I thought I'd see what people think of this situation. I'm a bit 'close' to it, which can distort perspectives. I bought, from a UK AD, a brand new Day Date 40, about two weeks ago. We're often asleep by midnight, but I quickly noticed that the day and date did not change over at the correct time. On one occasion it changed at 0120am, 100 minutes late.
I range the service centre at West Malling, who said it seemed faulty and that I should take it to them. I did so, involving a round journey of three hours. There was no sense of apology from them, or sense of urgency that a new watch costing a huge sum of money was faulty. They said I should hear from them in two weeks.
Later, I rang the AD, who was apologetic but only suggested that , if it helped, the watch could eventually be shipped back to them, for collection by me.
I can't help thinking I would have got a more active response if I'd bought a cheap but faulty item on amazon or Ebay. The whole response seems bureaucratic and , ultimately, indifferent.
I can't help wondering if I should have returned the watch to the AD and asked for my money back. At least that would have woken them up.
What do you think is reasonable in this situation?
Last edited by paskinner; 7th April 2016 at 15:13.
I would have either asked to book the watch in whilst living with it in the mean time or a full refund. Both of which would have no doubt been refused.
Just demand your money back and see if they shuffle into action a bit quicker.
I had a PO bought new that had a date change issue. Was away from me for a total of 4 months over 3 visits to Omega UK.
I did the pre paid pack thing with Omega after the first time dropping it in myself was a waste of time.
Last edited by TimeOut; 7th April 2016 at 15:19.
I remember your original post. Not great service true. If it comes back fixed then put it down to experience otherwise ask for a refund as unfit for purpose.
I think Rolex differentiate between movement and case so a top notch case has little impact on their quality of service (or lack of).
Perhaps because the AD was taken out of the loop initially he was taken a bit of guard, to be fair it sounds like he has tried to offer some assistance all be it not what you wanted.
Perhaps speak to the AD again and explain your situation and how unhappy you are and that you would like him to take this up with the service center, use him as the go between for updates to save yourself the trouble as after all that's where you got the watch from. See what response you get before asking for your money back especially if its a watch you really like.
When you are caught up in such a situation it gets surprisingly tricky. I like the watch and don't want a row with either Rolex or the AD.
But what level of customer service should us watch guys expect?
I haven't even had a phone call or email saying what is wrong and when it will be fixed. Just silence.
I take the point about speaking to the AD first, but it was Rolex themselves who wanted me to bring the watch straight to them.
I'm not going to ask for money back now. But I think both the AD and Rolex could have made a bit of effort..
Both have done the absolute minimum required under law. Even the costs of returning the watch, and collecting it, are being carried by me.
Last edited by paskinner; 7th April 2016 at 15:59.
No need to ask for a refund – a simple replacement would suffice, after checking the date changed as expected.
However, having handed the watch to Rolex, you’ve lost those options, especially as the new consumer law change from last October, gives you only 30 days to enact a refund.
Your contract is with the dealer, and as such, you should’ve returned to them and discussed which option you were willing to accept.
Aside from a goodwill gesture, you’re just going to have to wait for its return from RSC in a fortnight’s time – although I’m surprised it’d really need to take so long, as all that needs doing is repositioning of the hands, and a pressure test.
I've only owned the watch for less than three weeks. Half that time it has been in the Rolex service department. And I accept my contract is with the dealer...but it was Rolex who told me to override it. What's more, the AD has known of the situation and not offered to do anything. Whatever the fault is, it's more than repositioning the hands...if you turn the hands manually it changes correctly, if you let it change under it's own steam, it doesn't. That's not a problem with the hands. It could a number of things, including a fault in the self-winding mechanism.Originally Posted by PJ S
I've no intention of using the law over this. but I am going to ask why the customer service from both AD and Rolex has been so indifferent..
Last edited by paskinner; 7th April 2016 at 16:49.
I have just dropped my unworn Speedmaster Tintin to the post office to correct a juddering chrono hand. Someone from the forum kindly provided me with the email address of their Head Of Customer Services, I mailed him last Thursday morning, he called me back and was very apologetic that it had taken a day and a half (I wasn't too fussed but it was appreciated). He arranged for a prepaid, said he would call me personally once it had been inspected and corrected, we also had a 10 minute chat about Omega and some of the stuff they had been doing of late and how they seem to be doing in the marketplace from a watch fans perspective. Of course everything could still go horribly pear shaped but so far their aftersales have been good, shame they were needed but such is life. Hopefully Rolex will sort the watch out quickly.
