For all concerned, Ken has agreed to return the deposit.
Good news.
Maybe we can now leave this as one of those unfortunate events, no lasting harm done to either side, move on and best wishes with future trades?
I just wish I had £8,500 for a Rolex (or any watch for that matter, come to think of it just having £8,500 would be nice....£
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That's probably overstating it a bit, but if only you had kept this to yourself in the first place, there would be no reputational damage at all. If you light the fuse on the bomb, you mustn't complain when you get hit by shrapnel.Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner
There's a lesson for us all here: no-one comes out of these he-said she-said disputes looking good. It doesn't matter if you're completely in the right: you still come across as angry and confrontational, and that casts a shadow. After a few days, no-one remembers the details of what happened: they just remember you were involved in some kind of dodgy transaction and forum drama and that is the memory that will linger.
Ken, wouldn't lose heart.
I think you are still well regarded by many.
Your contributions have been far more appreciated than those ( even long standing members) who just showed up to be part of this 'shake-down'. Let s not pretend otherwise. That is what it was- bullies on high horse who felt they needed to beat you into submission.
Forum spirit- my foot.
Real forum spirit is about standing up for what is right and not getting entrenched into an 'easy and superficially appealing' position of self righteous indignation and bullying.
Anyway- hope this comes to a rest and they feel happy.
A decent member having his name dragged through mud, vilified and forced to publicly agree to do what he intended to do all along, a time waster hats money back and escaped unscathed ( except some name calling) and self appointed arbiters of morality and 'good spirit' go home happy and chew on their cigars, patting themselves on their backs for upholding the forum spirit!
The ability to offload old underwear, used pornographic magazines and the occasional watch to an appreciative audience?
I suspect that getting your reputation back may be a little harder.
You can't get back what you never had...
FWIW I haven't dealt with Ken before, but I wouldn't hesitate to in future.
At least two members on here have held a watch for me for at least a month previously while I put my finances in order. A deposit was paid was paid in one instant, not in the other although I'd have been happy to. It would have been implicitly non-refundable regardless of circumstances. Some of us know each other better than we know others; if not, then precautions can be sensible, especially bearing in mind the OP's previous moronic posting history.
The forum was always about fun, not 'non refundable' deposits.
Somewhere along the way, some self appointed guardians have decided the rules of transaction. And the cabal has decided what constitutes 'time waster'
Time waster - such a dealer's language.
Interesting Statistic -
Two threads were posted yesterday at virtually the same times.
1. 2016 SOTC, posted by 11erv and in my opinion is one of the nicest, diverse, collections we have seen for some time an absolutely stunning collection.
TOTAL VIEWS - 747 TOTAL REPLIES - 31
2. Gentlemany, a tale of mystery and intrigue which plumbs the depths of human reasoning and at the same time putting a new twist on what is wrong or right.
TOTAL VIEWS - 3837 TOTAL REPLIES - 106
Funny old Forum innit!
Re: The forum was always about fun, not 'non refundable' deposits.
Not mutually exclusive.
The days of the forum being a bunch of mates are long gone.
Thousands of members with a bunch joining everyday.
Is never going to be like old days.
Still shouldn't stop us from identifying people who love the hobby, are upstanding and interesting and continue to be mates.
SC has evolved into a different place than before. We have to respect the change.
If Eddie wanted this to be just a group of back slapping chums, he would have had different rules for membership.
I'm new also and I fear that this sorry state of affairs will make it even harder for new members to take part in SC in the future......I sincerely hope not.
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Fair enough -for most parts.
It's just that I cannot associate members who love the hobby and are upstanding with members who speak of a 'non refundable' deposit.
That's just me, though. Possibly a minority, and thus time to go quiet.
Firstly, I would like to sincerely thank those who have shown support for me during the last 24 hours - it is very much appreciated. To the rest, I do hope you are not called to do jury service anytime soon.
The refund has been made - the buyer now has his money back. For those quick to say I should have done it immediately and without question, when a payment is received via faster payments (bank transfer) you only see a name, a reference and an amount - you do not see the bank details. Therefore as explained many times here, I could not refund the money until I was given the bank details.
The watch has now been sold and as a goodwill gesture to the buyer for having the confidence to deal with me whilst this was going on I slashed £400.00 off the asking price.
I agree this sorry saga should never have gone public and it wasn't me who put it there, but hopefully this puts an end to it.
Hopefully, I will be left in peace to enjoy my joke watch - which I absolutely love. Picture below for anyone not sure what a joke / comic watch looks like.
image uploading site
Well done Ken, alls well that ends well! Now can I put a deposit on the comedy watch - love it!
Straight swop for that big red Daytona ?
Well said.
I don't know Ken and have had no dealings with him but there is nothing in this thread that would put me off any future dealings.
Professionally I regularly charge people who waste my time and have no issue with this.
Magsal - your main mistake was starting this thread, but it will sink down the list in a few days.
If an item gets relisted quickly a quick reason helps the resale and someone failing to complete a purchase needs a simple explanation - nothing wrong with the item on sale.
Man I love the snoopy!
Me too, what a lovely thing to look at!
Nope, it is human nature. Why do people watch car racing? 10% are racing connoisseurs and get their kicks from watching and analyzing driving technique and car innovations. The rest watch to see the crashes. I like to see the lovely watches that some forum members post, but I get my laughs from observing the crashes.
Farting in the lift again? Tiresome.
Don't know about jury duty but glad this has ended. Would not deal with the prospective buyer but glad you sorted things out.Firstly, I would like to sincerely thank those who have shown support for me during the last 24 hours - it is very much appreciated. To the rest, I do hope you are not called to do jury service anytime soon.
