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When people first started making shielded wallets, others said they were paranoid conspiracy theorists. Turns out they were just using their brain and thinking ahead.
Spotted in London, someone with a mobile point of sale device. Deal is he dials in a figure less than £30 and touches it on your pocket containing your wallet.
I've tried this with a friends Pos device and it worked. Time to invest in a screened wallet!
When people first started making shielded wallets, others said they were paranoid conspiracy theorists. Turns out they were just using their brain and thinking ahead.
Did you take that photo? Hopefully you called him out / informed the police etc?
Yes it's becoming an increasing problem isn't it.
My new secrid wallet (see thread here) has a metal protection sleeve in it for this. Better than wrapping them in tin foil.
I think something like this might have happened to me, as although I havent had any unauthorised spends, my CC company cancelled my account and are sending me out new cards as they say I had been compromised (they wouldnt / couldnt tell me more).
It's a pain in the a**e as for a week I have been without my cards and spending money (e.g. on food!!) has been very difficult due to the odd way I run my finances! Still it's good to know their anti-fraud systems work.
Last edited by ach5; 17th February 2016 at 09:27.
I had an unauthorised contactless transaction show up on my account, but it was in Portsmouth (I'm in London). I think my card was cloned but can't think how.
Anyone got a good recommendation for a good shielding wallet?
Did you take the photo OP? I regularly use the underground and I now will probably buy one of them fancy wallets. Thanks for the heads up.
Not my photo, but posted by a friend. I will be investing a new wallet based on this though.Originally Posted by ibby7
Same here. Cheers.
This is going around on Facebook. Hopefully like most things on Facebook it's a load of rubbish.
Daft question, but I assume you need to be registered for contactless ?
The only one I have is Apple Pay on one of my debit cards , linked to my phone .
Other reports (not associated with this picture) suggest that it is a real problem.
In that case. I have the upper hand as I'm skint. Touché Mr Theif.
This does seem like one of the first things you would test when rolling out a contactless payment method. Bonkers.
I understand that the issue was brought up when the idea of contactless and no-authorisation-requried transactions was developed.
As ever with such concerns, those who were in favour were in favour, so it went ahead. Progress is always good, isn't it? I can only presume that limiting maximum transaction size for non-authorised transactions was seen as adequate protection.
What about the 'retailer', presumably they do and where the money's going can be traced?
A lot of frauds nowadays appear to be traceable at first glance (since identities need to be checked to open all sorts of financially-related accounts) but the fraudsters still get around it. False identities can still be created, identities can be stolen, unwitting (or greedy) mules can be used with their real identities, and finally some fraudsters use their real identities but then flee back to a home jurisdiction where they know they won't be caught.
The latter approach (real identities used before flight to a safe home jurisdiction) was used in a loans fraud operated from a 'garden shed' in Southall, a few years ago. I'm sure it wasn't the only such fraud.
Additionally I should add that fraudsters can be quite clever but can also be stupid. Some such people simply assume that they won't get caught. The more law abiding of us should never assume that fraudsters necessarily always think it through fully beyond the getting the money stage.
Last edited by markrlondon; 17th February 2016 at 10:19.
Huummm, man spotted on tube with a chuffin great TV aerial sticking out of his back pocket.
This may seem like a silly question, but how would this work if you carry several contactless cards in your wallet? I know that if I tried tapping my wallet when I enter the tube then I'd get 'card clash' and the transaction wouldn't be recorded.
Does anyone know how/if this would apply to this sort of scam? Does carrying 2 or more cards close together in a wallet offer protection?
Is using contactless payment mandatory???
If not then why consider using it??
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
By default new cards usually come with this. Maybe other versions can be requested or it disabled by bank?
I don't and won't have a contactless debit/credit card. Don't trust them, and stories like this confirm why. If I want to make a small purchase from a newsagent etc, I'll carry on using notes and coins until they abolish them.
Yes - you can request one from your bank without the contactless bits
B
Good to know! Less chance these scamming b*stards will be getting anything from me.
Really not surprising at all to see this.
Won't be at all surprised if it's a hoax; that said it could work in principle, certainly.
I'd have a bit more confidence in these things if they were optical, like a barcode reader.
The very day contact-less payments were announced I said to my wife this is exactly what will happen and thats when it was limited to a tenner! I am not surprised in the slightest…
On the tube, when you ever get a hold up at the gates now you can bet its someone using a bank card and not an oyster. Having to now work in a trendy area we get iPhones being used too - far safer having to Touch ID but it holds things up even more! Apple's system is safer than the rest - and people are annoyed that they are bricking the phone when the sensor is change but you can understand why… lose your phone and your bank account could be wiped out too.
I'm a big user of Apple Pay, and will be requesting a non contactless card and will continue to use Apple Pay via my phone/watch which is far more secure.