Your first mistake was not taking a two-week old malfunctioning watch back to the place of purchase to insist on a replacement or refund as per your rights. Or, if neither of those options were acceptable, to allow the AD to send it to Rolex for the fix, at no cost or hassle to yourself.
Why didn't you contact the AD in the first instance?
As said, you should have taken it to AD you bought it from and ask for a replacement.
RSCV will follow its procedure which may not be to your liking.
Re: I can't help thinking I would have got a more active response if I'd bought a cheap but faulty item on amazon or Ebay.
Is not a fair comparision really.
I bought a nose trimmer from Argos.
It didn’t work.
Didn’t drive to Remington in Wisconsin and ask them to fix it, just popped back to Argos and swapped it.
Go to bed early.
I don't understand the issue here, new watch is faulty, fault admitted, watch taken in for fix.
Wear another while it's fixed.
Result.
You just went to Defcon 1.
I bought the new sea ray 400 fly it's moored in Marina Marbella, it broke, so I used my sun sport for a week, I was furious I had to hold my own drink as the table on the sunsport is so small.
Should I ask for a free cup holder on the sunsport.
Last edited by Fords; 7th April 2016 at 17:23.
It could be argued that Rolex made a faulty watch and that his warranty is with them.
It could also be argued that some numb-nut from the dealer set the time around midnight causing something to slip in the movement. Or worse, dropped the watch! So it's the dealers fault.
Either way I don't think the OP is really at fault for anything. He could still ask for the watch to be returned to him and exchanged by the dealer.
I agree that taking it back to the AD would have been the best option - as others have said your contract was with them. However you are where you are. Having had a similar situation with a Sea-Dweller that developed a fault (it completely stopped running) after they serviced it I can help set your expectations if it helps. Rolex won't give you any information about what was wrong - they will just give it back with a note saying it's fixed. It's a bit disconcerting because ideally you want an "ah yes, we saw what the problem was and it was X. Awfully sorry" etc etc, but I don't think you'll get any of that.
Having said that they are usually much quicker than some and, although annoying, 2 weeks isn't the end of the world. It probably would have taken just as long to reach an acceptable outcome from the AD.
Well, if they tried to set the date it might have caused a problem - although unlikely, in reality. As it is them having dropped it, unless it landed on something soft enough not to mark it, but hard enough to affect the date mechanism.
I'm not actually sure whether Rolex (or anyone else) warrant the timeliness of the date change on a new watch. I suspect not.
I wasn’t suggesting taking them to court – just using what the new consumer law provides you with.
Last edited by PJ S; 7th April 2016 at 17:33.
I understand this point, and indeed considered it at the time. But it seemed common sense to ring Rolex and ask them whether this behaviour was normal. I have never owned a Rolex with a date, let alone a day change. If Rolex had said 'that's a simple issue with the hands, don't worry, we will fix it at the service'' that would have been fine.
But what they said was...''there's clearly a fault; can you bring it back to us and we'l sort it out.''
So,what do I do? New watch, faulty. if I take it to the AD he will just send it to Rolex (after all, he's not going to ignore Rolex's own advice).
The alternative is to ask for my money back there and then, which would have resulted in the AD insisting on sending the watch back to Rolex to show evidence of a fault . So I'm stuck either way..it's going back to Rolex whatever I do.
All I did was speed up the process. The AD still has clear legal responsibilies. And so do Rolex. if I want a refund I have that right. But I don't want a refund.
I just want both the Ad and Rolex to show some sense of urgency over a £25,000 watch that doesn't work, and hasn't from day one. It's not much of a demand really. Anyway, some kind soul on this forum has given me a way to speak to someone pretty serious at Rolex. That's the beauty of the forum. I'm grateful.
BTW: here's what I think should have happened. When I told the AD he should have rung Rolex, got full details of what was being done, urged a quick solution and then rung me to say he was on the case, and that the moment the watch was fixed he would have it couriered to my house, at his expense
The ADs share of this watch would be about £7000. He could have managed a few phone calls and a courier. It's just customer service 101.
Last edited by paskinner; 7th April 2016 at 17:47.
All true. I was just playing devils advocate a bit as Rolex asked him to bring the watch in. The 3 hour round trip would have put me off personally.
I went down the Omega warranty route with my PO as it was scratched up to buggery and over a year old when it developed the fault.
Last edited by TimeOut; 7th April 2016 at 17:44.
