Buying pre-loved: The importance of papers and boxes?

[JCJM]

EDIT:


Due to avoid misunderstandings: lets presume that the seller is an established, long time WIS with impeccable references. - A person that can be trusted. Lets also presume that the watch has not been stolen or anything like that. A normal watch, just that the box and papers have been misplaced as sometimes happen.

This is a general question and has nothing to do with any particular watch.

*********

So, how important is it to you that a used watch comes with all papers and boxes?

Of course if it is a rare find it can be argued that the importance of papers and boxes diminished because
the rarer the watch in question as finding any specimen, with or without boxes, is hard enough already.

Anyway, what is your opinion regarding the "must be with box and papers" :?:

Thanks! :)

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Hi Jussi - mixed feelings here TBH.

I have bought very rare pieces with zero - anything other than the watch head - but then this is often the case with some of these.

I have bought nice pieces with incomplete papers and boxes etc. Deals were good and seller came with a good recommendation.

I would be cautious about buying a recent watch that was missing these items unless the seller was 100%........

[Dave E]

I prefer to buy the seller, the presence of box and papers is something I view in that context.

[J.Wayne]

I see you've decided on the Rolex Sub Jussi. :D

The only time this seems to be discussed more is with regards to Panerai.
If I want a beater Rolex I prefer to not have the box nor papers as it lowers the price.
Whilst out and about gambling few carry around paraphernalia either! :shock:


J.

[JCJM]

I see you've decided on the Rolex Sub Jussi. :D

No, I have not.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I see you've decided on the Rolex Sub Jussi. :D

No, I have not.

:wink:

[jwg663]

I've bought a couple of cheapies without documentation...
.
Easy to sell on as they were very cheap...
.
Bought one mid range {for me} without B&P &
I'm OK about it...
.
Needs to be a stone bargain IMVHO...
.
Take it easy...
.
Jim...

[J.Wayne]

I see you've decided on the Rolex Sub Jussi. :D

No, I have not.

Hey, don't hate a brother for tryin'. :rr:


J.

[JCJM]

[quote=J.Wayne]

I see you've decided on the Rolex Sub Jussi. :D

No, I have not.

Hey, don't hate a brother for tryin'. :rr:


J.[/quote:8w950qts]

No hate, just love :wink:

[GeoffD]

for stuff like a G-Shock or a Marathon for example, it doesn't matter to me. For a vintage piece that might be 50 yrs old, it's nice but not that important. For a Rolex or Omega or similar AD purchase that's not all that old I expect all the bits unless it really is a bargain.
Where it has stopped me buying is where something is described as being as new, usually saying the plastic protection is still in place, but for some reason they "can't find" the box or papers!

[Ming Thein]

As always, one buys the seller...I'd worry about box and papers for newer pieces, especially if still under warranty.

Ming

[simonsev]

Interesting question as I was thinking this sort of thing through the other day, I will not buy second hand watches at all and although I know it cuts me out of certain levels of ownership I can not come to grips with owning one of our little mechanical marvels that has been used by someone else. They are like all machines to me, they must be "run in" and will forever reflect the initial treatment in their break-in phase. But thats just me......One exception for me would be watches handed down in the family.

[J.Wayne]

No hate, just love :wink:

Great pic Jussi!

The VW is spot on, but the babes are a little atypical. Not complaining, just sayin'.



Here's something I uploaded to put things in better context.

Janis _1

Janis _2

As much as I love Robert Plant, take notice in the second video. Anything look familiar? His entire act maybe? lol
The expression on Mama Cass' face says it all!
She was truly an original one of a kind.
Her beauty radiated from the depth of her soul and poured out every pore.


Peace,
J.

[Neil.C]

You very rarely get box and papers with vintage watches.

If I was buying a recent watch I would expect all the paperwork.

[omegaUK]

i would also expect the paperwork for a recent watch purchase as howver honest the WIS is , sometimes they themselves may have been taken.

For exmap[le at Timezone a few months ago, a well established watchseller from John Holbrooks site sold a WIS on TZ an Omega PO , which he went to sell on to a third well known WIS. It was only after a while, when 3rd buyer posted his watch pics did it transpire it was a good fake :cry: :cry: :cry:

I am pretty sure that non of the indivduals knew it was a fake when they sold it.

[Gunscrossed]

i would also expect the paperwork for a recent watch purchase as howver honest the WIS is , sometimes they themselves may have been taken.

For exmap[le at Timezone a few months ago, a well established watchseller from John Holbrooks site sold a WIS on TZ an Omega PO , which he went to sell on to a third well known WIS. It was only after a while, when 3rd buyer posted his watch pics did it transpire it was a good fake :cry: :cry: :cry:

I am pretty sure that non of the indivduals knew it was a fake when they sold it.

I remember a similar thing happening on Paneristi :?

[redmonaco]

as previously said, if the watch would still be under warranty then of course I would expect all papers. I prefer to buy with everything available but if it is a few years old and the price reflects then it would not bother me.

[bricktop]

Entirely depends on the price....

[Onkel C]

I voted for the last option as I don't buy used watches at all :(

[GeoffD]

i would also expect the paperwork for a recent watch purchase as howver honest the WIS is , sometimes they themselves may have been taken.

