Reply With QuoteRead a couple of posts up pleaseOriginally Posted by Andyg
Proof please - then send it to the RFU and let them decide.
However while we are at it, let's look at some of the high tackles lreland made, playing men off the ball (which should have received yellow cards), a couple of deliberate knock on's (in the final 10 - more yellow cards) playing men in the air, dropping the scums on the 5m line and failing to roll away. None of which was rewarded with a single yellow card. And let's have another look at the Harley try again - the one scored by Ben Youngs.
Perhaps we should look how Brown got a lump knocked out of his head in the first half - the clue was the cut on his head?? Or was he targeted? Would not be the first time a full back was targeted.
But then again perhaps you should just accept that Ireland were not good enough this year and man up.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Read a couple of posts up please
I think you're indulging yourself a little there in hyperbole. It is unfortunate that he was injured, obviously no one likes to see that as an end result independent of the colour shirt he was wearing. Having seen a multiple of c-spine injuries in work I agree completely that neck rolling should be penalised out of the game and should be treated more harshly than a simple penalty.
He was entitled to attempt to kick through the ruck, Murray holds the ball into him on the floor to prevent him doing so. if it's intentional he should be cited, we all know that. The ref, TMO and touch judges viewed the footage and interpreted it as accidental.
Do you draft comedy scripts too?
Did you watch the game?
Which one? Jim's?? The one which makes reference to the Tower of London - seriously?
But I am not sure why? It was you who judged him guilty and it was you who decided it was completely deliberate. As for the "cynical smile" - you have no idea what he was smiling at. It might have been that yet another Englishman was going in the bin.
Lets face it, Ireland played against 14 men for 1/4 game and still lost. But welcome to pain England has felt for the past 2 seasons, losing the championship on point difference, dispite one year actually beating Ireland.
But that's sport and why we endure it.
If Brown is cited and then found guilty then Goode will play instead - my perferred option to be honest.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
'Entitled' in sport doesn't mean you have to callously and deliberately rake your studded footwear across a fellow players eye/face knowing there can only be one outcome - potential serious, life changing injury of that fellow professional. There is a point at which it's no longer sport that's taking place but flagrant disregard for another human.
Even the devil sport football sees players hold back when a fellow player is vulnerably placed whether there's an entitlement or not. But then in rugby that lads and in soccer it's thuggery!
callously and deliberately rake your studded footwear across a fellow players eye/face???
It was reviewed by the officials, they called it as accidental, for me it was careless and I think Brown will be cited but just before you get too far up your moral mountain lets have a look at this bit of play...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teqizuet-ck
Any thoughts??
You really want to start pulling up incidents from games years ago?
Isn't that the reason behind the comments about Hartley as captain??
Which would give Jones the second ball player and may create a space for Tuilagi to come back into 12 if fit, as I'd look forward to him and Roberts facing up.
I'm really struggling to engage with this. It's a game where 30 players risk 'potentially serious, life changing injury' most times they take themselves into contact, whether that be head, neck, spine, knee or whatever. I've already said if deliberate then Brown will be cited and will deserve the punishment handed down. If you watched the game you'll have seen Murray takes the ball into contact, doesn't release, holds onto the ball on the floor and then prevents Brown rucking it away. At very basic level in junior rugby you're coached to release the ball on the floor and take evasive action by covering your head, face or gentleman's area as appropriate to the level of concern for each area of one's anatomy. Hypothetically (and this doesn't excuse Brown IF it was deliberate) if Murray had released the ball and covered his head we'd be in a situation where Brown booted the ball upfield and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
No
my post where I said England were the better team
Both teams indulged in some pretty "robust" play but the Brown raking left a nasty taste. It wasn't the first kick or the foot going back into Murrays face which I could accept as accidental, but the 3rd attempt when he changed feet to get more power into it. As with the spear tackle are the players not meant to have a duty of care? Actually thought it was a cheap, nasty shot as although Murray was holding on to the ball, Brown went too far.
Thought the ref totally bottled a red card just before the Care incident. Not for Care who was unfortunate to get a yellow but for Haskell who came back on from his sin binning and immediately killed the ball at the ruck on the wrong side. It was so blatant and the red scrum cap just highlighted it was him. Couple of phases later Care got pinged which felt like the ref reacting to his letting Haskell off.
England easily deserved it and the key game coming up is Wales. Really looking forward to that one.
Scotland played some lovely rugby yesterday in attack and if they could just not switch off for spells during games they could be pretty good. They just need some better subs on the bench. Vern must stay.
Last edited by alas58; 28th February 2016 at 10:32.
I've attended many 6N games in person, along with hundreds of other rugby games, and one of the joys of watching the sport is sitting next to an opposition fan and seeing their joy/disappointment at events on the pitch, as well as expressing your own.
At the end of a game, one of the great traditions is that both sides shake hands and move on, whatever has just happened on the pitch.
Maybe some on this thread should do the same, lest it all become a bit 'football'....