I thought the AD had offered to take the watch back once fixed to avoid you having to wait, perhaps I misunderstood but I interpreted that as the AD was taking it out of your hands and they will take the watch back and then give you a call to collect it. The watch has now been sent to Rolex to fix so I am not sure what more the AD could do in this situation. I appreciate you are upset at how indifferent you thought the Rolex service center were when you spoke to them but I don't really know what more you want them to do, if there is a problem with the watch as you say its unlikely its going to be fixed in a day or even a few days.
That's definitely not reasonable customer service.
The reality is, Rolex don't give a stuff about this issue as you're just one out of millions who own/purchase their products. The question I would ask is when it's back and working correctly, will this incident taint your enjoyment of the watch?
As long as it works well, I'l be perfectly happy. Anyway, I am going to talk to a grown-up at Rolex in the morning and we will see. Annoying paying customers, who use proper ADs isn't the most obvious route to further success.
After all, if the AD doesn't give a superior standard of service, why not go grey and save a few quid.
I thought that the buyer had 6 months to return faulty goods?:
"When goods are faulty, if you return them within six months, then it's up to the shop to prove they weren't faulty when you bought them. After this, the burden of proof shifts and it's up to you to prove they were faulty when you bought them."
Source as follows:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/sho...exchange#goods
Correct. And thanks for pointing it out. But I don't want to go down that route. I'd prefer just to have the matter fixed, quietly and quickly.
The reason I started this thread was to see what the general feeling was about guarantee/servicing issues. I think it fair to say there are a range of views.
However, ask yourselves this: if you had just spent many thousands of pounds on a new watch which was faulty, what level of customer care would you wish for? Actually, what level of customer care would you wish for if you had spent a few hundred quid. The principle is exactly the same.
Something interesting is how in general we customers feel shy about checking out goods we're buying. For example, if one were in a VC boutique considering buying a Traditionelle, one of their cheapest watches, how comfortable would we be about doing basic things like checking the hands are properly aligned and move smoothly while you set them, let alone spending a few minutes with a loupe checking the dial for flaws?
OK.
On the face of it, but
It cost £25,000! My expectations wouldn't be far off either the AD or Rolex sending a limo around to collect it for an overnight repair. Given the price paid I can understand the indignation at not being treated like royalty during any interaction with the AD or Rolex.
I have to confess I brought my own loupes to WoS when I bought my Tudor BBB last month and spent all the time I needed scrutinising the watch. I couldn't be 100% sure they weren't going to sell me one that had been tried on/handled a lot previously and picked up a few scratches etc.
Not Royalty, just given good customer service....irrespective of price. I bought a Kindle which was faulty. I had my money back within a couple of hours. And an apology. My Toyota had a minor problem, the garage loaned me a car, collected mine, repaired it, filled up the tank, valeted it and returned it to my door. It cost a lot less than the Rolex and was two years old.
Compare and contrast.......look at the long delays in servicing with many brands. The whole industry needs to wake-up and grasp that expectations are changing. standards of service need to rise...quite a lot.
This would be my view. Spending a huge some through the proper channels and then end up with a faulty watch. I'd expect them to bend over backwards to address the issue.
Sadly I fear Rolex don't value their customers.
I think the fault with the watch has been explained to the OP by folks who take watches to pieces and tend to have an informed opinion. Yes, it's annoying, but the watch has a minor fault that's causing the day/date to stick and not snap forward when it should.
This has NOTHING to do with repositioning hands because the fault isn`t consistent.....THINK about it!, it has NOTHING to do with the self-winding either, why would it? Your watch will go to Rolex UK service centre and they'll fix it. It'll then be fine, you can move forward and enjoy the watch. No point in getting all steamed up about the AD not showing sufficient concern, that doesn`t help you one bit.
Try to be objective: the watch has a fault, the AD will send it back, it'll get fixed in a timely fashion. Moaning about the AD isn`t helping this process; being polite but assertive and asking how long the watch will be away would make more sense.
Paul
That's all very well, but what about Rolex not caring about customers! :)
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
To be honest I am amazed that you did not do that. It is a new item and you should have it replaced or your money back, no questions asked. If this was a washing machine, do you think it would not be reasonable to get a refund or another machine if it proved faulty after 2 weeks? This is a luxury item, so you should be treated better than someone who just purchased a household appliance. This faulty watch should NOT be your problem.
Probably best not to lecture people on their ignorance and bad judgement when you have got almost every single fact wrong. You clearly haven't bothered to read the thread, or even the opening paragraph. .
