Reply With QuoteE34,E39,E60?
For some reason i have been dreaming about the above.
Before i get myself all worked up and start saving like a lunatic, can any owners or prior owners out there give me their view? I have a wife and a small kid so essentially this will be used to ferry around the vomit machine that is my daughter but that's the same with any car I am going to get.
I live in Geneva so for me, my commute to work will be very short depending on traffic. It's those weekend trips to Italy and France that I am really thinking about. Thanks for your comments.
E34,E39,E60?
I was in Ocean BMW in Plymouth a couple of weeks ago and they had £24k off a delivery mileage M5.
I guess the wheel is on the wrong side though.
New model coming this year, talk of an xdrive option. Should lower the used prices a little.
I put a deposit on one and test drove a couple in November 2015, they were very very quick and should be with close to 600bhp but I felt it would wear me down as a daily driver, it was too frenetic and not calming enough when I just wanted to bumble around which is 80% of the time.
Same thoughts echoed by my aircon installer friend, Rick, he has had one 6 months and wants to move it on, says he feels like it is always trying to kill him, he came from a C63 and wants to go back, he says the AMG's allow you to switch off hooligan mode whereas the M5 does not.
I know they're considerably sub £30k now and tempting, they are incredible machines but not a propery Jekyl & Hyde drive like some of the best performance cars can be.
I think the "hooligan" side of the car is due to the high torque at low rpm and rear wheel drive. The C63 and even the E60 M5 need to be revved to get the power out of them. The RS6 is probably a more "sensible" option (if there's such a thing for a 600bhp exec car).
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E39 . Last of the old school m5s.
Best choice. Buy the best and you won't go wrong. Buy cheap and be prepared to lose your shirt.Originally Posted by notnowkato
Depends on the model/your budget.
E34 - very few out there and even fewer good ones - not really daily driver material!
E39 - getting rarer and popularity (build quality) means prices are firm for decent ones and very high for good ones. A lot of dogs out there too. Again not really daily driver candidates. They seem to be rarer on the mainland than in the UK
E60 - buy with care - the DSG clutch seems to expire between 50-60k and it's a £3k repair so either get low mileage or one that's been done (receipted!). Superb to drive , but on your commute expect 15 mpg. Can be got in E61 tourer versions - but they're rare.
F10 - a big car and big step forward technologically, better mpg. Not sure what folk mean about it's driving - they have a power button which knock on/off 100bhp and very placid to drive 'normally'.
Massive service and repair bills on any of them!
Second-hand information granted, but I know two former M5 owners (E60) and both said the same thing - it's a mechanical masterpiece and when driven to it's capabilities, it's something very special indeed. But you just can't do that 99.9% of the time and what you're left with is a slightly worse version of an otherwise very good car, in that it's not easy to drive or as relaxing as a normal 5-Series, it's terrible on fuel and it's expensive to maintain. They also came to the same conclusion as each other - buy the highest powered diesel version you can get, as you'll get a long way towards the performance, with none of the downsides.
I tend to agree with those who say the M5 is too much of a good thing. You can drive them placidly (at least the newer ones that I have driven), but why would you want to do that when you bought it for it's excesses?
As an everyday car you do need to be VERY aware that it will try to kill you at every opportunity if you let it. Wheelspin is available in the dry in most of the gears and the parts, tyres and brakes are very expensive to replace. Realistically, how often are you going to use any of the performance and even more realistically are you a good enough driver ALL of the time to stay on top of it?
Have you considered an MX-5?
Spend the remainder on an ND Sub and size 7 shoes.*
OK, serious answer is get the M5. Then buy a cheap daily driver to bimble around in. That way, you'll scratch the itch and only need to drive it when you feel like it.
Life is too short to be sensible in all your choices.
*Sorry, I'd be letting the forum down if I didn't at least suggest this option.
Just to confuse you further - have you considered Alpina? Same performance in a smart tailored suit. Better residuals generally.
Thats exactly what a friend did, he got a 335d M Sport and got it remapped and said it was a monster for performance but then as its a diesel can return decent MPG and lower tax etc.
I'd love an E39 but not as a daily.
A mate bought a nearly new, fully loaded E60 which he did drive daily, albeit mainly short journeys. It was apparently low teens MPG and depreciation was horrifying when he came to sell.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Not sure if GQ is still around but I think he had an older M5 - might be in the 'What do you drive' thread if you do a search.
I've had both an E34 and an E39 M5 as daily drivers. Fantastic cars, but you really need to have BMW's extended warranty on them and realise that maintenance and repair bills are geared towards what the car cost when it was new, rather than what you can buy one for now.
I sold my E39 about 18 months ago (and at 47k miles) as I wasn't comfortable using it as a daily any more. Currently have a GT86 as a daily driver - cheap as chips to run (relative to the M5), and just as much fun in the real world, even though it obviously doesn't have the hooligan clout of the M5.
*apologies for slight thread drift*
^PK, how does the GT86 compare with your Z4?