And yes, England were the better team and deserrved their win. I enjoyed all three games this weekend, none of them were 'dire', I just think we have to remember that not every game can be an expansive 55-48 try fest.
I shall be at Twickers in two weeks time wearing my Wales shirt, I hope if I'm sitting next to some of you, you behave yourselves!
Not been to any of the six nations, though watched a fair few autumn internationals on the hallowed turf! That being said, am a season ticket holder to Saracens and we have been brutal this year - it's truly showing in england shirts too. I'm probably slightly bias but big Billy, Farrel, Kruis and now Maro Itoje are in absolute beast mode! Roll on the grand slam! :p
It' all been pretty average for me so far. The Premiership has been far more exciting this weekend with over 40 tries scored.
Haskell is my biggest issue with this England team at the moment.
I've never been a fan of him as a player but decided to spend some time watching him individually yesterday which was made fault easy by the red scrum cap. His major contributions consisted of blocking a player in a ruck so a turnover could be made and making a couple of tackles.
Pathetic for your 7 who should be a ball carrier and pain at the breakdown. He needs dropping asap.
Impressed with Vunipola, Kruis, Care, Farrell and Nowell again. All gave go forward and posed a threat.
The Care sin bin was a joke.
Mike Brown is entitled to use his feet in the ruck cynical or not. If Murray had played the ball properly rather than holding on to it illegally it would have been nowhere near his head/face.
England need to drop Haskell and robshaw. The rest of the pack are solid and the backs are nicely balanced but still lacking a big spark in the midfield.
Agree Haskell should be no where near the XV. I think Robshaw is doing a solid enough job. In the future I do wonder if we'll see Itoje at 6, Launchbury and Kruis at 4/5. I think that with Billy Vunipola at 8 would give enough work rate to get a scavenging 7 like Kvesic in there. May have to cap Sam Underhill soon as he's been a monster in the Pro 12 this year.
I'd like to see Dave Ewers in the England back row once he's at full fitness again. Fortunately for Chiefs that won't be this season.
Not further action to be taken against Brown dispite what Keith Wood had to say about it.
Time to move on.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
How unfortunate for the pitch fork brigade!
Tongue firmly in cheek.
To be fair, the citing boards rarely get things wrong.
Would that be fortunate or the negative fortunate 😀😀😀👍👍👍👍
Peace Brother Olly.
I'm only picking up on this thread since yesterday. It's getting a tad heated, unfortunately
Agreed, just joking around. Think Tooks summed it up well earlier about whatever happens it should all end up with a handshake.
Think a lot of the problem is the fact it was Brown doing it. Does not endear himself to people watching or other players probably with his actions and displays of triumphalism and pettiness sometimes.
But .......... could you imagine the reaction if Hartley had been the one involved. The media would have been wetting themselves with excitement and hypoctical condemnation. Could have been fun though.
I think in fairness to the players, it does. However the media needs to find something to talk about, just as we do, and things start to get heated.
I am sure that before the competition is finished we will have lots more points to discuss (and get wrong), but to some extent we should try to stick to facts and what we know, rather than what we believe/think. Especially when based upon historical events.
Play up, play up and play the game
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Blimey - squeaky bum time in Wilts. Great 70 minutes from England. Epic 10 minutes from Wales against 14. But I would love love to know exactly how many try's England have scored only to be disallowed.
Well done England and Eddie. Maro is really something special.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Would have been a travesty had they lost but oh my word it looked very possible! Had they come back again it could have been a real set back mentally however they didn't so onwards to the Grand Slam.
Brilliant
Had a conversation last Saturday with a colleague who said " If we beat Wales, I'll take you to Paris for the Grand Slam" !
His phone seems to be off now though .
Really enjoyed the game. I thought the ref was fair and consistent throughout. Wales show they are still a hugely strong team in those last 15 or so minutes but I think this was helped by a large numbers of replacements made by england when they obviously thought the game was in the the bag. This obviously disrupted the flow the team had. Also due to the fact england only had 14 men on the pitch which is always going to be harder to defend with and I think england where v lucky. I think Gatland needs to look at his starting 15 though, his replacements turned the game, the finishing 15 should be his starting 15 next week.
I'm wondering about the incident that led to Dan Cole being sent to the sin bin.
As far as I can tell, immediately before that incident a Wales player committed foul play against Cole - the trouble being that the foul play was only revealed after Cole had been sin-binned. My query is, could the Wales player's foul play have contributed to Cole's misdemeanour and, if so, should/could he have been brought back on early?
I couldn't comment if a foul was committed against Cole before hand or if it contributed to Coles sending off. I'd suggest if foul play has been seen then if warranted suitable action can be taken on review after the game. But this is the trouble, how far back do you go, how many slo-mo replays do you watch to find the initial offender? Slo-mo replays I think while they have their place are having an small adverse effect on the game, they're making things look a lot worse in some cases than they actually are. Don't get me wrong they are useful in a number of circumstances but they should be evened out with replays in real time. A good hard tackle in slo-mo looks a lot worse than in real time.
