Reply With Quote700NM sounds like a monster :)
Good to get some information about the glow plugs and thermostats too, which might have off-set a future problem.
We have had our X5 e70 35d for just over 3 years now and it has been such a reliable nice motor to drive. Decided to look at getting it remapped a while ago and decided against it but recently this was back in my mind to do.
Rang a few people and looked at a few options - re-chip, new map or Bluefin being some of the options. A couple of the firms seemed very wooly about what they do/could do and were almost 'it's up to you really' which was not hugely helpful TBH.
I finally went with a strong recommendation from some of the UK BMW forums and Simon from E-Maps arrived today to work his magic.
First job was to check if the car had any error codes or issues recorded on the system that might need addressing - there were 4 errors logged which were 4 of the 6 glow plugs showing errors. Nothing to immediately worry about and it would not prevent the remap.
Second job was to check if the car was running the standard map - it was, so all good (TBH I would have been surprised if this was not the case).
Onto the remap - the cars original map was downloaded, followed by the upload of the new map - all good and off for a road test. Felt immediately different but Simon said that was partly down to the gearbox being reset during the map load and a few miles would see it adapt. The road test had a laptop plugged in sat on Simons lap in the passenger seat looking at various live data streams (torque, BHP, temperature, throttle position etc.). After a few miles of warm up we took a decent road to give the car it's legs.......
All I can say is WOW - it was significantly different, much more oomph which it holds for longer before upshifting. A very different car indeed - BHP up from 285 to 350 BHP. Torque up from 580 Nm to 700Nm. Very pleased!!.
The road run revealed something that is connected to the glow plug errors mentioned earlier............
The car temperature fluctuated around 75 -77 Deg. C and dropped below 70 Deg when we were hoofing it - this indicates a problem with the thermostats (there are 2) which are sticking open - it should sit around 88 Deg C. The connection with the glow plugs is that as part of the emissions controls on the car the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system refreshes itself when the system reaches a certain amount of contamination from the exhaust gasses. In order to do this the engine is run at it's highest operating temperature for a short period to burn the contamination off - part of the process of getting to the higher temperature involves powering the glow plugs (even when they are not needed) to help the temperature being achieved. This shortens the life of the glow plugs particularly when the car has sticky thermostats.
Net result is we now have a rocketship that needs some new glow plugs and a couple of thermostats.
Very informative and beneficial day - can wholeheartedly recommend Simon @ E-Maps.
Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 23rd May 2016 at 21:19.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
700NM sounds like a monster :)
Good to get some information about the glow plugs and thermostats too, which might have off-set a future problem.
It's just a matter of time...
Interesting, Chris. Does it hugely impact on insurance costs? Much effect on mpg expected?
Cheers
Foggy
It does if you tell themOriginally Posted by Foggy
Mate had similar on his 2007 530 and said the new performance was remarkable!
Enjoy your new car :-)
Not had the conversation with the insurance company yet but I am assured it would be difficult to tell if anything had been done to the car.
MPG will be the same but should improve when I get the thermostat/glow plug issue sorted as the thermostats are causing the engine to run around 10 degrees cooler than it should.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Thanks Chris - that's good to know about the being difficult to detect bit. I have often wondered on this. Time to google what options I have on my motor, or what motor I should be buying next :-)
Cheers
Foggy
Sounds like a great result, sorry to put a downer on things but you really should let your insurance company know, I have had remapped cars in the past and it doesn't add a great deal (if any) to your premium.
Remaps are difficult to detect to you or I, but insurance company's employ specialists and if the worst was to happen they will go over your car with a fine tooth comb and WILL be able to detect a remap.
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sounds like a great day spent!! enjoy
I remember me and a mate driving home in his Astra VXR after a day at Courtney Turbos having a remap... Was a very fun drive home.
Cheers..
Jase
Great story Chris! Very timely for me as the wife's X6 4.0d is out of BMW warranty and was thinking of the same. I'll give Simon a yell on your recommendation, nice one!!
Well worth it - nice chap and very knowledgable.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
So a man with a laptop can check if the map on the car is standard "or not" and you think BMW (or any insurer) can't also do the same?
There are at least 3 places in E70's which hold data you (and a man with a laptop) cannot access for the purposes of fraud detection, eg mileage "correction", fiddling with maps, disabling safety systems etc.
If your car is written off the insurance assessors will be checking if there is anything recorded to registers you don't even know about, and there is a very serious risk they will not pay out if they find undeclared modifications. There is a timestamp with any changes made so as you're the current owner, guess what? They'll know it happened while you had it, so claims of "never knew/ was like it while I bought it", do not fly.
So basically, you are not currently insured.
This sounds entirely plausible. Insurance companies will do their best to minimise their outgoings, so maybe sensible to mention this sort of thing.
Risk versus return.....
The question that never seems to decline in relevance or popularity?
Really, did he tell you about car modifications and insurance.
If you’re already insured when you make changes to your car, you should tell your insurer. Failing to do so would lead to your policy being invalidated – it’s not enough to let the insurer know you own a modified car when you come to renew.