You need to read what people actually write before you jump in and try to lecture them. And certainly avoid going on about 'informed opinions' when you haven't understood the first thing about this situation.
Go on, treat yourself, just read the opening entry. Spot how many false assumptions you have made.
Last edited by paskinner; 7th April 2016 at 21:46.
The situation here is a little different to what you describe, the OP took the watch to a Rolex service center rather than back to the AD to sort out. To use your comparison to a washing machine it would be like taking the washing machine back to the manufacturer rather than the shop you bought it from which is why in this instance I am not sure what the AD can really do as its been taken out of his hands other than sort out the return of the watch and any update on the watch service which it sounds like he already has.
OP what would you have liked Rolex or the AD to offer you?
Used to be the case, under the old Sale of Goods Act, but it’s now only 30 days for a refund, if you reject the faulty goods.
PA, I think you know the answer to this one yourself.
But you didn't even give the AD a chance to offer any kind of service, you went straight to a Rolex service centre? I'm actually struggling now to understand what your complaint is?
Mate, I`ve tried to give advice and cast some light on what's wrong with the watch. I`ve no wish to lecture you, I`m merely pointing out that you'd do better to focus on the watch itself and getting a satisfactory conclusion in a timely manner. Instead you seem more intent on moaning.
I've followed the saga so far and yes, it's disappointing for you, but instead of simply getting on with the task of returning it you seem intent on whinging. You don`t have to be best buddies with the AD or Rolex, you simply need the right people doing what needs doing; provided that happened I wouldn`t care whether they treated me like royalty or like shit. Indeed, I`d prefer surly but efficient service rather than gushing platitudes and no bloody action. Can`t understand why you took it to Rolex Service centre yourself instead of going through the AD, seems strange to me, and I`m not sure what you expect the AD to say or do.
You're wondering whether you should've returned the watch and asked for money back. Where's the logic in that? You end up with your money but without the watch you wanted.....doesn`t sound like a result to me. The watch will be fine when it's sorted, it isn`t a flawed item riddled with faults that will never be right...........try thinking rationally, it helps!
That's my last word on this, I`m past caring whether your watch works, whether you're pissed off with Rolex, the AD, me or the world at large.........and I`m definitely beyond trying to help you understand what's actually going on with the watch.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 8th April 2016 at 00:00.
How many times do you require me to repeat the same point? It was Rolex who asked me to return it direct to them. As the AD has made clear, he would have had to send it back to them anyway. Further, he wouldn't even consider a refund until Rolex have confirmed a fault.
He wasn't going to get out a hammer and attempt to fix the watch in his shop, and he wasn't going to offer anything until Rolex had inspected the watch. So in what way has the AD been denied a chance to fix the problem? His options remain wide open, and his legal obligations unchanged.
I feel I am now wasting my time with a few people who don't have any stake in this, and want to blame me for problems I didn't cause and can't control.
Thanks to all those who made useful comments and tried to be helpful. Special thanks to the member who has given me a key contact number. So something genuinely useful has come of this, as is usually the case.
Last edited by paskinner; 8th April 2016 at 00:21.
Calm down,PA
Paul is trying to help/guide you.
Everyone sympathises with your situation but people have their own ideas of how to deal with it and everyone's idea of reasonable is different.
Hope you get a satisfactory result in the end.
Christ you really do come across as a megatede op.
Dr Josh prescribes a nice big warm mug of harden the fvck up.
If you believe/were told that the AD wouldn’t have exchanged it or refunded it, then he was not operating within what the law requires of him – plus you would have had recourse via your CC issuer under Section 75a of the Consumer Credit Act.
Sounds like you chose the wrong pockets to line, as he would’ve needed only spend a day with the watch to see that it exhibited the fault.
If using the crown, the date changed at 12:03, for example, then you’d only need to set it and put a a dozen or so turns of the crown in, in order to show that after it still hadn’t changed by 12:18/12:23.
From what I think I understand, it comes across that you only spoke with the AD after speaking with RSC and acting on their instructions – which shows you failed to know your consumer rights.
That all by the by, and given how you feel you’ve not been treated as how one would expect to (from having spent as much as you did), then I’d be telling RSC not to proceed with any repair and return the watch to AD or you're coming to pick it up yourself.
With confirmation that it’s not working properly, then return to the AD and inform them that you are rejecting the watch and want a refund.
When you’re enquiring with other ADs about its re-purchase, ask them what they'd do in such a situation, before deciding who gets the business.
Now, when you’ve climbed down off your high horse, you should consider PM’ing Paul with an apology for having a go at him.