Be careful it wasn't a euphimism ;)
Cole was penalised for collapsing the scrum, collective yellow card after a warning and subsequent infringement.
After he collapsed the scrum, Francis had his hand in Coles face. For me there is not enough evidence for deliberate gouging but its reckless and he'll get a 12 week ban like Ashton. I thought it would either be a harsh red or a copout yellow and was gobsmacked when it was just a penalty. However its entirely seperate to Coles initial offence and yellow card.
It was a fantastic game. The atmosphere in the stadium was amazing as always.
Ah ok, thanks. I think I remember the replay now. From what I saw there was a few bodies in there and my initial thoughts where that as Francis was going in his arm made contact with someone else which moved his hand into Coles face. Not alot he could've done about it IMO. I only saw it the once and I was on my way out of the room so it'll be interesting to see what, if anything comes of it.
Francis will be cited and should get a mid term ban. Think England were great for 65 mins and George Ford had a good game defensively despite Roberts, North and Faletau running into the 10 channel. Think Manu was very good when he appeared but the number of substitutions took the momentum out of the game for England. Wales were good against 14, but really should have brought more to the contest earlier. Very relieved with the win and hopeful for Paris!
Just showed what an anomaly Wales' world cup win was. England were at least 20 points better (as they were at the world cup), I wouldn't read too much into the last 15 as England eased off too much with the replacements. Replay that game 10 times and 10 times England win by more. Don't forget England passed up 2 really simple tries in the first half and for all the talk of Wales not turning up in the first 60, I still think Wales playing well would still have got beaten. No shame in that, we are witnessing the rebirth of a strong new England and I suspect Gatland is worried that his chance of silverware in future is massively restricted now that one of the greatest coaches in the world is working with a team that has a few players who have genuine potential to get into a World XV.
Itoje was incredible, in fact only really Youngs had a poor day at the office, obviously the try he gave to Wales was one thing but he also missed the easy pass to stick Watson into the corner for a try as well.
I am in the Stade de France next week and can't see anything other than a slam for England
Last edited by ryanb741; 13th March 2016 at 08:28.
Think Marler may get in trouble for his forearm to the face when Coles went over for the disallowed try and/or for calling Samson Lee gypsy boy.
Also I reckon nowells knocked the ball back when north had a try disallowed but then I'm welsh and the better team won no doubt.
Won't look forward to playing Itoje, he looks immense
I'm no rugby expert at all but hung on going to my soul night for the result.....nailbiting.... but saw Woodward mention the replacements (as well as repositioning and yellow card) made England look like world cup again...
.but... Jones said he was (very riskily as it turned out)
thought win was in bag and he wanted to try out some ideas and combinations and he got them wrong in a test match so he probably won't do it again!
I saw this yesterday and just found it a 01:41:35 on ITV online:
To me, it looked like a raking stamp. Some protection would be offered by the scrum cap, but was it legal?
Last edited by PickleB; 13th March 2016 at 14:17. Reason: added hyperlink
Touché Scotland. Cracking performance and absorbed a lot of French pressure for a well deserved scalp. Stuart Hogg is quite a player.
Scotland did very well, however once again France looked shocking. Missed kicks the first half and to much turnover ball in the second.
Best man on the pitch after Hogg was the ref in my book. I thought he had a pretty good game - which is indeed praise coming from me.
Champions - roll on next week and hopefully another poor display from France
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Was this the incident that led to James Haskell calling Lee a gypsy. Personally I would have called him a lot more if he tried to scalp me.I saw this yesterday and just found it a 01:41:35 on ITV online:
To me, it looked like a raking stamp. Some protection would be offered by the scrum cap, but was it legal?
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Wasn't it Marler on the naughty step for calling Lee a gypsy? Either way suspect there's enough in it for the citing commissioner in the week.
Last edited by Olly; 13th March 2016 at 20:04.
Well, I don't think verbal abuae of that sort has a place in the game whatever the 'provocation'. I understand Eddie Jones said as much at half time and Marler has apologised.
Getting back to the rugby, England are deserving of the 2016 6N championship, so congratulations to them and their fans. They have been by far the more consistent team, and both Ireland and Wales just haven't turned up for a large portion of their games.
It's a good start for 'new' England, and I will be watching with interest how the new coach and team develop. The media and RFU will start to pile the pressure on England soon I think, they always do, and it will be a real measure of Jones and the Emgland team how they cope with that weight of expectation.
As for the tournament, it hasn't been a classic one unfortunately, and it's always disappointing when the championship is sewn up with a game to spare. I know England fans still have the Grand Slam attempt to look forward to, but I hope France manage to make a spectacle of it whatever the outcome.
Last edited by Tooks; 13th March 2016 at 19:26.
Ha, better a bit of bad language than biting, punching, shoeing, head butting, spear tackling or gouging.
My son played in an U13 game today and I heard some pretty fruity language from coaches and a few of the players. Just part of the game, but more importantly they all shook hands at the end and sat down to lunch together.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
You are correct sir.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Does Eddie Jones ever smile?
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