I'm wondering if it could replace an S2000 as I need extra seats.
The rear seats in the GT86 are token at best - you probably wouldn't want to do any distance with even children in the back, unless everybody has very short legs :-) For comparison, the rear seats in my 911 Carrera 3.2 were much more practical!
In terms of driving, the two cars feel to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. The Z4MR relied on (relatively) huge amounts of power - it used the same engine as the E46 M3 in a lighter body - to do everything, whereas the GT86 feels much more nimble and flexible, though obviously without the same overtaking grunt as the Z4M. For a change, I used my E93 M3 for my usual 60-mile round trip commute last Friday, and in the real world it was no quicker (and no more fun to drive) than the GT86 which I normally use.
Having had a few "powerful" cars, I'm actually really enjoying the driving experience of the GT86 - it reminds me a bit of the Porsche 924/(24S/944 family - low seating position, very accurate steering, great balance and roadholding. It also feels fast at legal-ish speeds, whereas the M5/Z4M/911/M3 all seem a bit pedestrian below about 120mph, at which point you are thinking more about keeping your licence and liberty than your driving. Not good.
My only issue with the GT86 is the Michelin Primacies that are fitted as standard - they have given me a couple of scares recently, even on the straight. I've no problem with losing the rear end, but I'd like to know when it's about to happen and the Primacies give no warning, especially in cold weather. There's a set of Yokohama V105S's being fitted on Saturday morning, so I'll be interested to see whether they make any difference.
Apologies for also going off topic - perhaps the OP will now think of getting a GT86 rather than an M5? :-)
Have you checked the oil in the diff?
^Thanks PK - appreciate the detailed analysis.
I'll cover Philip's tab for any thread drift penalties.
Not yet. Toyota's recommendation is to change it at 48 months or 20,000 miles (my car is 41 months and 17k miles, so getting close). If the Yokohamas don't improve things, then I'll try an early change, but a number of other people on the GT86 forums have also reported similar issues with the Primacies in cold weather.
I can understand the back end going out on a wet roundabout, but not when accelerating - in a straight line - down a motorway slip road! As I said, it's the lack of progressiveness that's the issue - there's no warning. Yes, the electronic nannies on the car pick it all up quickly, but that's not the point.
(I can stay off topic, as AlphaOmega is paying!)
Which model are you looking at?
I had an E60 M5 when they first came out, cracking car but I feel if I got in it now it would feel very dated!
If looking at brand new or near new have you also considered the RS6? I bought one just before Christmas and it is IMMENSE! A big comfy family cruiser that will blow most supercars away at the lights, I cannot recommend it enough.
I've had loads of //M cars and do keep coming back to them (most recently an M4) but I have now come to the conclusion that living where we do (and especially me as I live on Anglesey) all that power to the rear wheels is just pointless apart from on a very rare nice day, yes you can get some arse out action and have some fun but how often?
Now I'm a "family man" and my little girl is getting bigger by the day the RS6 suits perfectly and I still can't get my head around how flipping fast the thing is!
I drive an F10 M5. Have put over 20k miles on it in the last year, I love it!
So much power there, great for when I'm driving on my own. Also super comfortable for the Mrs and my little lad.
I have pretty much every option specced on mine and it makes a huge difference. Test drove a few poverty spec cars and things like the 360 cameras are pretty handy.
If you have any specific questions let me know and I will do my best to answer.
2 weeks ago I bought an E39 M5. So far so good. Nice to be back in a N/A car. PM me if you'd like some pointers.
Ian
We want some pics.....or it didn't happen ;-)
Come on OP, throw us a bone. Is the budget 8k or 80k?.
FWIW, about six years ago I was seriously considering a E39. Back then 10k would have bought a nice sub 60k miler with FSH, so I started lurking on the forums to learn all about them. There was one guy who bought one used approved from a BMW main dealer. Over the next 12 months it had seen over 20k worth of warranty work and he sold it in month 13 when the warranty expired. It kinda put me off them a bit....
I think this demonstrates more the fact the car had been abused than how reliable they are. You shouldn't expect to run any performance car on a shoestring budget. FWIW a few years ago I bought an E46 M3 with 5 previous owners, and luckily a warranty. I copped for all the abuse that that car had had, and the AUC warranty covered it. Once it was fixed it gave me little trouble and was good fun, but I always budgeted for the extended warranty and later, once expired, unexpected repairs just in case.
I guess you have to go into these things with eyes open and a checklist of what you want eg. complete service stamps, other receipts/invoices, an inspection on a ramp etc etc. I shortlisted a few E39 M5s before I found mine, and despite a massive file I still had it on a ramp and plugged in, and it appears to be a good 'un...
Back on OT - some idea of budget OP would be useful!
Ian
Very kind of you thank you - i may take you up on that!
This is such a useful summary thank you for putting it out there!
You know what though. The more I read this thread, the more I think I a not a good enough driver to merit this car. It really does seem like a performance beast. A buddy has an F10 in London and will be going on an advanced drivers course for power cars (or something similar). He's not stupid and knows that you almost need to be trained to handle a car like this. I may have to do the same.