There's a reason why its £30 -
you phone them up and any decent card issuer will refund you if its fraudulent... and replace the cards too
If you have two contactless cards next to each other in your wallet then this won't happen - the transmissions from multiple cards creates a jumbled, unintelligible stream.
I'm assuming this must be a numbers game, or can he tell who has contactless cards and which pocket they're in?
I'm ok, because yet another debit card has become non-contactless.
If anybody is considering an RFID wallet, these are worth considering:
http://www.all-ett.com/mens-wallets/rfid-wallets.html
Don't worry about the fact that it's an American site, they ship quickly and I've not been caught with any Customs charges on the two wallets that I've bought from them.
Thanks, a useful tip!
Doesn't look like Its in London, all the handrails on tubes, buses etc are brightly coloured, rather than stainless steel.
Spotted in London, someone with a mobile point of sale device. Deal is he dials in a figure less than £30 and touches it on your pocket containing your wallet.
I've tried this with a friends Pos device and it worked. Time to invest in a screened wallet!
^ Well spotted, and they have glass partitions too.
So another urban myth?
I guess it's likely to be a metro system that has mobile phone coverage underground, which I believe is needed to operate the POS devices. The Tube only has wifi in stations and of course cell coverage above ground.
Edited to add:
It's apparently an image from Poland, according to Google Reverse Image Search. I really should get back to work.
Last edited by alfat33; 17th February 2016 at 18:12.
My friend who posted this was from London so I assumed it was there. Apologies if not. But the principle and risk remain.
Indeed, not trying to be picky, just curious. I think it's spreading across the internet for good reason.
Just as wifi signals can coexist so can RFID. Any failure would be a programmed safeguard to avoid ambiguity related to multiple presentation.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Lots of secrid wallets on eBay going slightly cheaper than the op's web link.
How about using cash! What a crazy idea!
Won't get mine! I have those Card Guard cards.
Just to be clear I haven't posted any sales links nor am I selling them in eBay!
I didn't say........
I bought one anyway!
Interestingly enough I was discussing this very topic with one of my colleagues this lunchtime, whilst it is a risk I very much doubt one could not spot some funny activity around their wallet pocket even in rush hour tube, so cynic in me thinks that someone has a few 'RFID proofed' wallets to sell..
PS just noticed posts above, my comment is not aimed at the OP.
Last edited by VDG; 17th February 2016 at 20:05.
Normally no, most Banks and credit card companies use an opt out rather than opt in system.
You don't need a wifi or wired connection for the majority of contactless transactions. By there nature eye are relatively low value so most systems accept the card without checking with the bank there are adequate finds, such checks happen later. Banks perform random checks by ensuring a sample of transactions are checked 'live'
It's only contactless or an Oyster card on london public transport.
I'll definitely be opting out, never saw the appeal of these in the first place and the drawbacks are so bleedin' obvious.
Or it's some market stall holder on his way to/from work :-)
I really don't see what the big deal is.
For a start it is probably an urban myth. Should this be a real risk, let's face it it is not exactly a huge one. It is not going to bankrupt anyone.
Transaction limited to £30, and a decent bank will no doubt refund in case of fraud anyway.
Given the convenience of the system, it is a risk I am more than happy to take.
I think you are a lot more likely to be a victim of fraud by simply using a conventional debit/credit card, especially on the phone or face to face, but most of us accept that risk.
It's reported elsewhere that the photo is actually from Russia.
- - - Updated - - -
It's reported elsewhere that the photo is actually from Russia.
I think the risk of this kind of drive-by fraud is probably exaggerated. It does exist, but to be able to do it, someone has to get hold of a merchant account and if fraud is detected, the transactions will be reversed by the bank.
However, I have already asked to have my contactless debit cards replaced with non-contactless ones (I also asked for the same for my credit cards, but they wouldn't replace those). The reason being, if I go into a shop and want to pay for something under £30, quite often what will happen is the POS machine is behind the counter, the teller will ask for my card. At this point I assume this is because they have one of those older dial-up ones that requires the teller to key in the sales details before handing it back for the PIN. Except, if they've got a contactless terminal, they will quite often just swipe it without me getting any opportunity to see what I'm being charged, much less authorise it.
The only way I can tell whether I'm being charged the right amount is to check my statement later. I don't have time for that, nor do I have time to keep every receipt so I can double-check everything after the fact. How many times did you go to buy something on 'two for one' offer and been charged for both items?
Drive-by fraud has a similar problem in that if the charges are low enough, most people will never notice them and thus, won't report them. Whether the AI-based fraud detection mechanisms will prove effective enough remains to be seen. However, this is how the majority of modern fraud prevention works anyway. The actual level of security provided by chip & pin is a complete joke as well, as illustrated by the fact that card skimming at ATMs was so prevalent for a few years.
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