for love nor money, he would try his best and contact some of his "network", to try to "source" one for me to have a look at in the flesh. Long story short I got a call today to say that within a week he has "sourced" both a black subc date and the two tone for me to try on tomorrow if I'm interested.
Hahahah I'll end up heart over head and buy one now and have to put up with all the Boycie jokes forever more on here lol
The black 116613 LN is easily found but a bit of a slow seller now, with lots available secondhand. The "new blue" 116613 LB (rather than the earlier "smurf blue" LB) is more popular and sourcing one in the grey market at a keen price has been steadily becoming harder over the last six months. If you pay £8,950 for either of the bicolours, however, you're going to take a bath the second you walk out of the shop with it.
If the black one of which you speak is a stainless steel 116610 LN then it's always going to be a watch that, if well looked after, should have quite low costs of ownership.
Edit : I forgot that I'd posted on this same thread days ago. What a twit, but at least I was consistent in my comment!
H
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 22nd January 2016 at 23:54.
May I ask why Rolex charge for (& presumably conduct) a full service for a ceramic bezel replacement?
I understand that if you break the crystal, their logic is that particles of glass may have entered the movement, ergo full service required, but surely this isn't possible with a shattered bezel?
Thanks in advance.
I have had a few Rolex sports models including the 'Bluesy'. I now have a new 114060 which suits me perfectly. I wear it 24/7 and particularly love the excellent design of the strap (On the fly adjustment and brushed steel I don't' even care if it gets scratched. The 'Bluesy' on the other hand made me feel very self conscious when wearing it, I was asked on numerous occasions if it was genuine and ultimately did not like the attention it received. Also, I did not feel comfortable wearing it for every day work or abroad. In addition, I'm a diver and couldn't bring myself to wear it on dives although i'm sure it could easily handle the task. The 114060 on the other hand I have no problem wearing for dives, on holiday and for work. So far I've not managed to damage the ceramic bezel and hope it lives up to it's reputation as a tough tool watch. It is a very understated watch which I really love and hope I can take anywhere and do anything without feeling pretentious. Both watches are beautiful but for me the ceramic SubC is a winner. All the best. Kev
Yes Haywood, the black sub was the 116610 LN, I think this is the model I will be going for. I don't want to be creamed on the price as soon as I leave the showroom and the comments I've seen about the 116613 LN attracting too much unwanted attention and being a bit to bling coupled with the depreciation make it to hard a sell. With that being said, I will be interested to try both on tomorrow and I will keep you all posted how I get on. Thank you all very much for the advice it is very much appreciated, iconic looks good for a slight discount however on this particular model it equates to 2% but the WOS offer of 0% finance allows me to keep my cash accessible for a small monthly payment which is appealing, plus I'll try my best to drink £125 worth of their champagne tomorrow lol
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