I guess my budget would be around 30k and as i'm in Switzerland all the cars here tend to come fully loaded so that's a plus.
I think the only sensible thing to do would be to have a few test drives. Drive my buddy's one when i am back in the UK and take it from there.
If that is the case, with a car like this I presume you have a good budget planned for speeding fines as well as Switzerland is brutal for picked up speeding tickets!!
Last edited by JP28; 19th February 2017 at 22:43.
Where on earth do you guys drive your cars. My wife and I both have little runabouts, me a new 1.5 Sports Nav MX5, her, the current model of the Mini Cooper S. about 150 and 190 BHP respectively. We both try to curtail our speeding yet seem to be constantly waiting for the postie to drop the dreaded brown envelope through the letter box.
Nowadays I have a Sat Nav flashing warning signs some wretched woman telling me I'm over the speed limit, then she bleats on about speed cameras. I spend 10% of my time looking at the road, the other 90% looking at the speedo or for cameras the Sat Nav might have missed.
In both cars a little lack of concentration results in speeds way above limits.
So I ask, where do you guys drive, other then the lounge bar.:)
I don't know much about M5s but I do have an F80 M3 currently. I use the M3 Cutters forum and there is plenty of chat about M5s on there. They are reckoned to be absurdly quick in a straight line and they are certainly rated as a car. I think values are wobbly right now given the new model is coming...that would make for some much more attractive deals on the current model.
An M3 will give you 4 usable seats. Plus I have always seen the M3 as 'the' M car. Performance-wise, it is staggering. Grip is an issue unless it's dry, so you just have to drive it with care, which is no bad thing. It can go from beat to family car at the flick of a switch.
Quite nice looking too:
Last edited by mjrennie; 20th February 2017 at 09:38.
I was very ginger in mine for the first 6 months or so. I'm just about at the point now, where I can hammer it and keep it under control, but it's not easy - and that's after a few track days. I haven't had any formal training though, and my car progression was Fiat Punto -> 116i -> 330i -> M5.
As long as you don't go crazy from the moment you get it, you'll be fine. Stay away from M1 and M2 until you're used to it, too - there's more than enough power in economy comfort mode.
The E39 is a great car. The M5 is obviously incredible but it's also worth considering a 540i.
This thread is refreshingly different to the 'Speeding' thread with the Skodaaa/Jazzzz drivers comparing how slow they can go
Whereas I have always thought of it as the "kiddie's" choice of M-car, whereas the M5 is the grown-up choice. (If they made a convertible M5, I wouldn't currently own an M3!)
It undoubtedly is, but even the last of them will be pushing 13+ years old now so it might not make the best choice as a daily driver.
I've driven the F10 M5 and it is essentially 2 cars in 1: you can tootle to the shops in it or press the M button and it turns into a real beast. I don't think you need lessons to explore most of its potential because its full of all sorts of gizmos to keep you pointing in the right direction, plus, where would you do that legally and safely on the public road? But if you want to drive it near or at the limit then of course you will be doing daft speeds and yes, some sort of handling and tuition course would be wise. My advice would be go get one!
Interesting thread. I own the E39 M5 and use it as a daily. Have owned since 2000, I clearly like it and is my daily driver. Albeit I don't do the any serious mileage with commuting. Religiously serviced with all preventative maintenance, fluid changes and the like, and 'touch wood' she served me well. Docile in the day, and once you flick the sports button she wants to play. Level of grip with Pilot Sports 2 tyres is great. Though when I was going to Edinburgh this last weekend (pic below) you have to have some respect when roads are damp.
Factory single pot sliding front calipers are woefully inadequate for an M car. What were BMW thinking, I suppose their accountants governed that at the time. 4 pot Brembos and grooved big brake discs all round is certainly a massive improvement and gives you the confidence to push hard into a corner. I have no other mods, complete standard car other than the Brembo brakes.
Not driven any other M5's so unable to compare sorry, but being a true manual experience she's a keeper alright!! :)
All I can say is that you can ask for anything you want with an E39. I went on a road trip to Spa and the Nordschleife (track time) & Autobahns last Sep with some fast AMG Mercs & 911's and the M5 didn't disgrace herself, and I can nip down to the chippy & off licence in the evening and she's docile as anything.
You just been driving in Bedworth ? Sure it was this m3 ? Looked greatI don't know much about M5s but I do have an F80 M3 currently. I use the M3 Cutters forum and there is plenty of chat about M5s on there. They are reckoned to be absurdly quick in a straight line and they are certainly rated as a car. I think values are wobbly right now given the new model is coming...that would make for some much more attractive deals on the current model.
An M3 will give you 4 usable seats. Plus I have always seen the M3 as 'the' M car. Performance-wise, it is staggering. Grip is an issue unless it's dry, so you just have to drive it with care, which is no bad thing. It can go from beat to family car at the flick of a switch.
Quite nice looking too:
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