Man buys item that turns out to have a fault, what to do, what to do?
I suppose some would be disappointed that the AD/Rolex didn't fly a watchmaker over from Switzerland after your emergency call, but in the real world you have a global warranty, the rest is about managing your own expectations.
The Rolex service center should have told him to take the watch back to the AD and get what he was legally entitled to. The OP made a mistake in taking the watch to Rolex and as far as I am concerned Rolex made a mistake in accepting it.
How to fix this? The OP should immediately get Rolex to return the watch to him. Then he should take the watch to the AD and receive a full refund or a new watch.
Interesting thread about customer service / satisfaction and managing expectations.
It's been pointed out several times about the Consumer Laws and the level of protection offered. The right to refunds etc.
Seems the OP is rightly upset at the perceived lack of enthusiasm displayed by the AD or the RSC having spent a lot of money on what turns out to be a watch with a fault, a fault that existed at the time of purchase. I suspect that the drive to the RSC was a slight knee jerk reaction to get it resolved quickly(?) This may have back fired slightly in that the AD has been circumnavigated out of the chain.
I believe that the sensible approach, which has been mentioned already, would be to go to the AD, speak to the Manager / Owner politely but in an assertive tone saying that you would appreciate them doing their best to speed up the process, that you're are upset and disappointed by the whole experience. Explaining that they are the customer facing part of Rolex and that as the retailer you would expect them to be doing their best to keep you happy. Then wait for the watch to be returned via the dealer.
Once the watch is returned inspect it thoroughly at the dealers premises. Check that the original fault has been fixed correctly, taking as much time as you need. Then check it for any other issues that may have occurred whilst it has been away. Use a loupe if necessary.
You have established that a fault existed when the watch was new, they, Rolex (which includes the dealer) have fixed it. You still have a level of protection under the Consumer Laws. Especially as the original fault existed and there's a risk of a further fault arising from the repair ie external damage / scratches.
Hopefully you'll not have to get all shirty with them and that once resolved you can enjoy your watch, as you should do
I don't think so.... You expect the OP to be some kind of expert who can, ascertain that the original fault has been fixed correctly and using a "loupe" check it for any other issues? Why not keep things simple and replace or refund the watch?
What if the OP purchased a faulty washing machine? Would you expect him to inspect it carefully to find out if the original fault had been fixed and check it for any other issues? Doesn't that sound a bit absurd? He would simply get the machine replaced with one that works.
Last edited by GrandS; 8th April 2016 at 09:59.
Here's the thing: to you and me (I impertinently assume) a £25K watch is a big purchase, possibly a once in a lifetime purchase. But to Rolex it's just one of the watches they sell a million a year of. If it's faulty, they fix it, and watches are complex and fragile things that can pick up faults in numerous ways. It's simply not a big deal to them. Whether you go through the AD or the service centre, they'll fix the watch, deal with you courteously, and you'll go away a happy customer again.
I sympathise with the OP and hope everything works out ok.
I purchased a Steinhart GMT recently and the seconds hand touched the minute hand if they coincided at about 12 o'clock. Emailed the supplier who replaced the watch immediately without question. That is what customer service should be - the watch cost £425.
Having read the post, though I emphasise with the OP regarding the fault, the advise given, albeit the same, just written differently is very sound.
In the past, my experiences in dealing with AD's when it has come to a faulty timepiece has varied differently.
But one that stood out, was from an independent dealer was amazing.
I bought an IWC Perpetual Calendar, an old model, that had no doubt been in a display cabinet for a looooong time. A couple of days later I noticed a couple of faults with, I contacted the dealer and spoke with the watch manager - who has since become a good friend, who sold me the watch. Without even arguing he said that he would be at my door at 08.00 hrs the following morning to collect it......................I was flabbergasted, never had I known such a service. For him, it was a round trip of over 400 miles and about 5-6 hrs in the car. He duly collected the watch and it was sent straight back to IWC, with a letter asking for the faults to be expedited!
Incidentally, I never saw the watch again, as while it was away, i bought my first Patek from him.............And so started the slippery slope LOL
it's not because it's a Rolex that costs thousants that you picked out a good AD. In my opinion it's all about the AD. If he is good for his customers he'll do his best to solve this problem. If not you are the victim of his lackness. Some AD's seem to solve problems better than others. They should have given jou a happy feeling. Now they have a dissatisfied customer and you'll probably never buy another thing from his shop. Plus, he gets bad publicity on this medium. Hope this turns out in a positive way for you!
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