Did you ask them if the policy would allow the modification in the first place, obviously not, you just went ahead and done it without regard.
Top reasons for the upsurge in refused claims
undisclosed convictions
"fronting", where people try to cut premiums by misleading insurers over who is the main driver (especially where a young or inexperienced person is the main driver)
failing to tell insurers about previous claims
failing to tell insurers about modifications made to the car
providing a false address where the car is kept
Cheers, you just cost every correctly insured driver £33 on our car insurance.
You get the reward we get the risk.
To hopefully put this one to bed and reassure the pricks in my conscience.
I have just had the conversation with the insurance company who were more than accommodating and happy to note this in my schedule of cover for the reminder of the policy for £30 plus a £35 admin fee.
Shame some people don't read things carefully before they vomit.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I've heard lots of good things about the ?35d engine remap and I'm considering having my 335d done too. Currently enjoying the performance in stock mode but it's a case of "No matter what you have, you always want more...." or as I prefer. "You can never have too much of a good thing"
I think a scan of your schedule is in order, or at the very least the confirmation email....
;o) :D
Anyway, yes, a good remapper can transform a car and yours sounds like a good one.
I've got my BMW mapped, along with an uprated intercooler, but it's the BMW Performance Power Kit version as it's still under factory warranty and that's the only way to keep it intact. BMW insurance didn't charge any more to insure it either.
Thinking about it, I've mapped my last six cars, all BMW, Audi or VW, it does feel like you're getting something for nothing.
Interesting post. I've thought about remapping my e91 BMW 330d auto for a while now but its coming up for 11 years old with 112k on the clock so I'm not sure it's a good idea - would I just be asking for trouble? The Turbo was replaced last year anyway but would the risk of trashing the gearbox, etc be greatly increased?
Also I had the same problem with thermostats as the OP, it's a very common fault. I had the main thermostat replaced first but this made no difference so I requested that the second (EGR) thermostat be replaced. A BMW technician swore blind that replacing this stat would make no difference to engine temps but I insisted and it fixed the problem!
This issue can cause the Diesel Particulate Filter to be blocked as if the engine isn't getting up to temperature it won't initiate a regeneration of the DPF.
didn't VW remap all our cars without telling us !!!! Suspect the insurers won't use that one as a reason to repudiate
I did a Superchips remap on my BMW 635d back in 2010 when I had it, it was a revelation, it was insane pulling from 50mph in 4th gear
My insurers didn't want anything extra when I informed them of an upcoming remap. Incidentally Simon was to do it but I cancelled as I subsequently sold my car.
Very tempted to do my 535d which would make 360bhp / 720nm but it is still under warranty and I don't want to invalidate it. The daft thing is, in sport mode with the gearbox nudged left, the car is a veritable rocket and I can barely use all the performance in normal driving conditions, all that extra power and torque may seem excessive.
I suspect mine were taking money 'because they could'.
I am happy with the upgrade - very addictive!.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Fixed that for you.
Had this done to an E90 330d manual that I used to own. That went from 230bhp to 295bhp and fuel economy went from 38mpg to 42mpg. I can relate to that first drive, your car suddenly feels like it has an extra turbo.
Remapped my 335d to 350 hp a few years ago too. Was a really noticeable change and couldn't stop smiling with every press of the right pedal. Fuel economy stayed roughly the same as extra torque meant less kickdowns to a lower gear when accelerating from 60mph so that helped offset the additional "launching" from a standstill! As you mentioned it's not a great deal extra premium on insurance .. And some mappers offer an engine warranty for extra peace of mind too
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Hope you cleared this falsification of my comment with your union solicitor?............Fixed that for you.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Thinking of getting my X5 E70 30D re-mapped - just not sure how risky it is (in terms of extra stress on gearbox and transfer box)
I'm actually not looking for more power, just for it to be a bit more responsive from standstill/overtaking - it's plenty quick enough once the gearbox decides to drop down a gear (oh and hopefully better economy.....)
The chap I used is very knowledgable and importantly will not remap beyond the torque limit for the particular gearbox that is fitted. This is why mine was limited to 700Nm as it was the manufacturer limit (ZF) for the gearbox.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I had my Imprezza remapped back in 2000ish, thing went like a cut snake after as it finally made use of the other mods. Of course soon after the cap-on-backwards lot all moved in on those cars and the market went downhill. This year I finally bought another one and would love to chip this down the line, but for now im just enjoying it as FHI intended.
Chris, you will find the MPG gets better at the same time the performance goes up. This does make you really question why cars come with the tunes they do from the factory :/ (that rhetorical of course, we all know about noise/pollution maps now)
Am I the only one wondering how by driving down the road with a laptop plugged in this guy knew the bhp and ft/lb's the engine was producing.....
I did ask - the ECU 'requests' a given value from the engine/turbo's based on the throttle pedal position. The readouts are those 'requests'.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
But, of course, you aren't.
The car manufacturers use a map which is a compromise between power/reliability/emissions/mpg/etc.