For exmap[le at Timezone a few months ago, a well established watchseller from John Holbrooks site sold a WIS on TZ an Omega PO , which he went to sell on to a third well known WIS. It was only after a while, when 3rd buyer posted his watch pics did it transpire it was a good fake :cry: :cry: :cry:

I am pretty sure that non of the indivduals knew it was a fake when they sold it.

I remember a similar thing happening on Paneristi :?

Unfortunately the latest generation of so called "ultimate" replicas can have equally good fake box and papers for an extra $90!

[bricktop]

I voted for the last option as I don't buy used watches at all :(

Why not?

[watchcollector1]

Again I'd agree that buying the seller is key.

If the seller is trustworthy then I wouldn't have a problem with buying a watch without box or papers but I'd only do so if the price is favourable(especially if it was for a watch I that would normally be out of my price range).

[Onkel C]

I voted for the last option as I don't buy used watches at all :(

Why not?

Can't stand the thought of somebody having worn it before.

[Seamus]

Bought a couple of Marathon SAR watches without box or papers, frankly I didn't care if I got the grey cardboard box or not.

On more expensive watches and/or if the watch is newish I expect the box and papers to be included, which they have been the last couple of times I bought pre-loved.

This way there is also nothing to explain, should one want to flip a more expensive watch later.

Thomas

[bricktop]

[quote=Onkel C]

I voted for the last option as I don't buy used watches at all :(

Why not?

Can't stand the thought of somebody having worn it before.[/quote:wbt57zdm]
I simply change the strap (I don't like pre-worn leather straps...) and give the watch a nice wash-up.... that's it for me.

:)

[Onkel C]

[quote=bricktop]

I voted for the last option as I don't buy used watches at all :(

Why not?

Can't stand the thought of somebody having worn it before.

I simply change the strap (I don't like pre-worn leather straps...) and give the watch a nice wash-up.... that's it for me.

:)[/quote:dj1htgjz]
you could do the same with a woman, but it wont turn her virgin again. :D

[bricktop]

[quote=Onkel C][quote=bricktop]

I voted for the last option as I don't buy used watches at all :(

Why not?

Can't stand the thought of somebody having worn it before.

I simply change the strap (I don't like pre-worn leather straps...) and give the watch a nice wash-up.... that's it for me.

:)[/quote:1vln4i9g]
you could do the same with a woman, but it wont turn her virgin again. :D[/quote:1vln4i9g]
If you see it that way... well - I see your point :wink:

[BMONSTER]

To me it is not that important.

Only with certain brands like Rolex or Omega it really adds to the value.

With newer watches it is more important than older ones.

However I have bought my 2003 ExplorerII without box / papers as the price was right and I am wearing it quite often so it will never be a real collectors piece anyway. With my Tudor Chrono I wanted a complete set as it is a collectible watch as a complete package.

If the seller is trusted and the price is right, I have no problems with lacking B/P. I consider it a bonus if B/P are included.

[tertius]

I voted for the middle option (ie the price must reflect it) but I really think its an "it depends" sort of question.

My last three "serious" purchases have all been with B&P (JLC, Stowa and Sinn) and I think I much prefer it that way - the whole package is part of the experience.

Certainly I've been looking out for a couple of expensive-ish watches and I won't consider any without box and papers.

As many have said if its a newer watch or a more expensive purchase then i think box and papers are a must. However, for an older or cheaper purchase, well who cares really?

[MartinMW]

I prefer to buy the seller, the presence of box and papers is something I view in that context.

Absolutely agree with that sentiment :)

Cheers
Martin

[JCJM]

I prefer to buy the seller, the presence of box and papers is something I view in that context.

Absolutely agree with that sentiment :)

Cheers
Martin

Valid point but many watches have done the rounds before ending up with their current sellers.

[ChronoCop]

Papers and boxes usually grant a somewhat more favourable resale price. This is the main reason why I'm a fan of the complete package. It has nothing to do with trust or fear of replicas/copies since I am not able to buy in these price regions.

Cheers
Brane

[VinceR]

For me, if the watch is a current model then I'd expected the boxes/papers. As a result I did not buy an X-33 2nd Gen, it was for sale at 600 notes but without any boxes/papers. Whereas I'm not going to wear the boxes/papers to me it is part of the package. Similarly I'd not buy a car without service history.

[MikeB]

One thing I cannot understand is a new watch being sold without any box or papers, doesn't sound kosher to me :(

[Gustav]

If i "know" the seller there is no problems for me buying a watch whitout boxes of paper, even if it´s a new one.

For example: My local AD was robbed and boxes, papers, certs etc etc was stolen. He only had a couple watches left, and I could buy them with great discount, so no problems there.

But like always: Buy the seller!

Best,
Gustav

[DeusIrae]

Of course if it is a rare find it can be argued that the importance of papers and boxes diminished because the rarer the watch in question as finding any specimen, with or without boxes, is hard enough already.

The converse may also be argued. A substantial premium may be paid for an otherwise identical rare watch because it does have the box and papers.

This is a general question and has nothing to do with any particular watch.

Then there is no answer as the question may only be properly answered with reference to individual watches, price to be paid and manufacturers. If you're looking at a sub $100 Seiko watch, box and papers might be viewed as simply increasing the postage cost. If you're looking at a $100,000 Patek or Rolex watch, box and papers might be viewed as essential.

[walkerwek1958]

If the watch is in the right condition and is definitely authentic I would buy without box & papers, although for a recent watch I`d be suspicious. A good watch without B & P beats a flawed example with B & P anyday. Beware fake boxes too!