The refund has been made - the buyer now has his money back. For those quick to say I should have done it immediately and without question, when a payment is received via faster payments (bank transfer) you only see a name, a reference and an amount - you do not see the bank details. Therefore as explained many times here, I could not refund the money until I was given the bank details.
The watch has now been sold and as a goodwill gesture to the buyer for having the confidence to deal with me whilst this was going on I slashed £400.00 off the asking price.
I agree this sorry saga should never have gone public and it wasn't me who put it there, but hopefully this puts an end to it.
Hopefully, I will be left in peace to enjoy my joke watch - which I absolutely love. Picture below for anyone not sure what a joke / comic watch looks like.
image uploading site
I think its time someone put the kettle on, and we all sit down and have a cuppa, no one was killed or injured and alls well that ends well,
I personally would deal with both party's in future no problem, and I suspect lessons have been learnt on both sides.
one thing remains for me though, the buyer had £400 slashed off the price, how about this buyer sticking a nifty fifty in the fundraiser just to even the Karma here?
Please don't start on the new buyer, he is a good guy in my opinion and has my total respect - let's not start making demands on him - thank you.
I think I will be following the example of this fine gentleman:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/watc...3129010-6.html
"Thank you, Mitch. You have restored my faith in the forum with your sane post. I think the people who are suggesting that Mr. P is a scammer without any evidence to support their view and furthermore suggesting that the OP should keep the Rolex should take a long hard look at themselves. I am taking down names for future reference and guess what, I will never ever deal with that kind of people."
Last edited by GrandS; 2nd May 2016 at 22:57.
I have confidence in dealing with you, Ken. So as a gesture of goodwill will you knock, say, £4K off that Snoopy and sell it to me please?Firstly, I would like to sincerely thank those who have shown support for me during the last 24 hours - it is very much appreciated. To the rest, I do hope you are not called to do jury service anytime soon.
The refund has been made - the buyer now has his money back. For those quick to say I should have done it immediately and without question, when a payment is received via faster payments (bank transfer) you only see a name, a reference and an amount - you do not see the bank details. Therefore as explained many times here, I could not refund the money until I was given the bank details.
The watch has now been sold and as a goodwill gesture to the buyer for having the confidence to deal with me whilst this was going on I slashed £400.00 off the asking price.
I agree this sorry saga should never have gone public and it wasn't me who put it there, but hopefully this puts an end to it.
Hopefully, I will be left in peace to enjoy my joke watch - which I absolutely love. Picture below for anyone not sure what a joke / comic watch looks like.
image uploading site
Glad all's ended well.
I for one don't feel this episode has affected Ken whatsoever.
Thank you Toby and for your very kind offer to relieve me of my Snoopy. A watch incidentally that has put me in a difficult predicament. I was so convinced that I wouldn't actually get hold of the Snoopy that I had the new Baselworld premiered blue Speedmaster Co-axial moon phase all lined up instead when it hits the shops in October.
Now that I have the Snoopy - I still want the moon phase. See what you bu**ers have done to me.
I keep telling myself to forget about it and go after a Smiths Everest or a Steinhart Vintage instead - watches that you don't have to sell you soul to own, but that doesn't help.
Is there detox for watch buyers ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/firstworldproblems/
:-)
Absolutely spot on, don't need or want it now - thanks Toby.
Lovely Snoopyand glad to see a positive outcome eventually. Although if you'd done your homework you would never have taken the deal.
I thought for a while you would have to throw yourself onto your sword, or be thrown....
What could I do in 14 seconds? Probably start a disparaging thread about someone.
Completely agree - wonderful thing hindsight. Next time (if there is a next time) in that scenario, let the buyer pay in full and hold the watch until they return from holiday or pass on the sale altogether if they are not comfortable with that.Lovely Snoopy
I thought for a while you would have to throw yourself onto your sword, or be thrown....
And either way, refrain from bitching about them on the sales thread.
Just for sake of clarity, correct me if I'm wrong.
The seller stated they would reduce the sale price to reflect the deposit or leave the sale price as is and donate the £500 to the fundraiser. Those were the options given to the buyer.
I don't see how these two options clarify the seller's intentions to refund the deposit if they had the buyer's bank details. Unless of course it was to force the original arrangement?
Secondly, not far in to the thread, certain people were also trying to justify the seller keeping the deposit after siding with the seller and enforcing the 'strung along' by the buyer argument.
The buyer mentioned some significant personal reasons to go back on the sale. An assumption therefore was made with very little compassion for the buyer's situation and also quite a disgusting one sided attack in order to justify keeping the deposit. Some lovely fella also implied it would be good to see proof of the death.
Quite a thread.
It's a shame that this could not have been resolved between the two parties privately and off forum
Put a freakin bow on it and move on instead of rehashing same stuff that has been said before.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Totally agree Raj.
Enough is enough, let the matter be closed.
Bodo,
When I received the PM from the buyer pulling out of the deal no mention of the deposit or a refund was made.
The thread was started soon after and the tone adopted by the buyer seemed to suggest that he thought that he had lost his money - the above was a sarcastic response from me, probably in poor taste with hindsight.
During this time I did not have the bank details. I sent a PM to buyer, got his bank details and refunded his money.
You will have hopefully picked up that despite the sarcastic comment about using the buyers money to reduce the asking price of the watch, it was heavily reduced for the new buyer.
Ken
Anyway, after all that.......... a Deposit is normally returnable and can be asked to be returned, which is why I use the term Booking Fee or Retainer for my business as its non returnable..
So in the future if someone asks for a retainer on a watch dont expect to get it back.
As for the buyer and seller in this one I wouldnt have an issue in dealing with either, I would say it's a shame it went "public" but it made good reading.. glad your both amicable
Ok sorry for bringing it all up again. Thanks for addressing my post, Ken.
It was more some of the other comments that made me want to say something. I possibly shouldn't have.
BR
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