If you change to a map which gives you (for example) greater performance, then there will be a corresponding reduction in some other area. That might well be something that you don't care about (perhaps mpg), or that will take a long time to manifest itself (e.g. reliability), but you don't get anything for nothing in this life.
I d take those figures with a pinch of salt then.
The only way you ll know what power a engine is making is by either using a engine dyno or a rolling road anything else is just pure guess work. But hey the guys got a give you some figures to get paid...
The figures I quoted are dyno figures, the laptop comment was part of the afternoon of work and to try and inform others of what was a good informative process.
If you have something better to do other than attempting to pi$$ on my post I would rather you did it.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I thought that most motor manufacturers did universal maps for anywhere in the world so it will work with crappy fuel at different altitudes and the like so there should be room for improvement without compromise to the engine or components. I do agree that telling your insurance is a must. I couldn't see them not paying out to a third party in any case just that the insurer may be horlixed.
Anyway have fun. Just took delivery of a 125 and it's plenty fast enough for an old git like me.
This, many engines are under stressed for reliability in sub optimal conditions, i.e. poor servicing regimes, super high mileages, poor fuel, adverse weather (extreme heat) etc. so extracting a little more is not in any way detrimental to reliability used in optimal conditions like we have in the UK.
Indeed - the remap I have had done has only taken the torque up to the manufacturers specified maximum for the gearbox. I was mindful of longevity and serviceability during the process. I have no figures on fuel consumption (good or bad) yet but will brim the tank next time I fill up and do the same again to check. I was previously getting 26mpg across 15k miles.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Aren't you a gloomy one!
Remapping seems to bring out the pedant in people, but I think you know what I was trying to say.
It 'feels' like it, in the sense that you get a more powerful car than the one you purchased. Yes, it isn't free, but it's a modest outlay compared to a more powerful car. The VW Polo GT mapped easily to GTI levels, and many prefer the understated looks of the GT. I had the GTI version which when mapped was quicker then the Golf GTI.
My current 120d XDrive now has a similar output to the 125d (which isn't available with AWD either) and as it's a BMW approved modification, they can worry about any reliability issues. In fact, that map has changed more than just the headline power figures, the whole power and torque curves have changed making it much more enjoyable to drive.
I remapped my old S3 when it had done 20,000 miles, from 225bhp to 270bhp, and it was still going strong on the original turbo and clutch when I sold it at 165,000 miles. It also returned slightly better mpg after the remap. I have similar stories with my old S2, A4 quattro, 320d, A3 quattro and S3..
It's getting harder for companies to remap engines though, manufacturers are getting better at encrypting the maps, but the tuners find a way in most cases and in any event there are always the reputable tuning box companies like TMC or JB4 that use piggy back modules.
Done correctly and with the right maintenance though, I'm struggling to see any downsides.
By the sounds of it, you should also know that rolling roads are more variable than engines anyway... How well calibrated are most of them?
Unless you're doing before and after on the same rolling road, any after figures should also be taken with a pinch of salt and still may not accurately reflect the power the car was making in the first place. Some tuners rollers are notorious for reading high, and it suits them.
I used to measure the mass air flow on my S3, and convert that into BHP, and although a rough measure it was surprisingly accurate. The stock maps in a car relate back to the power it should be making when new, in Germany in particular there is legislation that a car must make what it is advertised as having, and you can get a very good idea what power and torque is being made by measuring requests vs actual on road runs.
If data shows it's meeting the map requests, then you can be reasonably certain it's making the power.
My friend does remaps and some of things he has to do to by pass the ECU etc is mind boggling (turning the steering wheel each way, reving the car etc). Had our S Max done and returns better MPG.
Another friend had their RS6 remapped which is now a complete beast, but the revs limited in 1st and 2nd gears, when giving it, to maintain the gearbox so not to strip anything.
I had no idea that re-mapping was ever approved by manufacturers. Did BMW do it themselves or do they have a set of approved providers?
The triple turbo M50d puts 740nm through the same 8HP70 as standard.
Safe exhaust temps and timing are most important when tuning a diesel engine. If a safe map has been developed on a healthy engine in a control environment it's fine to download onto other cars with perhaps a slight fuel pressure curve tweak on the road. OEM ECU's are all pre programmed and identical after all, occasionally with a blanket software re flash available during a dealer service, usually for emissions or drivability improvements.
The best results are to be had from a rolling road live map, but that costs more and most people don't need the last half HP squeezing out of their engines.
Of course using the same rolling road for both before and after is a must. Your right about some dyno especially the old coast down ones being way out of calibration and more than a tad opermistic in some cases. I find the dyno dynamics rolling roads are by far the most reliable and consistent ( much to the disappointment of some bhp queens)
BMW do it, any official dealer. I actually sourced the intercooler and replacement ECU coded for my car from a German BMW dealership and got a local dealer to fit it and code everything. The latter cost about 2 hours labour.
Not every BMW has a Performance Power Kit available for it, but quite a few do.
There's a link to them on the BMW website.
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